The Chosen Ones Have Been Announced

Ok, then back to my point about a cabinet.

How the heck do they represent MILLIONS of people?

Not to mention, this is not a world, though some may buy into Philip's marketspeak to that end, it's just NOT. You are one who is constantly baning the "it's a game" drum, so what gives Lewis? Why can't you live and let live? Why must you be Jesus to the Moneychangers?

After all, it was already the way it is before you joined. I don't by a Ferrari and then tell them they should build economy cars.

They will of course invite larger groups later.. and diff groups.. when learning from this smaller one.. they will later understand they need to talk to more of us...

There are directflights from Stockholm to SF btw!) SAS, United Airlines, Air France BA...

/Tina - EXAKT when will I get my ticket?

Do I really need to explain the democratic election process to you? Each of those people is elected by those in their area, to represent the majority. Together, they provide a fairly broad spectrum of viewpoints - and there's a lot more than 8 there.



I may be vocal about SL being a game, but there are THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of players who are playing just like I do, and doing the kind of things that I do - having fun. It's actually the "making big money" crowd that are seriously in the minority here, and those are the ones being given every help, to the detriment of the rest of us, who are probably more committed to SL because we're here because we want to, rather than for profit.



SL is open ended and evolving. Why should it stay stagnant as 'capitalism online' instead of growing into something more benefitical for everyone? The L$ *was* L$250/$1, it's now changed, and will no doubt change again. Just because it "was" doesn't mean it always "will be".

Lewis

It might come as shock, but there's life outside SL and it involves interaction.


Please, stop beating the strawman. Especially when you're replying to post where i already clarified am not objecting to the program itself.


And yet such mundane part of the whole process is picked to be spotlighted aspect of the program? I mean, we don't get to read "the picked residents will then spend days / weeks / months / whatever providing valuable input as part of permanent advisory board" ... but instead the part important enough to bring up in announcement is, how these people are to be collected for one day after a routine travel we've been doing since 20's?

You might not see it as big deal. LL though apparently does. (as do plenty companies which tend to turn such 'players get to meet devs' gatherings into PR stunts) Maybe you should try to clue them in we aren't living in the 20's anymore, and it's no longer something to write home about...


Let's hear it indeed. I've asked you about some specifics that you think this meeting face to face part is necessary for, and you've been dodging that ever since.


I think your opaque inability to actually comprehend the point of interlocutor has already been clearly demonstrated, no need to repeat it. Am not objecting the program itself, nor the selection process, nor the people who were picked for it. Am objecting to the PR stunt part which --in this particular case-- is of questionable benefit, given what SL tries to advertise itself as. How's that 'opaque desire for equalising SL society', again?

Or are you telling me it's that part am actually objecting to, the being provided with "routine activity we've been performing since 20's and no big deal" part... that is itself somehow elevating the status of the few picked people, and asking to have it dropped is a 'blatant attempt to equalize SL society'? Shit, but that'd go quite against what you've been claiming just couple paragraphs ago...

Pick a spin and _stick_ to it. Or it just doesn't work.


No, i meant specifically your comments because am having conversation with you, not with these other people. If i was speaking with them and they acted just like you did towards me then yes, they'd get the same response. Until that happens, i believe their own interlocutors can and did handle themselves quite well on their own.

Uhmm how do i want to 'deprive anyone' etc, exactly? The people who were picked have already been recognized by this very fact, after all. You don't see me questioning that nor calling to have them ejected and the program disbanded, do you? o.O

Heck, if it's about recognition and honour, then put their statues in a 'hall of recognized SL residents' or something in world, for all i care. Surely it'd serve as a longer term esteem display for SL generations to come and learn about, and actually reinforce the idea about SL-verse being place in its own right..?

Might I interject with a point for discussion ?

That as a private company Linden Labs can do exactly whatever the hell they like is indisputable really, I fear those arguing for "democracy" in that context are choosing to avoid commercial realities they ordinarily accept every day of their lives, but...

Linden labs themselves and frequently the residents most often found to be cheerleading for them are the ones evangelising the notion that it isn't just a game - a product if you will, but a platform, and even more ambitiously, "the future of the internet"... now in THAT context I can imagine more of a fuss.

You can't expect to tell people this might or will, be their virtual future existence and not have them clamouring for the same rights and representation they fight for in their non virtual existence - and yes, these days, many do fight businesses in arenas considered to be of such critical importance to the greater social good that they can't be left in the hands of single corporate entities. Are we seeing a manifestation of this phenomenon perhaps ?

