Second Life Forums Archive - I have had enough

Jopsy Pendragon

Perpetual Outsider

Join date: 15 Jan 2004

Posts: 1,906

03-17-2007 11:51

From: Yiffy Yaffle

There is a difference between AgePlay and Pedophiles. Just like theres a difference between Furry and Beastiality,

I agree... but only if you replace the term "Pedophile" with "Child Molester"

Kidd Krasner

Registered User

Join date: 1 Jan 2007

Posts: 1,938

03-17-2007 12:06

From: Usagi Musashi

Then I suume you never even stuied it........noth worth the bother then.next

You're saying that if someone hasn't studied the issue, it's not worth the trouble for you to provide a citation. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'd think that if someone were unfamiliar with the subject, you'd be delighted to provide citations that support your point.

Mickey McLuhan

She of the SwissArmy Tail

Join date: 22 Aug 2005

Posts: 1,032

03-17-2007 13:00

From: Jopsy Pendragon

I agree... but only if you replace the term "Pedophile" with "Child Molester"

How about adding "Child Molester", rather than replacing, because AgePlayers aren't neccessarily paedophiles.

From: Kidd

You're saying that if someone hasn't studied the issue, it's not worth the trouble for you to provide a citation. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'd think that if someone were unfamiliar with the subject, you'd be delighted to provide citations that support your point.

Presumptuous, too, no?
Presuming that I haven't studied because I disagree? Actually, it was more like attacking me because I disagree.

_____________________

*0.0*

Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. It might just be a particle display.
-Mari-

Griffin Aldwych

Registered User

Join date: 27 Oct 2006

Posts: 65

03-17-2007 14:01

From: Aminon Marvin

Threads like this made by ageplayers is a sign that LL is beginning to do the right things

Know what? Yea, the Lindens have treated you horribly! Looks like you will have no recourse but to leave the game entirely

From: Liralen Lawl

Excellent point.

Er...ever heard the phrase "careful what you wish for, it might come true"?

In your mind all ageplayers are pedophiles...worse than that, child molesters (read back for a pretty good definition of the difference)...and you want to deprive them of something that;

1. Takes up a few hours a day of their free time
2. Probably results in sexual gratification for them

So you are asking to make a pack of child molesters sexually frustrated and then give them lots more free time...?

Sorry, but I thought you were trying to protect children...your motives just got very muddy...

Jamey Satyr

Lifetimer

Join date: 16 Nov 2003

Posts: 39

03-24-2007 23:31

From: Griffin Aldwych

I just lost ANY respect for your arguments Usagi. If you are discounting what Coyote said then you have moved from the already questionable argument of "child pornography incites child abuse" to the simply ridiculous one of "the ONLY thing that causes child abuse is child pornography"

Coyote is quite simply, 100% right. Child porn never turned any "normal" adult into a pedophile. If porn worked that way, the world would be a happier place - not because there'd be millions of pedophiles, but because all you'd have to do to "turn" a pedophile back would be to show them adult porn.

You're born with your sexuality - or at very least it develops at puberty. There were MANY varied (and frankly, quite horrible) experiments performed on homosexuals in the 1960's and 70's to try and make them "straight" - and the success ratio was precisely zero percent.

...I did not know that. Can you point me at any sources for _that_ material, if you please? I had not heard of those experiments.

Other than a 'interesting' and disturbing read, I'm sure, I'd like to add that to my list of information concerning experiments into altering human behavior. Thank you.

_____________________

You all disgust me. Meeting adjourned. --Timothy Montgomery, ASB.

Jamey Satyr

Lifetimer

Join date: 16 Nov 2003

Posts: 39

03-24-2007 23:56

From: Elva Pera

Since linden labs have banned ageplay because it is illegal in several countries then how about banning these other things since they are ALSO illegal.

Rape: That is illegal in just about every country I am aware of.

Homosexuality: This too, is illegal in several countries.

Gambling: Someone already brought this issue up, but it does happen to be illegal in some countries. Notably, in Islamic countries, but why should Linden Labs make a distinction between Islamic countries and other countries?

