BOT places! List them here!

No no no. Popularity in anyone's terms, including LL's, is what the word actually means. If something or someone is popular, it/they are liked. That's what it actually means in everyone's understanding. You can't understand the word but say that LL means something different by it. If they mean something different, they should have said so in the Popular Places tab, where they actually used the word.

The true events that I wrote about did not make the places I visited for lengths of time popular with me - not in any way. I didn't take LMs because I had no intention of going back to them, and I didn't even want to be in them in the first place. The point being that there are many reasons why people on parcels do not represent popularity for the parcels, and in some cases they do represent the opposite. Measuring traffic (avatar minutes) does not measure popularity, and it never did.

Also, popularity has never meant quality, and I haven't suggested that it does.

weird lol

LL is looking at the Places tab, and will likely come up with something a bit different before long. Whether or not it will level the playing field to any degree, isn't known. They were going to put the All search results in it, filtered by Places, which would make it a bit more level, but it's still subject so people's optimisation knowledge.

If I were you, I would continue doing what you said, and I would also aim at getting top rankings in the All search. There, you can do very well, and you are not as reliant on other places not including your main search terms in their parcel descriptions. Because there probably aren't so many direct competitors in your field, you could be right at the top, or very near it. There's a sticky at the top of this Resident Answers forum about it. If you haven't already read it, I suggest doing so.

I rest my case lmao.

Someday you can be a real boy

You can keep saying that over and over Phil and it won't make it true. I'm talking about the intent and the reason the metric was created in the first place, not how effective it actually is in determining genuine popularity. I'd agree that it's highly ineffective, especially since people like you have gamed it into uselessness, but if you use that as a justification for abusing it (like you're doing) you've entered an endless loop of circular logic. "Traffic is broken because people abuse it. I abuse it because it's broken." As justifications go they don't get much more pitiful than that. I

The problem is that people are NOT paying good money, at least for premium accounts. If free accounts didn't exist, there would be fewer bots.

No doubt there are people paying for premium accounts. But LL doesn't seem to place much value in garnering more premium accounts. Although my preference would be to go premium and own mainland, renting from estate owners makes much more sense on a number of levels. Like estate owners have rules that prevent residents from annoying their neighbors, whether its prohibitions against bots or scripts that lag out the sim or prohibitions against my neighbors making a 70 meter tall Mr. Potato Head homestead.

And estate land is cheaper.

So bots aren't an issue. If they were, my landlord would take care of it, and if she didn't, I'd find another. I've had no issues with sim lag or annoying neighbors, and can only recall once having a problem logging on in the past few months, which was cleared up rapidly.

When I decide to venture out and go shopping or looking around, traffic bots, at least are counter-productive. If the sim is unpleasant in anyway, I go somewhere else.

I'd be quite happy to go premium if it made any sense. But as it is now, it doesn't. If bots are causing you a problem, it just confirms that premium makes no sense. And if you aren't premium, what gives you the right to complain?

go see and im em..80% are bots night after night

lol weeeiiirrrd

Alas, some people need things said over and over before they finally grasp the truth. I'm only talking about what the figure *actually* is, and not what it was intended to be. If you can wrap your brain around that, we might get somewhere.

Traffic is a count of avatar minutes on a parcel, regardless of whether or not each of the avatars likes the parcel - as in popularity. It has nothing to do with a parcel being 'popular', as I've shown more than once in this thread. It's self-evident, and shouldn't need repeating.

Aha. We have some agreement here, except for the silly "pitiful" bit. Like you, I'd prefer that it isn't manipulated - you probably know that. But there was no way it wasn't going to happen, and most people who want to succeed in business here, have to join in with the manipulation, or take a very long time for sales to build up, or not succeed at all. I'm not talking about play/hobby businesses that most people have, where success is being able to pay the tier and maybe have a bit extra from it. I'm talking about real RL businesses, where profit levels actually matter. Somebody even wrote in a recent thread that it takes a year or two to build up a decent business in SL, and I've seen that thought written before in this forum. It doesn't, of course.