Meh, I'm talking to myself again, but it seemed more interesting to ponder the motivation for such passion beyond petty jealousy, given how important this thing we know as Second Life is to us.

True, but ignore the wants and needs of your playerbase, alienate them, and you risk them leaving in droves. Customers, especially paying ones, are what keeps the company alive, and their presence (or otherwise) will ultimately be the success of the product, regardless of its technical claims or any other factor of what makes it good.

Star Wars Galaxies, anyone?

Lewis

Yep we know your position now. I was hoping to push the thread to a larger more philosophical theme, but you overlooked that to retsate your position. AGAIN. You're giving me a headache Lewis.

There need be no other theme. Happy players stay, unhappy ones go elsewhere. Just like people try to turn a game like SL into a "platform" or "the future of the internet", you don't need to get all fillersoffickle about it and make it all complicated when a simple reasoning like the one I gave covers everything I need to say.

Nobody's making you read my posts, so feel free to stop replying. Saves me the bother too.

Lewis

This seems like a good way for LL to get some insight into their customers' experiences and issues. I especially like the idea of the back and forth of a face to face discussion with some very productive residents. For instance, I think it might be cool if these people told LL about any ambitious SL projects they started but didn't finish, and why.

I don't understand why LL felt the need to promote what is basically a focus group and then to announce the attendees, though. That seems to be asking for a public controversy.

i guess you don't vote in the elections

Actually I don't, but that's for other reasons.

Politicians are elected by a democratic process. This 'chosen few' have been arbitarily picked through an unknown process, for reasons generally unknown, for an unknown conclusion that will most likely produce nothing to benefit the vast majority of the SL population.

Think about it.... if no decisions are made as a result of this meeting, what's the actual point of it?

If decisions are made, judging by the people going, there will only be changes made that benefit the power player, and nothing to benefit - or at the expense of - the vast majority of us here who just come to have fun.

Lewis

Uh, and we're talking about that life? Uh, no, we're not. But hey, you've got SL all figured out after two whole months! Kudos.


Could have fooled me. There are no straw men. We are still talking about the issue at hand. Great attempt to divert though! -1

I have already expounded about the paucity of info. Thanks for reinforcing. I urge you to read my previous posts.

Where did LL say it was a "big deal"? The only "big deal" I see, is being made by the detractors. This is nothing new, to be sure, they used to have phone conferences with residents they picked. OMG HOW MUNDANE HOW UNNECESSARY! Oh wait, you don't work for LL so you dont get to determine what is needless. Get this - you are not a citizen, you are a customer. Does that help?

Uh, no, I have responded to your claims that its not worthwhile. The least you can do is answer, without the use of empty rhetorical devices. Why is it bad that a company culls customers for feedback? A non *I know you are but what am I?* answer would be nice.

You are ASSUMING it's a PR stunt, and I think you are wrong. How much clearer do I need to be?

And you don't have a problem with the selection, uh huh. That was about travel on my part, not networking, spin, spin, spin.

It was about flying. Nothing else. And YOU want to accuse me of SPIN?

I am right on track with my feelings on this, another lame rhetorical device. See above.

Right, but you don't subscribe to their views...
What is it SPECIFICALLY that you think is wrong with the idea of a company solicting customer feedback in person?

Listen "Joannah", this is going to happen, despite the screeching of the usual suspects and their alts.

when i need gardening tips i go talk to the person with the nicest yard. i don't hold a public referendum. the outcome of being selective of who i talk to means i don't waste time and my yard looks better faster.

LL doesn't need to waste time with democracy because it is a private corporation.

so basically it's not the process that is the problem. you just don't like their choices?

please think of me when nerd life opens.

Does your garden have a quarter of a million residents who will be all be affected by your choices? So you want gardening tips... you think a garden is just for plants, but by talking to an expert on water features, you might find out some things that change your view of your garden. You've always used concrete slabs for your path - but maybe someone you don't know would suggest a gravel path that would look much better given the surrounding features. You see where I'm heading with this?



They ignore the majority of their playerbase at their peril.

Lewis

I don't like the choice of people or the process. I thought I'd made that quite clear.



We're already playing it.

Lewis

OMG! HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT!

THINK ABOUT THE POOR NEWBIES THAT WILL ADD TO THE HOI POLLOI!

