I have had enough

Has anyone read anything I have stated? I am not having sex as an ageplayer. I just act little. Thats all!!! All of you keep saying sex over and over again and I ha ve already told you I am not doing that!!

Answer my point about foreign laws, please.

Broccoli

I believe you. I really dislike the assumption myself that all of us who wear certain costume or make certain types of content are promoting other to use this for sexual or immoral purposes myself.
Yet we cannot seem to educate those who are truly clueless sadly.
If you're not promoting things like baby fur sex with adult furies it doesn't apply to you.
Now what you're guest do in public areas not sure about that.

So what exactly is your problem then? This ruling does not apply to you. It only applies to ageplay of a SEXUAL nature. Even then, it doesn't outlaw it, it simply says you can't ADVERTISE sexual ageplay.

Welcome to the don't ask, don't tell policy of virtual pedophilia.

I believe he's american.

Broccoli

No, you're wrong. There's a strong difference between a public service and a service the public can access.

Here's a definition of "public service"

http://www.answers.com/topic/public-services

And while I see that many residents go frenzy whenever SL does not work to their expectations or when the grid is down, this virtual world isn't a commodity, yet.

Since public services tend to be those considered so essential to modern life that for moral reasons their universal provision should be guaranteed, I believe that by now email (or plain Internet access) should fall by now into that category.

SL does not, I believe.

I am all for freedom of speech, civil and human rights but here we're dealing with a service originated from a private "service provider".

Besides this, my stance on the issue:

1) Not all ageplay is bad. The example of "baby furs" shows that. The notecard from LL wasn't written very well.
2) LL saying "We don't like this, hence you can't do it" is ok, since SL it's a service (see above), but LL saying "You can't do this since it may be illegal in some countries" is wrong, since a - not all the countries are equal and what's illegal here may be legal there, b - there are other things in SL that are illegal in one or more countries, so LL should take the same stance on them?

I've posted this before - please check your WikiPedia again!

According to WP, the US "PROTECT act of 2003" makes computer-generated images that appear to show underage sex illegal if they fail the Miller Test for obscenity. Material that fails the Miller Test is not subject to the First Amendment so it doesn't help. This law was passed after Ashcroft vs. FSC, and was explicitly designed to work around the earlier ruling.



As others have said, SL is a private space and LL can do whatever they want with it. You don't have a human right to ageplay. Human rights don't apply either - they only say that LL can't take away a right you already had. But you didn't "already have" SL. LL gave it to you, and there is no requirement for them to provide you with everything you need for all of your rights. Your human right to free speech gives you the right to set up your own world if you want to, not to demand anything from LL.

I disagree strongly.

That is what Venture Capital is all about.

By coincidence, in my RL persona, I was attending a Biotech Conference for VCs when this all started.

I discussed the issues with several people there and obtained at least "interest" in funding an alternative to the tune of around $2M. All based on conversations at the reception!

I next talked with some of my friends in the software development field and we came up with a "Second Life" clone based on the peer 2 peer technology that is giving the movie and music companies fits. Bitorrent, Emule and the like.

Technically this would have quite a few advantages, not the least being scalability i.e. NO "grid" problems!

The motivation and support would not be for the "unrestrained" sexual aspect of all this, but to reach people in oppressive countries where all freedom of expression is heavily restricted.

Yes most of the money would come from selling sex - do you have any idea what an ordinary porn movie brings in say Saudi Arabia? Apart from a long jail sentence that is.

Bottom line is that this seems to be a viable startup and could grow very quickly.

So what do our potential customers think?

Are enough of you pissed off enough to start over somewhere else or at least give it a try?

The attraction would be that there would be NO central control - for good or evil!

Karen

What next? A plea from griefers to be allowed to carry on upsetting people because that is their chosen fantasy existence?

Yet in your very first post you say "We do not do anything sexual out in the open".

That implies that you do sexual stuff, but in skyboxes and suchlike.

Care to clarify?

Broccoli

Well LLabs is changing the rules of the game YET again........Once you think you know them...........forget it.....

Yes, and you are being emotional and overreacting. If you aren't having sex as an ageplayer, you have nothing to worry about. The only people this hurts are the ones actually doing it. Calm down, take a breath, and see this for what it is, an attemt by LL to rein in something that has gotten out of control, adults advertising sex with children.