It's very easy for play/hobby business owners, like yourself, and people who don't even own businesses, to be all pseudo-moralistic, and to say things like, "I'd never do it that way", when they are not in the position of earning real money from SL - and never likely to be. Those are just words. Let's see how pseudo-moral they are when it's their livelihood, and they have a mortgage to pay, bills to pay, etc. - when it's a livelihood.

You would do well to accept that SL is not, and never will be, the sort of idealistic world that you and a few others here would like. It wasn't intended to be like that, and it won't be like that. When you accept that other people use SL who don't think the way you do about the place, and learn to avoid the parts of SL that you don't approve of, then you'll have fewer thing to complain about. You are arguing against the unstoppable tide of people doing things to make their businesses more visible and more successful. It's your problem - nobody else's.

The most successful businesses in SL, with longevity, do not use or need bots and are not relying on an influx of naive newbies. These generate long term word of mouth popularity among long time users.

No one who gets it, is going to like quick buck scammers and deceptive practices. You would do much better for yourself to establish a reputation based in honesty. But that doesn't seem to enter your mind.

You are in the same category with the other scammers in SL and apparently like it that way and see nothing beyond that. That makes you a poor businessman, even though you apparently imagine you are a smart businessman-----it's very foolish being a bottom feeder.

Such a profound statement. Certainly indicative of exactly why so many people are seeking an alternative to Second Life.

Once, Chip, you chided me for wanting a world that didn't appeal to the lowest common denominator. Phil here would be a prime example of the sort of indivdual whom I would exclude. Because you can't have an idealistic utopia with a bunch of fucktards scamming for a buck running around. Phil makes that abundantly clear.

Phil does makes me happy for OpenSim, however, and the possiblity of having a virtual exsistence that excludes him and his ilk.

Edited to ask a question maybe someone can cut and paste since I have the delightful distinction of being one of only two people on Phil's ignore list:

How, since you werent even around this platform in 2003, could you possibly know WHAT Second Life was intended to be?

"It's the Matrix without the Evil Machines".... that was what was on the front page of this very website when I joined. Sounded kinda utopian. Maybe that IS what Second Life was meant to be, until someone figured out how to make a lot of money with the evil machines.

So maybe, just maybe, it's you Phil who doesn't understand what Second Life was intended to be.

*Really* weird this time lol. I know you know nothing about business, and I'm feeling in a generous sort of mood, so I'll educate you a little. No need to thank me - consider it my good deed for the day

1. The most successful businesses in SL are those that make the most money from SL. (don't you now wish you'd thought of that hehe)

2. You are correct that businesses don't need bots and such, but bots and such add to the profitiablity of SL businesses. (another obvious one that managed to escape you)

3. I'm not aware of any businesses, bots or not, that rely on naive newbies. I certainly don't. (did you have a bad experience when you were an SL child or something?)

4. What generates "long term word of mouth popularity among long time users" is quality product and service - not the lack of bots. (ha! didn't think of that, did you?)

I agree. That's why I'm not a quick buck scammer who uses deceptive practises.

Oh but it does, and I *have* a reputation for quality products and great service - a service that is based on honest customer care. (you're not doing very well yet, are you?)

Ah well, y'see, I don't think I'm a "smart businessman" - what gave you that idea? I'm a smarter businessman than you appear to be, judging by your posts, but that doesn't make me smart. And I'm perfectly happy if some people wrongly think of me as a scammer. If you are representative of such people, then I am *VERY* happy with it. I value the views of my customers, and not the views of weirdos. Can you hear me laughing at you? I am, y'know

Ah, now we're back to the "well all the other kids were doing it, mom!" argument, and yes, Phil, it's pitiful. It's also disingenuous in the extreme. You have two choices in life about how to relate to the world around you. You either make it better or you make it worse. You can't choose to make it worse and call those who choose to make it better foolish idealists and then claim you wish the world was a better place. All you're doing is transferring the blame for your actions to everyone else - it's not your fault because other people were already abusing it. It's not your fault because traffic was never an effective measure in the first place. It's not your fault because you have bills to pay. It's not your fault because honest people are just overly idealistic. Pitiful.



