The Chosen Ones Have Been Announced

This drives me nuts. I can put in a tremendous amount of work, build a business, and be noticed in a sea of people. And STILL say that an opportunity shouldn't be handed to me just because someone liked something I did.

That is quite the opposite - if you think about it - of wanting something handed to me on a platter. It is in fact NOT wanting something handed to me on a platter.

Opportunities should be made available to all - and THEN the one who is chosen can reap the benefits of the attention, etc.

There is nothing to be lost, and everything to be gained - for all parties - of having opportunities open to everyone.

This advisory committee is just another example of that. They could have publicized it, taken applications for it, and still chosen who they want. Chances are they would have discovered some people very valuable for them that way. A win-win situation for all.

Choosing people like the Claw in Toy Story - for anything - isn't good for them OR for us.

coco

Hi All - Long time No see.

Goodness the SL community has been busy while the Lightclouds have been gone into dealing with RL. Just thought I would poke my head in the room to see if any shit was stirring- and I found this thread! Weeee! A few days ago there was barely a dull roar.

Now I see you all have worked up another one of the "good old days" forum dramas. Thanks for that, I was getting homesick a bit and thought you all were sleeping. Good to see the emotions still running high. Enjoying the name calling, the conspiracy theories, and endless speculations on what LL should or could be doing. Good work. Ahhhh never a dull moment.

For those who dont know us, Waves have been on the same sim of Sakai on the mainland for at least 2 years. We dabble in a few things that sometimes cover our costs-but sometimes dont. Some things are naughty- some are not. Some remember us, most try to forget. I have no emotions or too much money tied up in SL so I dont care what LL does- its their business and I just hang in here when the timing is right.

Also, the Lightclouds are very good at making sarcastic stupid comments that make no sense at all. We miss you all! Be back as soon as we can - keep stirring the shit!!!

Waves and Tang

oppurtunity is open to all. all just doesn't rise to the challenge. all should spend more time engaging the medium in a critical and innovative manner rather than clamouring for disengenious recognition on the forum for 3 prim christmas bobbles.

So.... if you weren't chosen then you got your wish... I don't see the problem.

And it was available to all - they selected from the population of SL didn't they?

It's not like Cory Doctorow is flying out to meet them.

I just fail to see what the problem is.

This opportunity was open to everyone, Cocoanut, that is what seems to be lost upon you. Do you think those who were picked did anything other than just live out their SL existences as they have and be involved in different aspects of SL? Nope. They didn't lobby for the positions, promote themselves, or do anything else. They were chosen by LL because they fit the criteria of what LL decided they were looking for to be part of THEIR ADVISORY PANEL. Once again you are dictating to LL how the process should have gone, when it is their process to choose who they want.

They were not chosen like the Claw in Toy Story - that is insulting to those who were chosen. What is not good for any of us is you maligning everyone involved. Merit based opportunities come up all the time, they are a part of life, and a perfectly fair part at that. Fairness does not mean always that everyone gets the exact same opportunity no matter what. Working hard and being given an opportunity because of it is not being handed something on a platter. Doing nothing and getting the same opportunity is.

I'm confused. Was not this "opportunity" open to all residents by default? And the Lindens chose who they wanted to talk to from our eligible pool of ____(whatever number of active accounts minus whatever number of alt accounts?) So what, you weren't chosen, neither was I. Nor were 99.9% of the other eligible residents. How many hours have you spent now with your blood pressure going through the roof, stomach churning with acid, teeth gnashing, heart racing as you pound furiously at the keyboard over this worthless topic that should have been no more than a "Hmmm..how interesting, I bet that will be fun. I need another glass of wine...."

Is it really worth all this anguish and trauma? Is it really worth losing sleep over? Is it really worth all this venom and that little ulcer forming in the lining of your stomach?

Yes... but, WHY is it not good for them or us?

Seven pages of crap whilst I sleep... and nothing of value.

Ignoring the personal attack as always, and apologising for not putting out an 'under construction sign', I see nothing so far that actually explains the benefits of selecting a small elite group to make decisions for the rest of us.

As nobody has actually explained why this is a good idea, and instead decided my objections are simply down to the fact that I wasn't picked. Quite apart from objecting to the principle, SF is one of the last places I'd want to go to.

