Gorean Question

I didn't attribute it to you. It's a quote from a Gor novel that pertains to the gender relations of that world.




I deserve violent treatment if they can't ignore something that's a bit odd for their fake internets world? ...whu?




Well, since I'm apparently to blame for finding Gorean lifestylers offensive then... *thinks* It's their fault for not going to the effort to truly understand my culture?

(You seem fond of violent imagery. Why is that?)

I really think it's group-hug time... c'mon you knuckleheads....

I'll cop to that, but John Norman is more of a romantic than I am. I don't see where that quote suggests misogyny, though. You're saying it's spiteful to have a spirited woman at your feet?

No, you deserve abuse for brilliantly making your first impression by doing what has incited violent treatment in the past, much like cruising crackhoods in a Lexus. You may think you're special, but to them, you look no different from any griefer pushing the limits and claiming ignorance. It's been done, it's been seen, the message has been made loud and clear, and yet you think that just because it hasn't been hand-delivered to you, you don't have to hear it? Get over yourself. You got what you had coming.

It would be, if they were to venture on your turf and not respect your home. But you don't see many making an effort to appear to even accidentally do that, do you?

Quite simply because it's a thrill. If there's ever a metaphor to emphasise My points, it surely isn't complete without injecting sex or violence into it. Don't get the impression that I'm doing it to shock or intimidate you, though I can appreciate that byproduct if that so happens to be the case, and I can get on with My life and take My pleasures otherwise. Further questions?

The implication that a woman's place is at a man's feet is questionable...that obviously works for some women, but making a seeming generalization on the topic is bound to raise some hackles. *shrug*

I wouldn't say it's a sweeping generalization, since it's limited to strong men and strong women.

Gay Bejeweled Nazi Bikers of Gor?





Sorry, that deserved it.

I said seeming generalization, but I can't say I love the attitude that a woman must be lacking in strength if she chooses to live on her own feet, rather than at a man's. If a woman's nature is to submit and that makes her happy, good, but I won't be thought of as weak for making a different choice.

Edit: No, I take that back...I won't be thought of as weak for being exactly who and what I'm meant to be. It's not a choice, any more than it is for true submissives.

I beg your pardon, then, I thought you had typoed.

If being thought of as weak is a concern for you, then one remedy is not to be anything that would make you appear weak. But if what you really are is not weak, then you surely wouldn't need concern yourself with being thought weak?

My point was that there are different types of strength, whereas your statement seemed to imply only one. Neither a submissive nature nor a lack thereof makes a woman inherently strong or weak...the goal is to be exactly who and what you were meant to be, whatever that might be.

No no, it was my response to what you;ve posted on here.

Now, roleplay and fantasy can be great, but when one starts making RL claims about the nature of sexuality on the basis of some hokum pokum silly fantasy books then it has as much bearing on real life situations as a Star Trek convention.

'Dressing up' is great, but the self-seriousness here would be hilarious, if it didn't produce such lop sided views about women.

I actually don't want to get into a flame thing, but I have to add to the voices who have sought to puncture the pomposity - real men and women are so much more interesting thean this comic book view, and, dare I say it, I am sure the whole realm of power play in relationships e.g. in D/S dynamics etc is cheapened by this wacko mythologising.

That's me done - promise

Well, maybe that is true of the men of Earth, but men on Gor practice a different modality.

Again...you just totally miss the point, don'tcha? So, let me try to walk you through it even though it has been said over and over by many here in one way or another.

Gor is a series of books about a fictional world that is Counter Earth...the culture is different, the landscape is different, the times are different, the food sources are different and the circumstances of their survival are different. Earth values and customs are not acknowledged there because there is only the tiniest interaction with creatures of earth, who they find LAUGHABLE. You would know this IF you read the books. Slavery there has different meaning than the context that you understand it.

I'm quite certain that your paradigm of slavery does not involve concepts of love and devotion, of honoring a woman's whole being, including her sexuality which she is not only allowed to embrace with the same gusto that would classify and shame her as a whore or slut by earth standards....she is MADE to embrace her feminity and sexuality and is admired for it. It probably doesn't address concepts being in perfect harmony with yourself and your environment to the point of being joyful.

