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Mickey Vandeverre
See you Inworld
Join date: 7 Dec 2006
Posts: 2,542
08-02-2008 12:18
I'm a frequent shopper for over 2 years. I didn't even know what a bot was. I doubt that I will read a sign posted in Phil's store about bots being present, nor will it make a difference.....especially since I didn't even know what one was. I'm there to shop.

If the lag is bad at a store....I go get a cup of coffee, while things rez....if their items are worth looking at.....or if it's so bad, I can't move.....I just scan around. I still purchase because I want their stuff.

If the items are quality.....I don't really care how I end up there.....and most likely won't even remember how I ended up there....whether it was from a classified ad keyword...high traffic search....or a pic from someone's profile.....and judging the ethics of what method was used....is not on my agenda for the day.

Bottom line is....if you don't have the quality product that will produce a sale with whatever traffic you create....what difference does it make.
Koriana Magic
Winged Zebra Unicorn
Join date: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 44
08-02-2008 12:21
From: Phil Deakins
Why?


Educate your visitors, let them know that you care that they have a lag free experience while you boost your traffic ratings.
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 12:22
From: Phil Deakins
hehe. I wouldn't give up if you were even trying to make serious points for discussion, but you stopped doing that after the first set of questions. The later ones just appeared to be picky for the sake of being picky.


I wasn't.

They clarified your position.

In other words, how can one debate ethics and morals when the person with whom they are debating has none?

See?
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:24
From: Koriana Magic
Educate your visitors, let them know that you care that they have a lag free experience while you boost your traffic ratings.
Why?
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:25
From: Cheyenne Marquez
I wasn't.

They clarified your position.

In other words, how can one debate ethics and morals when the person with whom they are debating has none?

See?
huh? We were debating ethics and morals? lol

whatever.
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Koriana Magic
Winged Zebra Unicorn
Join date: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 44
08-02-2008 12:25
From: Phil Deakins
Why?


Why not if it doesn't affect your bottom line to let them know?
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 12:27
From: Mickey Vandeverre
Bottom line is....if you don't have the quality product that will produce a sale with whatever traffic you create....what difference does it make.


A better bottom line would be ...

How would you ever know if there was a better quality product than the one you bought at the bot-infested location, if you were not able to visit the lower, higher-quality, location due to the bot-infested location's deceptive traffic measuring tactics, that caused you to see it before the better quality location?
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:27
From: Koriana Magic
Why not if it doesn't affect your bottom line to let them know?
Yes but why?
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:28
From: Cheyenne Marquez
A better bottom line would be ...

How would you ever know if there was a better quality product than the one you bought at the bot-infested location, if you were not able to visit the lower, higher-quality, location due to the bot-infested location's deceptive traffic measuring tactics, that caused you to see it before the better quality location?
Don't you shop around? ;)
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 12:28
From: Phil Deakins
huh? We were debating ethics and morals? lol

whatever.


Yes.

Congratulations and welcome to the thread.
Koriana Magic
Winged Zebra Unicorn
Join date: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 44
08-02-2008 12:31
From: Phil Deakins
Yes but why?



Because we both know it would affect your bottom line, it's one thing to come to a forum where only a small portion of the user base is active and state you use bots. But being open about it in world with a sign is a different matter.

Of course you could put it up and leave it there for a month and see how well your sales do and prove that wrong, but that depends on how sure you are about the consumers not caring about the bots being used to boost traffic.

Consider it the in world version of coming on the forums and admitting to being one that used alts to boost traffic.
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:33
From: Cheyenne Marquez
Yes.

Congratulations and welcome to the thread.
And there was me thinking we were discussing traffic bots. Silly me.

Not many people think that it's a matter of ethics or morals, but you can if you wish. I'm sure it will make you happy ;)
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 12:34
From: Phil Deakins
I'm sure it will make you happy ;)


Yes.

I win.
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:36
From: Koriana Magic
Because we both know it would affect your bottom line, it's one thing to come to a forum where only a small portion of the user base is active and state you use bots. But being open about it in world with a sign is a different matter.
We both don't know that at all. You are guessing. At least I have my openness in converstaion with my customers to go on, but you don't have anything.