News flash for you, Phil: I do this stuff for a living. I don't have a day job. My income comes entirely from freelance art and animation and has for the last 15 years. I have a mortgage payment to make every month, and I wish I made more income from SL than I do these days. It would make paying my bills every month easier. But here's the difference between you and me, Phil. I won't sell out my principles for profit. You will.

Wow. It would be glorious if this thread could magically end right here:

You are free to call it what you want, Chip. It's no skin off my nose. I said before that I laugh all the way to the bank every month, and I do it by using normal business methods - those that you find pitiful. Oh well. I guess the business world isn't for you.

I didn't say that I "wish the world was a better place" - you're making things up. I said I'd rather that traffic hadn't been manipulated. I've also shouted to get rid of traffic. They are nothing like what you said I said. I rather not run the bots on a second computer, that's all. I am perfectly happy to compete in search though - it's something I've enjoyed doing for years. Traffic is the way to compete in the Places tab, that's all. You shouldn't go around making things up, y'know. It's dishonest

Oh, btw. It wasn't me who used the words "the ideal" when referring to SL. I just reply to it.

I was referring to SL businesses. I think it was obvious. I guess we have something in coomon then - I won't sell out my principles either - especially not for money that I don't even need. My principles are different to yours - they encompass reality. Yours are just idealistic, and they bring the pathetic holier-than-thou attitude in you. I sleep very good too

hehe. I think they are taking in turns to look foolsih, Zaphod.

Not really my line of thinking here Phil. I happen to agree with them on this issue. You've really shown your true colors in this thread since it started. If people like you are the future of Second Life, I truly cannot wait for alternatives. I'll be the first one out the door.

Well, I'm here for the foreseeable future, so I'll bid you farewell.

My colors were shown loooong before this thread though. The moment they get personal or insulting, they get it back from me - hopefully with interest. That's one of my colors, and I feel quite justified in waving it. Another of my colors is that anyone who wants to discuss/debate serously, gets serious discussion/debate from me, as has also been seen in this thread. I'm happy with my colors.

I think that an honest look back through this thread would reveal that the vast majority of insults have originated from you. And you have a funny way of framing "debate".. well, not funny if debate simply means "I'm right, the rest of you are wrong, and fools".

Peace

If you actually look back and examine the thread, instead of just thinking about it, you will see that all my barbs and insults have been responses to those who insulted me first. Apart from 2 threads months ago, that has always been true - someone first, followed by my reponse. I make no apologies for responding to insults and barbs in like manner.

[added]
As it happens, I *am* right about traffic != popularity. It's self-evident. Those who can't see it, well.... whatever you say. I think it's more true that they don't want to see it, or it would weaken their pseudo-moralistic arguments. And it's nothing to do with "the rest of you". It's only the 2 or 3 who want to argue the point. I've no idea what "the rest of you" think.

OMG people, let Phil have his last word, its all he has. Let him see this and then he can point his finger and say... "nyaa nyaa Im right no one can compete with my drivel"


Go for it Phil, I wont reply hehehe

LOL. They won't stop until they're bored of it. And then we'll all start agin the next time.

Oh, bullshit. It's because of selfish, greed driven people like you that traffic is what it is today. Yeah, you're right, traffic != popularity. Nobody is arguing against you on that point. How convenient for you to disregard the entire history of the dwell system, and what it began as, and yes, what it has been gamed into being today, by people like you. Simply stating that traffic is not equal to popularity, without regard to its complete historical context, is disingenuous at best, when attempting to defend your abuse of it.

And be honest, the behavior we're talking about here is specifically gaming traffic to push your business up higher in the search results than your competitors, and then calling them fools for not stooping to your level of gutter feeding.

Having honest debators is a prerequisite to having an honest debate, Phil. On that count, you're pretty well disqualified.