So, drawing similarities between slavery as it is depicted in the novels vs the consensual slavery of bdsm relationships or the social-economic system of slavery whereby people are deprived of their personal freedom and are forced into unpaid labor or even the horrors of human trafficking of underage children that still goes on today can't be done adequately without reading the sources. And that is why you are told to go read them for yourself...THEN draw your own conclusions, which may or may not change, but at least they will be INFORMED.

Why, thank ya Massah...err...Missy...thank you for your permission. That is mighty generous of you.



#1 This thread wasn't started to defend the concept of genuine slavery in a real-world context, but it was certainly highjacked into that by those with an agenda. IN FACT, for the second time I will attempt to bring it back to where it started. Two people who are well versed in the books and Gorean culture WANTED to go role play in that manner and were disappointed by the apparent bastardization of Gor in SL...that it is so warped and corrupted that it is unrecognizable. Which should drive home a point for consideration: if you are going to judge Gor by what you have encountered in SL, you may get a distorted view of Gor unless you take the time to read the books to make a comparison.

#2 I didn't quote the books to make political statements. I quoted the books to show you that there may be differences in slavery as it is in the books compared to your frame of reference which might explain why so many women flock to be there....including you...why so many woman find it intriguing...including you...you naughty girl.

#3 Who's 'real world' context are we speaking about? Yours? Who signed up for a political argument? Not I, though you seem hell bent on having one and have seemed that way from the beginning. But, if you want to go there, be prepared to speak about your REAL WORLD experiences with me, because I'm sure going to speak about mine and my real world experiences extend FAR beyond any books written by a hack writer who churned out a series of harlequin romances for men.

Lol then there are no Goreans

While you're entitled to you opinion. This isnt Gor where this discussion is being held, and the implication that the only way a woman can be strong is to be at the feet of a strong man is insulting.

I hate to burst any D/S practicioners' bubble but D/S was never and will never be the primary mode of relationships between men and women, between men and men or between women and women.

Therefore to assume such an elitist stance based on what is essentially an alternative lifestyle (both D/s and gor are defenitely alternative to mainstream) is to be basically fanatical on the subject.

I know those to whom D/S is right for them and helps them find what they need. But I meet only a handful who are basiclly D/S snobs.

You've never read Gay Bejeweled Nazi Bikers of Gor ?

Make it a group grope and I'm in.

Thank you so much for this link! I started laughing at "She was still beautiful" and haven't stopped yet.

Ehem. I think it would be sporting of Me to permit you to do the research of what I've posted here to actually substantiate this 'response'. If you can do that, then I'll address that, and if you can't, then it's alright for Me to make fantastical interrogations about your supposed beliefs, the shape of your head, the state of your orifices and how your mother dresses you.

Just to start, Tasha, I love you. Seriously. You made an excellent, step by step, explination of how Gor should not be compared to rl slavery. Your post was great, and it'd be great if people actually read it before going on and on about how slavery is bad.

Yes people, rl slavery IS BAD.

Gor, IS NOT RL. People who claim to be "rl goreans" are liars because Gor DOESN'T REALLY EXIST. Its a FANTASY WORLD. Something that people use in a roleplay format to either get their jollies or just have fun in. I role play Gor. I love it. First guy irl who says my place is at his feet, though, gets punched in the face. Because I spent time in the military and I have delt with little boys and their masochism quite enough. However....THAT DOESN'T RELATE TO MY RP GOR LIFE.

People really need to learn the difference between RL and SL. Comparing the two is sometimes laughable. Case in point, RL slavery vs SL/Gor slavery. Refer back to my previous post. Gor practices a RITUALIZED form of slavery. It is not directly comparable to current or past human slavery here on Earth.

Lastly THIS THREAD HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY A GOR VS ANTI-GOR DEBATE. The original post was by a read Gorean looking for a decent place to ROLEPLAY on Gor. Thanks yet again to people who can't see past their own self rightious views, the thread has been warped. Next time, instead of using this as a forum to scream and yell about how someone elses choice of game is horrible and wrong, you just skip past and go post about something relevant to you. Let the man ask where to rp. Go post about furry play or age play, both of which are HIGHLY questionable as well, if you check the forums. Why can't people just leave each other's fun alone? Don't you have anything better to do? Leave us our fantasy fun time and stop trying to make us look evil because we like our rp. This has gotten ridiculous.