THIS IS A WORLD JAUANI WU! PHILIP SAID IT!


HOW DARE YOU INFRINGE UPON MY UM (American?) RIGHTS!

I am AMERICAN> FUCK YOU YOU SOCIALIST!

Are we required to bow or perform some other form of obeisance when in the presence of the Chosen Ones?

Are there "Chosen Ones" T-Shirts and "Chosen Ones Groupie" T-shirts yets?

Is there a "Chosen Ones" fan club?

Will any of the dom-sub or similar roleplaying groups create a role for the "Chosen Ones" in their role playing system?

Should the Lindens create an official group for the Chosen Ones with the member title of "Second LIfe Chosen Ones"?

Could you list for us what you know about the people chosen?

Thanks

I suspect no matter who was chosen there would be the same ammount of animoscity and discord. Its just how some people are. They claim they wouldn't accept the invitation if chosen, yet continue to badmouth those that were. I think someone had it right early on with the sour grapes analogy.

We were talking about interaction, and about how some people have been subjected to this skill more than others.


A strawman is argument one chooses to address instead of actual point of their opponent. Typically because it's easier to beat.

* me: i think the flight thing is rather silly idea, since it goes vs what SL claims to be
* you: zomg you don't want the advisory program!

see? your 'issue at hand' is something quite different from what i talk about. If you want to argue with someone who is against the advisory program, then you got wrong person.


In the original announcement of the program. They chose to highlight the start of program itself _and_ the fact the participants are to be brought to LL hq. So either it is big deal to them, or they have incompetent staff that can't focus on important parts and writes about trifles instead. Up to you.


Uh, no. your 'response' was actually dodging the original question which was specifically about _what_ so exclusive can be brought in a short personal meeting that cannot be done without it. "something worthwile" is as far from being specific as it can go, sorry.


Nothing is wrong with picking customers for feedback. Please feel free to go back and show me where i actually said something to that effect. If anything, i stated couple times by now to the contrary, yet you still pounding on that poor straw guy.


Then it's closed matter. You have your opinion on what it is, and i have mine. Unless you can provide me with coherent argument why it's anything _but_ PR stunt, i guess it'll stay at that. And since you've been dodging that particular question ever since it was asked, i don't think it's going to change.


Am sorry, but "on your part" it was about:

"I don't think you understand how business works, and I think your opaque desire for bergeroning SL society screams it out loud. "

The only way to interpret it that made any sort of sense was, that somehow granting some residents travels on behalf of LL was a way to recognize their 'higher status' or whaever. Except just a while ago you were claiming this very sort of travel is as mundane thing as it goes... so making diverse society by granting some with something extremely mundane didn't really make sense after all. And it now turns out that's "spin" on my part anyway. So, how exactly my 'opaque desire for bergeroning SL society' and your 'it was only about travel' come together in your mind? Because apparently it's just too twisted path of reasoning for me to follow.


I said it in about first post i made in this thread, thank you for skipping it. It basically comes down to belief that company which makes a 'platform for new ways of communication without barriers' etc... shoots themselves in a foot by picking traditional and tiresome way to seek feedback from their focus group. Because downplay it all you want, but it does send a signal for would-be investors "all the PR bull aside, if you want to have useful communication with your customers then you're better off flying them in from around the world and deal with usual barriers in the process, than try this SL thing"


I know, "Nolan". Doesn't mean i can't give my feedback on this, it's what the forum is for. Don't like it, don't read it.

I believe "naming names" and targetting individuals for criticism is not permitted on the forums, and as I do not wish to obtain a warning/or suspension over such a silly issue, I will keep my thoughts to myself.

In general, they are all people with big business (and big money) who are all I am sure very knowledgeable of how to run a large operation in SL.

Which is all well and good except probably around 95% of the player base are not doing what they are, therefore they are not representative of the game at large - thus not knowledgeable about what us little people need SL to provide us to help us.

Lewis

The reason I ask is because I've heard of almost everyone on the list. They're a well known group of people. But not for big business, as far as I know. It's possible that they're all about big money money money and I just haven't noticed or heard of their businesses in the last 2 1/2 years. I'm a hermit and don't get out much. But I know their names for different reasons. For scripting. For building. For organizing...

When I look at the list, 'money' isn't the thing that comes to mind. Talent is.

Besides, I didn't ask you to categorically talk smack about them. Just to list what you knew about them.