Because of it's Global subscriber base Second Life can not be Americentric or Eurocentric in it socio-economic priciples. The Creators have to find a happy medium, a difficult job. (This is why the Utopian One World United Nations based Government some wish for will not work, In my opinion). Anyway, The Creators as the owners of the World have the right to decide what they will tolerate, and to communicate it via the TOS. All we can hope for is that thier standards are clear and cosistent. And if we don't like them we are free to go elsewhere. But I do belive that behavior in Private Areas that are in line with the TOS
is no one's business except the parties engaged in it.

Arrogance is so attractive.

"Child Pornography" (real or simulated images) is illegal where LL does business, and as such has *always* been against TOS/CS.

It's not a change in the rules, it's a change in how seriously they're enforcing those rules. Clearly, this is a problem that has escalated and is now causing problems for LL, they're stepping up their response to it.

[edit: Okay, so maybe I'm rather off base then: "The United States Supreme Court decided in 2002 that the previous American prohibition of simulated child pornography was unconstitutional (Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition). However, according to a lawyer whose firm specialises in computer sex crime cases, in real legal practice, popular sentiment and political positions stray far from this decision." ]

Please don't paint us all with that brush.....

Second Life, being hosted by a U.S. based company on U.S. based servers falls under U.S. laws, not matter how many of it's players come from outside the United States.



Obviously if someone uses SL to persue virtual sex then clearly they're losers who can't get laid and, therefore, less worthy than you.



A lot of people do have issues stemming from being sexually abused as a child. Many of them use sexual ageplay as a sort of therapy.

Because you, of your own free will, signed up for a U.S. based service that falls under U.S. jurisdiction.

This endless-loop argument keeps coming up in all the ageplay threads and it is getting tiresome.

We have one side that keeps screaming ADULT-CHILD SEX IS WRONG!!!!ZOMGWTF!!!
Well, yeah, of course. Hey, hello, WE ALL KNOW THAT! And that includes the people simulating it in SL. This is not about whether it is right or wrong. It is about how to deal with it.

The other side (which I am on) keeps yelling FREEDOM OF THOUGHT!. OK, cool, as long as no one in RL is actually being harmed. But it's not just about full free expression either.

Problem is, neither side is listening to the other. Each side is just looking for things the other side said to use as a springboard to start yelling again. So it never gets resolved. And you know what? It won't. Because NO-ONE IS LISTENING, EVERYONE IS TOO BUSY SCREAMING.

You know, we could start being rational about this for a change. We might actually get somewhere.

And as I have already mentioned twice, at least based on WikiPedia (and I'm not a lawyer), computer-generated child porn is illegal in the United States. The First Amendment does not protect obscene material.

Threads like this made by ageplayers is a sign that LL is beginning to do the right things

Know what? Yea, the Lindens have treated you horribly! Looks like you will have no recourse but to leave the game entirely

So... say for argument's sake that some *real* pedophiles come out, and say they demand their 'right' to actually rape children.

Should we be 'rational' about that, listen and negotiate until there is 'resolution'?

Consider me irrational from this point on!

(just joking, but seriously this is a community issue and I don't see negotiating as valid when when it comes to base principles)

I seriously doubt that the avatars in SL qualify as child porn.

I fully accept that this is Linden Labs sim, to do with as they please.

I fully accept that real child abuse is abhorrent, and is never entered into willingly by the child.

However (yeah, you knew that was coming)...

It is the hypocrisy that bugs me. Linden labs are hiding behind the excuse that it is illegal - whilst at the same time still allowing various other activities that are JUST as illegal - I managed to lie my Avatar on a chopping block and have her cut up, screaming and writhing, just this evening. But that's fine, apparently.

They call it a sim...but it's a GAME. If nothing that is illegal in real life is allowed in a game, then you can kiss goodbye to Quake, Hitman, or any other FPS where you shoot things that bear a passing resemblance to real people. And why stop with games? Stealing is also illegal...but they get away with it in the remakes of The Italian Job, and the Ocean's Eleven...are we to ban those too?

Every time censorship is applied, it equates to the oppression of a minority. In this case, it is receiving popular support because the minority is universally reviled. But if this is allowed, then next on the list is someone else's "perversion". And before you leap to defend your particular perversion, let me just remind you that it is NOT your definition that counts - it is whoever makes the rules.

RL child abuse is abhorrent, but it does amaze me how in today's society 2 sight of 2 ADULTS engaged in consensual sex can be considered obscene as far depictions go in film and television, at least in this country, but exploding heads, bullett ridden bodies, and general mayhem and dismemberment are not.