I think that griefers are a more major issue than ageplay. Nobody has ever forced me, or has bothered me about ageplay so I think that you would not see ageplay unless you specifically go look for it in sl.

Actually people tell me they've been passing out notecards to r*pe groups, as well, and that it's now against the rules to use the word in public forums or to partake in that activity in all areas on SL that fall into the public forums definition.

Along with r*ape, and other forms of non-consentual play, b*stiality is forbidden in any public forum, and, amusingly, c*m is against the ToS. That is 'male sexual bodily fluids', to make sure there is no confusion. I don't have a copy of any of those notecards, but I'll try and get them or find them.

I can understand the two, but c*m? I mean, come on. No more c*m scripts used in sex clubs, no more saying the word when acting out an exhibitionist display, or anything..

I'd like to point out that, again, as I was told, anyplace anyone can go is potentially a public forum, because anyone can go there. It has to be a place only those who are supposed to be allowed in can get in for it to be considered truely a private forum.

And I'd like to point out that I, for one, don't engage in public displays of sexuality. Not that I think anything bad of those that do, I just don't like jerks intruding in anything of the nature, and I don't like having to try and 'play' around a bunch of other people talking.

Just to go back to the a*eplay topic, most of the griping is that, as per the card, it's engaging even in the _NON_-sexual aspects that are forbidden in any public forum, and even stating that your _AVATAR_ is under 17 is grounds for suspension, even if you state that you are over 18 before that. Or after it. Or, well, anything. And yes, for those interested in knowing, A*eplay has been around since beta, just not as public. These things have been around since the start of SL, or soon after, and LL never did anything about it, until now.

I agree with Colette in her deduction that it has more to do with keeping SL from having it's ISP banned in other countries than anything to do with what the community thinks. They've only ever listened to any of us when we were kissing their collective a**es, even during Beta when we were supposed to be telling them when we didn't like things.

From my point of view, it never _should_ have gotten this public. None of the fetish/kink clubs/groups should have been. Of course I think there _always_ should have been a mature or even multiple listings for profiles. Perhaps someone should design a profiling system for hyperlinking to that's outside of Linden control. A hassle, I know, but then someone _HAS_ to want to know what sorts of _adult_ things someone might be into that LL has asked us not to have in our profiles. Just my opinion.

_____________________

You all disgust me. Meeting adjourned. --Timothy Montgomery, ASB.

Usagi Musashi

UM ™®

Join date: 24 Oct 2004

Posts: 6,083

03-25-2007 00:03

From: Kidd Krasner

You're saying that if someone hasn't studied the issue, it's not worth the trouble for you to provide a citation. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'd think that if someone were unfamiliar with the subject, you'd be delighted to provide citations that support your point.

Well when your dealing with alts and otehr second third alt accounts here nomatter what i put up here there always be another alt to post a yea but remarks..............well BTW did you play for this alt too or is it just payment online

takes all kinds on sl these days......

Strife Onizuka

Moonchild

Join date: 3 Mar 2004

Posts: 5,887

03-25-2007 00:12

This forum isn't for general discussion; there are many Resident Sites where this discussion is appropriate — Resident Answers is for Resident-to-Resident help.

I'll close this thread...

Forum Guidelines

Private discussions – the forums are a public area for the Second Life community’s use. Individuals who have a dispute with each other have other channels of communication to discuss their differences or communicate – private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life. Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting polls about a particular resident or group, etc.
Flaming, Spamming, Trolling – Flaming (posting a message that is intended to incite anger or directly attack a person or persons), Spamming (multiple posts of the same topic or discussion), and Trolling (a post with an intentionally contrary opinion written with the intent of inciting or getting argumentative opinions) are strongly discouraged. If you think your post might be over-reactive, or that it might fall into one of these definitions, please reconsider posting.

Community Standards

Intolerance
Combating intolerance is a cornerstone of Second Life's Community Standards. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images in reference to another Resident's race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is never allowed in Second Life.