I therefore conclude that this whole exercise is just a jolly, paid for out of money that should be being invested in SL's future for the benefit of all of us.

Sale now on... picture of me L$5,000. Does nobody understand humour here?

Lewis

If your definition of success is quality and originality of work, then why are you complaining lack of land and money is holding you back from being successful? You have all the tools you need to do quality and original stuff on you land. That sort of success isn't even measured by how many visit your land, how many see your work, how many say wow, that's cool.

It's measured by looking at soomething you've just finished, and going, I love that, and it's the best thing I've made so far. It's knowing you set out to push yourself further, and produced the best work you can.

You only need you for that. The scale is unimportant. Size matters in bed, not in art or creativity.

Joannah, Cocoanut, partially Ordinal, and Lewis I suppose -

Okay. So. Say, (hypothetically) that you're right. This is a doomed venture, [ominous voice]"Mark my words... Nothing good will come of this!"[/voice]

What exactly do you want LL to do about it?

They decided on a course of action... there pursuing it. You want them to cancel the whole gig? Just because you don't approve?

Did I miss an election that put you in charge of something?


You all want to deprive a few people of a few hours of meet and greet, q&a, a little exchange of ideas and an peek into each other's lives... and a chance that it might, in some bizarre and unexpected way, convince the folks at Linden Lab to do something differently.

You'd want to deprive anyone of a few moments of recognition, honor and importance, "Just because you disagree with the process." Sorry.. but that sounds really petty to me.

You sound like smart folks... can't you phrase your arguement more convincingly then relying on some mythical 'Fair' concept?

What is fair anyway? Does how much we pay factor in? How about the total amount of time in SecondLife? What about the relative and unmeasurable contributions that people make within SecondLife? What about talent? What about objectivity and critical thinking? Is a completely random lottery fair? What if they 'randomly' only get 8 people that logged for no more than a few hours ever? Is that fair?

How do you design a point system that makes something like this FAIR?

Or... are you saying we should lock Linden Lab employees up in a bubble with no outside contact at all? God forbid, folks that live in San Francisco might have some unfair influence on the destiny of SecondLife!

--
(Jonquille - Excellent post, I wish I could remain as calm and level headed as you were.)

That particular 'elite' group won't be making decisions for us. Only the elite group of people that are in the decision making roles at LL will make decisions about the Platform.
This 'elite' group will only be giving their opinions, ideas and solutions. It is up to LL to do something with it or not.

And it is a good idea for the following reasons.
They will be having 8 highly talented, motivated and involved residents together in one room with a group of developers/policy makers. Together they will be able to brainstorm about problems/ideas/future development for consecutive hours, without any distraction! No ims, no RL issues that will distrub you.

They will be able to quickly draw diagrams and express their thoughts fast and efficiently, let it sit and stir and come back on it maybe a hour later. Discussion will be more focused towards one issue, no forking of discussion because multiple people are typing through eachother.

Eventhough SL is one of the best ways to that if you can't have face to face time. Face to Face time is still vastly superior. For one reason, you will be able to see someone expression on their face. Often people might not agree to something, but can't put it in words yet. In SL you won't know, in RL you do and can engage them to get it out of them.

I will see in 9 hours what you think of these reasons, eventhough we are on the same continent i still need to sleep.

Well, I disagree.

As for the Toy Story Claw, I always think of the Claw in these instances, not because it is random, at all, but because it comes down from above, at unexpected intervals, and snatches up one (or more) from below, to go to a better place. It chooses from above, with no input or solicitation (but much awe) from the little aliens below. In other words, those below have nothing to do with it.

It is much better when things are announced to all - whatever those things may be - and people get a chance to know about it and put themselves in for it.

Whether or not those individuals THEN get chosen is not the point. The final choice always belongs to the Lindens. But if they don't put something out to all, they limit their own choices. They go by only what they already know and don't find the enthusiastic, able, and deserving individuals they otherwise would find, which would improve the outcome of whatever their cause.

And if this is supposedly our world in any sense, we should have some input in these things, particularly when the thing itself is to decide which individuals are going to have more influence in SL than anyone else.

The opportunity absolutely could not have been open to everyone, since it wasn't put out to be applied for by everyone, and since the Lindens not only don't know everyone, they don't even know what everyone does or could offer.

