I have had enough

Then your not in the game as much or in locations that their in....Sorry but I only say for what i seen.....Just the facts.

WHAT? Oh well... Anyone can run around any issue and build a belief. ex........( he all poo so there There for we are causing toxic gases as the poo degrades) Crazy as it might look so is your reply.Anyone can pile questen after questen rephase it double back etc...... Hence why this topic as it is now........

You know the FBI is running around these days, so i can see this happening.....


WORDS TO THE DOUBTERS..............................

Facts? Where? When have you provided facts? *scrolls through* Nope, none here.

Just conjecture, speculation, opinions, assumptions and, looking at the last couple of posts in this thread, nonsense and gibberish, all based on ignorance and blind adherence to what you WANT the truth to be, rather than what it IS.

Where are the facts to back up your assertions, Usagi?

I saw the Jailbait place, was only in world for a month I suspect if even that, and it seemed to be pushing the limit a bit in my view, perhaps it was even made by Lindens opposition or someone wanting a juicy storey.
There does seem to be more child play retailers about or perhaps I am just finding them now whilst searching for other more mainstream stuff.

I just lost ANY respect for your arguments Usagi. If you are discounting what Coyote said then you have moved from the already questionable argument of "child pornography incites child abuse" to the simply ridiculous one of "the ONLY thing that causes child abuse is child pornography"

Coyote is quite simply, 100% right. Child porn never turned any "normal" adult into a pedophile. If porn worked that way, the world would be a happier place - not because there'd be millions of pedophiles, but because all you'd have to do to "turn" a pedophile back would be to show them adult porn.

You're born with your sexuality - or at very least it develops at puberty. There were MANY varied (and frankly, quite horrible) experiments performed on homosexuals in the 1960's and 70's to try and make them "straight" - and the success ratio was precisely zero percent.

Trust me: a lotta us kids know about those places. We keep tabs with each other so we know where to avoid. There was Jailbait and Fae, USS Kinkster, Girl's Club, etc.



Oh, the herald has flogged the Sashimi Wishbringer story jes about to death, so I know all about dat one.

My point wasn't if this stuff exists, jes dat I've not seen any marked increase in the number of SL kids in world since last week's notecard. If anything, I've seen a decrease.

Mari

Yeah my guess is Age play - both sexual and non sexual rose at most at the same rate as SL population as a whole - so Proportionally not at all, or even proportionally decreased some.

Sure theres probably more kid avs in an absolute number, but on a percentage basis the same or less.

Just like furries, trekkies, whatever the interest.



Without the club age play will be a lot less visible to visiting members of the media since they are going to go after traffic sources, just like the Fox reporter did.

Since linden labs have banned ageplay because it is illegal in several countries then how about banning these other things since they are ALSO illegal.

Rape: That is illegal in just about every country I am aware of.

Homosexuality: This too, is illegal in several countries.

Gambling: Someone already brought this issue up, but it does happen to be illegal in some countries. Notably, in Islamic countries, but why should Linden Labs make a distinction between Islamic countries and other countries?

I think that griefers are a more major issue than ageplay. Nobody has ever forced me, or has bothered me about ageplay so I think that you would not see ageplay unless you specifically go look for it in sl.

You know.. You guys may say that now... But LL will probably take you seriously and do it... Might wana take a step back and think about what you say before hand... it could come true. Do we really wana ban people of their right to express their selves?I mean lets face it.. RL doesn't give people enough room to do so as it is. Lets try to take back what their trying to rob us of instead of giving them ideas.

They have not banned ageplay because it is illegal in several countries.

They have banned publicised ageplay because looking at it is illegal in several countries.

Thus there was a risk that people from those countries would have to avoid SL entirely because otherwise, they could be running a completely normal, not-even-sex-related shop or club or home that happens to be in a Mature sim - and then suddenly two child avatars walk in and start cybering and they've committed an RL crime by downloading that image. Ok, it's a bit paranoid, and maybe a judge wouldn't uphold it - but realistically, if you go to court on suspicion of being a paedophile and your SO and your own children and your friends find out about it, it doesn't really matter if you're found innocent.

Who what where? You know do you have childred? Do you worry about them? Unless you are a parent and or have family members that are under the legal age you would understang. Questenable? Well I say what your back tracking now worse........



This makes me ill and shows your infavor of such action. How can you say it does not lead to adult into a pedophile? Case sudies shows this to be fact. Yes there is also studies that say one is born with such illness. But Come On ......... Your supporting pedophile people now..



Do you understand anything about conditioning or enviromental psychoology? YEs we are born with our sexuality as I said above.......But it will looks like you know suppostingpedophile. Please stick to the issue and don`t bring in homosexuals? Your confusing the issue and making it look like i don`t like homosexuals.WRONG!!!!!!!!!!

Don`t ASSUME That because roll playing always under control of the person doing it. Because If you been in the game long enough you would notice, there is a population of them that nolonger have it. Do they care? No.why? becuase they lost what Real life is and what This VR is.........

Usagi

Looking at homosexual acts, or in fact, any sexual act, is illegal in some countries too.