*burp*
Internet Child User Protection Law Struck Down

_____________________

Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey

I have had enough
Jopsy Pendragon Perpetual Outsider Join date: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 1,906	03-17-2007 11:51 From: Yiffy Yaffle There is a difference between AgePlay and Pedophiles. Just like theres a difference between Furry and Beastiality, I agree... but only if you replace the term "Pedophile" with "Child Molester"
Kidd Krasner Registered User Join date: 1 Jan 2007 Posts: 1,938	03-17-2007 12:06 From: Usagi Musashi Then I suume you never even stuied it........noth worth the bother then.next You're saying that if someone hasn't studied the issue, it's not worth the trouble for you to provide a citation. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'd think that if someone were unfamiliar with the subject, you'd be delighted to provide citations that support your point.
Mickey McLuhan She of the SwissArmy Tail Join date: 22 Aug 2005 Posts: 1,032	03-17-2007 13:00 From: Jopsy Pendragon I agree... but only if you replace the term "Pedophile" with "Child Molester" How about adding "Child Molester", rather than replacing, because AgePlayers aren't neccessarily paedophiles. From: Kidd You're saying that if someone hasn't studied the issue, it's not worth the trouble for you to provide a citation. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'd think that if someone were unfamiliar with the subject, you'd be delighted to provide citations that support your point. Presumptuous, too, no? Presuming that I haven't studied because I disagree? Actually, it was more like attacking me because I disagree. _____________________ 0.0 Where there's smoke, there isn't always fire. It might just be a particle display. -Mari-
Griffin Aldwych Registered User Join date: 27 Oct 2006 Posts: 65	03-17-2007 14:01 From: Aminon Marvin Threads like this made by ageplayers is a sign that LL is beginning to do the right things Know what? Yea, the Lindens have treated you horribly! Looks like you will have no recourse but to leave the game entirely From: Liralen Lawl Excellent point. Er...ever heard the phrase "careful what you wish for, it might come true"? In your mind all ageplayers are pedophiles...worse than that, child molesters (read back for a pretty good definition of the difference)...and you want to deprive them of something that; 1. Takes up a few hours a day of their free time 2. Probably results in sexual gratification for them So you are asking to make a pack of child molesters sexually frustrated and then give them lots more free time...? Sorry, but I thought you were trying to protect children...your motives just got very muddy...
Jamey Satyr Lifetimer Join date: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 39	03-24-2007 23:31 From: Griffin Aldwych I just lost ANY respect for your arguments Usagi. If you are discounting what Coyote said then you have moved from the already questionable argument of "child pornography incites child abuse" to the simply ridiculous one of "the ONLY thing that causes child abuse is child pornography" Coyote is quite simply, 100% right. Child porn never turned any "normal" adult into a pedophile. If porn worked that way, the world would be a happier place - not because there'd be millions of pedophiles, but because all you'd have to do to "turn" a pedophile back would be to show them adult porn. You're born with your sexuality - or at very least it develops at puberty. There were MANY varied (and frankly, quite horrible) experiments performed on homosexuals in the 1960's and 70's to try and make them "straight" - and the success ratio was precisely zero percent. ...I did not know that. Can you point me at any sources for _that_ material, if you please? I had not heard of those experiments. Other than a 'interesting' and disturbing read, I'm sure, I'd like to add that to my list of information concerning experiments into altering human behavior. Thank you. _____________________ You all disgust me. Meeting adjourned. --Timothy Montgomery, ASB.
Jamey Satyr Lifetimer Join date: 16 Nov 2003 Posts: 39	03-24-2007 23:56 From: Elva Pera Since linden labs have banned ageplay because it is illegal in several countries then how about banning these other things since they are ALSO illegal. Rape: That is illegal in just about every country I am aware of. Homosexuality: This too, is illegal in several countries. Gambling: Someone already brought this issue up, but it does happen to be illegal in some countries. Notably, in Islamic countries, but why should Linden Labs make a distinction between Islamic countries and other countries? I think that griefers are a more major issue than ageplay. Nobody has ever forced me, or has bothered me about ageplay so I think that you would not see ageplay unless you specifically go look for it in sl. Actually people tell me they've been passing out notecards to rpe groups, as