GO FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO WITH YOUR TIME.

~Dream

I hadn't mentioned this before because I expected someone else's disregard for the truth in their assumptions to make the revelation sweeter, but tasha is My slave irl. She has been rigorously kajira trained irl, and was even the rl model for the kajira animations that went into the collars I make. Her training was not easy for either of us, and undertaking it was a greater investment of emotion, energy, time and effort than most of you can even conceive of going into your relatioinships. And I had made it even more difficult for Myself by cultivating her domme streak long before I put her in a collar.

While she may have a more romantic perspective of her condition, neither of us can deny that we have a stronger bond than before I committed to enslaving her without compromise. And training has made her no less who she already was, but better disciplined, more graceful, and more possessed.

The institution of slavery as it exists on fantastical Gor goes far beyond the personal d/s dynamic. Whether it's right or wrong is a repeatedly raised issue that I've repeatedly ignored. There's no point in it; if you came into the discussion with your value judgement, you're going to leave with it, and accuse Me of being the fanatical one the entire time.

As for Gorean culture and philosophy just being an RP, I don't completely agree, it can be practiced IRL and there are some valuable principles in it. But if you are in it only for the RP, at least you can commit to the role on it's own terms, without revising it to make your Earth-cultivated sensibilities comfortable. Otherwise, what is it that draws you to Gorean RP that you can't get out of any other RP setting?

You know, sod subtlety.

Replace "man" with "white" and "woman" with "black." We don't choose our gender any more than our race. To advocate slavery based on the lottery of birth (*not* RP slavery, which isn't slavery anyway since it's two consenting adults) is just sick. It's wrong. You can justify it any way you want, but guaranteed the exact same arguments were made for racial slavery back in the day.




I don't think that violence has to be accepted. There are certain things that should not incite violent treatment, which include wandering the internet dressed as a robotic rabbit. If you want to defend violence against robotic rabbits, you have to accept that violence is okay and that robotic rabbits don't deserve basic respect. If Goreans want to treat other people badly, fine. Do in closed sims and stop inviting people in to look around.




Um, yes. Yes, you do. Women in kneeling walk poses wearing slave clothes pretty much everywhere in SL. You talking about yourself with Capital Letters on this forum.

Viagra?


Other than that... meh, I can't be bothered anymore. So I'll just make the sweeping observation that Gor is basically Mein Kampf with added sex scenes and go join that group hug from earlier in the thread.

Back to the thread on irregular capitalization ... I get really pissed off whenever anyone starts talking to me and capitalizes the "m" in "me". Do it with your slaves if they like that, but address me in that way and the reaction you get will be entirely negative.

Do your words not represent your views? It is argumantatively weak to a) state a point of view and then b) claim, when that view is countered, that the other person is being presumptuous about what your views are!

Speculation about the state of my orifices is uneccessary, thanks. Kindly don't be personally abusive towards me (small 'm') - I am at least engaging with the content of your posts.

There is the stench of fundamentalism about the 'hardliner Gor' attitude. By all means play, and play seriously, but know that it is a cartoonish world, that mythology.

So that's the issue with Goreans, they weren't loved enough by their respective mothers and since this is a PG forum I can't really even go there with the orifice comment.

note: it would be very easy to take the above quote from Prodigal out of context, please read her post above to get the full context [/b]


Essentially Goreans, get over yourself you think your all high and righteous because you can rp some author's books in such a way that they fit your little narrow reality and that you can use them to fulfill your little BDSM wet dream and then you have the nerve... yes the nerve to complain when people call you on it.

There are good Goreans I know there are and several of them have posted here, however the militant ones (and unfortunately I can't even name names here of previous posters for fear of linden, mod, and/or user reprisal instantly peg anyone who criticizes their right to go around with slave girls at their beck and call and rp it in general chat off their private sims at clubs, at slingo events... etc and while not fully RP it still in full public chat rp their master slave routine.

Now back on the topic of the OP, unfortunately in any RP there are going to be a huge number of interpretations on how to roleplay and there is going to be some "chaffing" between those who agree with that interpretation and those who don't but my suggestion is to explore the different places to get a feel for them and to try to find one that feels right to you.


I know that quote looks awfully out of proportion and read the original post to get the full context of it but