It is always a win-win situation when you announce your purpose and THEN select from the entrants.

The distinction between opportunities which are announced and open to all (while the Lindens still have the final choice) and those which are simply announced, with the participants being chosen by LL, or not even announced at all, but simply handed out from a Linden to a resident, is not lost on me.

In addition, presumably, going by what has been said, the purpose of this program is to better communicate with residents, take the pulse of SL, get feedback on what they have in mind for us, and so on and so forth. You just don't get that doing it this way, as Ordinal has pointed out.

And yes, once again, I am telling LL that I don't like this method of doing things. You are telling them that you do.

coco

Isablan, I read your earlier post in this thread and thought it was a very good post.

This one, though, paints a picture that simply is not happening, except in your imagination.

coco

Except that these 'highly talented, motivated and involved residents' all have one thing in common - big business, something that the vast majority are not involved in, either by choice or circumstances.

LL does everything it can to promote and showcase the highly successful - and pretty much completely ignores the little people, which make up the vast majority of the game. That's why the retention rate of new signups is so embarrassingly low, and nothing ever seems to be being done about it. It's almost as if unless you own at least an island, you don't matter.

Which brings me back to the same point, which cannot be refuted, that these chosen few do NOT represent SL and everyone in it - 8 people cannot possibly ever do so.

Lewis

They are. You have the opportunity to forge the kind of reputation that makes people think, 'if I was to pick 8 people for their knowledge and points of view, I would pick that person'.

Oh the horror!

Right. Just as parliament and the US senate and H of R cannot.

Abolish them! they don't take every last citizen's experience into account!

Let's live in caves!

Let's go 1984 all the way baby!

Clue me in: Why in hell would anybody want to be chosen for this, errr, honor? Is it like a hobbyist thing? Or a chance to sing & dance and become an SL Idol?

Except, of course, that those people are democratically elected by open process by those they represent - not hand-picked by the President for reasons unknown.

I'm sorry that you lack the ability to see the huge difference here.

Lewis

Really? You've interacted "enough" after two whole months in SL?

Enough to "examine" and discard a customer focus group program as a waste?

So they fly them there. Big deal.

Fun words like "acrobactics" make for interesting debate though, do they not? I mean, we've only been flying since the 20s, as regular passengers! It's SO extravagant. But we NEED drama!

And as for your "logical counter-agument" - lets hear it!, other than "it's pointless acrobatics", shall we?

I don't think you understand how business works, and I think your opaque desire for bergeroning SL society screams it out loud.

By "ad personam" do you mean calling people "FIC" or "The Chosen"? because some have, but I don't see you jumpinng on them... f

I'll concede that.

BUT.

The pres gets to pic his cabinet. We don't get to vote on it.

The pres gets to nominate all sorts of people, that the general public has no say in, supreme court justices come to mind.

Yeah yeah, you don't live in the US, I know, but you are dealing with a company housed there, so get used to politics that stem from it's country of origin. Or, cry all day long, every day, about how they want to run their own property.

There is a lot more of the US over here than you probably realise. More and more of our everyday life is being changed because of the american way of life poking itself in where it's not wanted.

Like no win no fee, where theres blame theres a claim personal accident lawyers, for a start.

However, none of that still gets past the fact that this whole exercise is entirely unnecessary and could have been much better handled in-world in the environment designed to facilitate such meetings. Again, how can any other company look at SL as a serious 'business platform' when they refuse to use their own system for meetings?

Lewis

AHHHHH ok. Now we're getting somewhere.

You're telling me your argument would not exist, or would have been different, had this been conducted in world?

Not really, however holding it in-world would have meant it would have been a lot easier for a much larger group of people to be involved, with no regard to the cost of getting them there or the practicalities behind it - for me, this would be a 14 hour (plus stopover) flight, costing around $1100. Somewhat prohibitive, no? I'd rather not go and be given a free island on those terms.

My objection is purely on the principle that a tiny group of people cannot represent all the diverse interests and playstyles within SL. There should be a number of focus groups, each on different aspects of the game - including something sorely lacking, those of us who aren't here to make thousands a month, but just have some fun and maybe cover tier if we're lucky. We make up the majority of the playerbase; Linden Labs, ignore us at your peril.

Lewis