well, and that it's now against the rules to use the word in public forums or to partake in that activity in all areas on SL that fall into the public forums definition. Along with rape, and other forms of non-consentual play, bstiality is forbidden in any public forum, and, amusingly, cm is against the ToS. That is 'male sexual bodily fluids', to make sure there is no confusion. I don't have a copy of any of those notecards, but I'll try and get them or find them. I can understand the two, but cm? I mean, come on. No more cm scripts used in sex clubs, no more saying the word when acting out an exhibitionist display, or anything.. I'd like to point out that, again, as I was told, anyplace anyone can go is potentially a public forum, because anyone can go there. It has to be a place only those who are supposed to be allowed in can get in for it to be considered truely a private forum. And I'd like to point out that I, for one, don't engage in public displays of sexuality. Not that I think anything bad of those that do, I just don't like jerks intruding in anything of the nature, and I don't like having to try and 'play' around a bunch of other people talking. Just to go back to the aeplay topic, most of the griping is that, as per the card, it's engaging even in the _NON_-sexual aspects that are forbidden in any public forum, and even stating that your _AVATAR_ is under 17 is grounds for suspension, even if you state that you are over 18 before that. Or after it. Or, well, anything. And yes, for those interested in knowing, Aeplay has been around since beta, just not as public. These things have been around since the start of SL, or soon after, and LL never did anything about it, until now. I agree with Colette in her deduction that it has more to do with keeping SL from having it's ISP banned in other countries than anything to do with what the community thinks. They've only ever listened to any of us when we were kissing their collective a**es, even during Beta when we were supposed to be telling them when we didn't like things. From my point of view, it never _should_ have gotten this public. None of the fetish/kink clubs/groups should have been. Of course I think there _always_ should have been a mature or even multiple listings for profiles. Perhaps someone should design a profiling system for hyperlinking to that's outside of Linden control. A hassle, I know, but then someone _HAS_ to want to know what sorts of _adult_ things someone might be into that LL has asked us not to have in our profiles. Just my opinion. _____________________ You all disgust me. Meeting adjourned. --Timothy Montgomery, ASB.
Usagi Musashi UM ™® Join date: 24 Oct 2004 Posts: 6,083	03-25-2007 00:03 From: Kidd Krasner You're saying that if someone hasn't studied the issue, it's not worth the trouble for you to provide a citation. That doesn't make any sense to me. I'd think that if someone were unfamiliar with the subject, you'd be delighted to provide citations that support your point. Well when your dealing with alts and otehr second third alt accounts here nomatter what i put up here there always be another alt to post a yea but remarks..............well BTW did you play for this alt too or is it just payment online takes all kinds on sl these days......
Strife Onizuka Moonchild Join date: 3 Mar 2004 Posts: 5,887	03-25-2007 00:12 This forum isn't for general discussion; there are many Resident Sites where this discussion is appropriate — Resident Answers is for Resident-to-Resident help. I'll close this thread... Forum Guidelines Private discussions – the forums are a public area for the Second Life community’s use. Individuals who have a dispute with each other have other channels of communication to discuss their differences or communicate – private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life. Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting polls about a particular resident or group, etc. Flaming, Spamming, Trolling – Flaming (posting a message that is intended to incite anger or directly attack a person or persons), Spamming (multiple posts of the same topic or discussion), and Trolling (a post with an intentionally contrary opinion written with the intent of inciting or getting argumentative opinions) are strongly discouraged. If you think your post might be over-reactive, or that it might fall into one of these definitions, please reconsider posting. Community Standards Intolerance Combating intolerance is a cornerstone of Second Life's Community Standards. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as whole. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images in reference to another Resident's race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is never allowed in Second Life. burp Internet Child User Protection Law Struck Down _____________________ Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey

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I have had enough