There are some countries (mostly Islamic countries, but again there is no reason why Linden should discriminate between countries) where not only would seeing certain sexual acts be illegal, but it would also carry the death penalty.

That's a little presumptuous, don't you think? Assuming that he doesn't have children, then assuming that everyone that has kids, or younger siblings would understand. You're projecting your opinion again and you're just not correct.

First off, can you point to the studies? Yet again, you cite sources without any back up. I'm not saying that they don't exist, but you seem to enjoy saying "Studies say this" and "Everyone knows that" and quoting statistics etc without backing them up at all. I don't think I've ever seen you back up one of the definitive statements you pull out of your ass.

I notice you didn't respond to my earlier post about this. Funny, that.

Secondly, he wasn't defending paedophiles, he was informing you of something you obviously didn't know. There's a difference.

How do those apply to the subject? Please elaborate, rather than denigrate.



I have no idea what this last bit means. Care to calm down and write it a little better?
Are you saying that there are people that... God, I don't know... "A population of them that no longer have it"?
"They lost what Real life is and what this VR is?"
I don't get it, but I'm dying to find out what the heck you're talking about, because if you're saying what I think you're saying, I'm... I'm flabbergasted. Mind bottled.

So pleas, Usagi. Please can you expland on that last bit, 'cuz I'm fascinated.

It never ceases to amaze me how often people confuse the government's obligation to allow freedom of speech with the rights of private individuals or corporations.

Yes, the U.S. government is required to allow free speech. But in my own home, you will abide by my rules, and if you don't, I have the right to expel you.

Second Life is not owned by the government either.

There is an important distinction between "Pedophile" and "Child Molester"

Child molesters are criminals.

A pedophile is someone with "aberrant desires". That doesn't mean they have, or will attempt to, sexually abuse a minor.

Fast and loose use of the word "pedophile" unjustly paints some (likely many) innocent people with a criminal brush.

I don't care what madness goes on in peoples minds... if they haven't committed or attempted a crime... they deserve to be treated fairly and no differently than the rest of us.

Excellent point.

Good point. However...

1. Linden Labs policy that has caused this uproar in no way prohibits people from creating young avatars.

2. You're right that people look askance at young (or furry) looking avatars. But why do you think that occurs? Does it result from people thinking that looking cute and cuddly is disgusting, or does it result from cute and cuddly avatars in SL doing disgusting things? The fact that it's the latter is the hallmark of prejudice, but there it is.

Is that really true, or is it because LL chose to cite European law? I'm not a lawyer, but my perception is that child abuse and child pornography are very much illegal here.

It wouldn't surprise me though if our laws don't literally capture the full realm of crimes possible on the Internet. Our legislators have been tied up with much weighter matters, like flag burning (instead of dealing with issues that motivate people to burn our flag).

OH! You're trolling. Sorry. I didn't know. I thought you wanted to join the discussion. My bad.

I really wish I had figured out that you aren't interested in actual dialogue and were only interested in spouting nonsense and mistruths and attacking folks before I engaged you in conversation.

If you're going to potificate, how about actually answering questions instead of just attacking?

Ah, forget it. You aren't interested in this. Go to. Keep on talking your garbage. I'll just try to ignore your trolling.

That has to be the funniest post I've read yet on this topic. Linden Labs is a private company. Second Life is proprietary. They have the right to impose whatever rules, conditions, restrictions they wish to on the users of it, at anytime. As long as what they allow is within the bounds of any applicable local laws, no one, including the US Government, The ACLU or the Frigging UN, has any say in it. SL is Linden's House, and we play by their rules, or we leave.
And if the ACLU were to get involved in this, what small use I have for them would evaporate. There is plenty of Real Life injustice for them to be concerned with. All that can be asked of The Creators is that they impose their rules fairly, consistently, give sufficient notice of any changes. You may have an argument there. But to say banning ageplay or any activity in Second Life is a violation of your rights is nonsense.

Precisely.

/me shrugs at the topic. Now do you all see what I mean about it being impossible to change the mind of a forum troll, and how People with a lack of understanding about a topic are so quick to leap in and judge? It's caused a major downfall in SL that will only become worse as it continues. There is a difference between AgePlay and Pedophiles. Just like theres a difference between Furry and Beastiality, and how Homosexuality is not the same as a sex offender or what ever you want to call them... The fact that people judge these things to be something that aren't, only proves how F'ing stupid that they can be. To all those who are against ageplay (not pedophilia), i hope you happy... You've ruined other peoples SL, and i will be laughing my arse off when the same thing happens to you in return for it. It's only a matter of time before our old robotic automatic kill-switch company of LL makes another decision that directly hurts you in return.

"As long as I was in Washington I never met anybody that I thought was good enough, who knew enough or who loved enough to make sexual decisions for anybody else."
-Joycelyn Elders, Former Surgeon General of the United States, fired after advocating the promotion of masturbation as a preventative for teens getting involved with riskier forms of sexual activity... and one of my heroes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jocelyn_Elders