From: Koriana Magic
Of course you could put it up and leave it there for a month and see how well your sales do and prove that wrong, but that depends on how sure you are about the consumers not caring about the bots being used to boost traffic.
Or I could not put one up at all. You haven't given me a good reason. The only reason that I can imagine is that you think it will hurt me. If you do have a good reason, I'll ask again - why?
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:37
From: Cheyenne Marquez
Yes.

I win.
lol whatever.

So we're all agreed then. Traffic != popularity. I'm glad that we've reached concensus on that.
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Koriana Magic
Winged Zebra Unicorn
Join date: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 44
08-02-2008 12:43
From: Phil Deakins
We both don't know that at all. You are guessing. At least I have my openness in converstaion with my customers to go on, but you don't have anything.

Or I could not put one up at all. You haven't given me a good reason. The only reason that I can imagine is that you think it will hurt me. If you do have a good reason, I'll ask again - why?


Because it allows you to prove that you are right, but you risk being proven wrong.

What I do know is you're not going to do it. Because you see all these threads on the forums and know there is a lot of anti-bot sentiments in the player base. And there is that nagging fear that you're going to lose profits having a sign up stating you use them.

Everything I've seen you post on this resolves around:
1 - Whatever LL's original plans traffic is what you think it should be not what they wanted it to be (never mind it is that due to missuses and abuses of the system)
2 - Profit comes first (nothing else, except staying within the white lines of the rules)
3 - Everyone does it so it's fine if I do it (aka the going with the traffic flow, so why is the officer giving me a ticket syndrome)
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:50
From: Koriana Magic
Because it allows you to prove that you are right, but you risk being proven wrong.
But I don't need to prove that I'm right. Why don't you prove that I'm wrong?

From: Koriana Magic
What I do know is you're not going to do it. Because you see all these threads on the forums and know there is a lot of anti-bot sentiments in the player base. And there is that nagging fear that you're going to lose profits having a sign up stating you use them.
I see all these threads, and the same old people in them, plus people in them that don't agree with you. I see a few anti-bot people here, that's all.

From: Koriana Magic
Everything I've seen you post on this resolves around:
1 - Whatever LL's original plans traffic is what you think it should be not what they wanted it to be (never mind it is that due to missuses and abuses of the system)
Then you are mistaken about what I think - you haven't read properly.

From: Koriana Magic
2 - Profit comes first (nothing else, except staying within the white lines of the rules)
Not always, but on the bots issue, yes. I do refunds, I replace, I sawp old for new, I harm nobody, etc. etc. I do all sorts of things where I can't be accused of profits come first. You've no idea what I do. All you know about is what I think about bots - and that, if you insult me, I will insult you back ;)
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 12:50
From: Phil Deakins
lol whatever.

So we're all agreed then. Traffic != popularity.


It used to but not anymore because you and your ethically and morally challenged traffic-bot loving business promoting peoples broke it :(
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 12:59
From: Cheyenne Marquez
It used to but not anymore because you and your ethically and morally challenged traffic-bot loving business promoting peoples broke it :(
It never did. Did you miss those parts of the thread?
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 13:04
From: Phil Deakins
It never did. Did you miss those parts of the thread?


You mean this part ...

From: Phil Deakins
And I've said more than once that, as a measure of popularity, it appeared to work back when I arrived. The places listed in Popular Places really did have plenty of people in them ...
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 13:18
From: Cheyenne Marquez
You mean this part ...
No, not that part. Notice the word "appeared" in that quote. It does have a meaning, y'know ;)
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Drongle McMahon
Older than he looks
Join date: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 494
08-02-2008 13:19
From: Phil Deakins
...Mine are high in sky, and out of sight, so that they don't cause any lag for anyone in the sim...
Now here's a really interesting question at last. They are high in the sky, but why do their little green arrows all point downwards?
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 13:20
From: Drongle McMahon
Now here's a really interesting question at last. They are high in the sky, but why do their little green arrows all point downwards?
That *is* an interesting question. If you are in sl now, I'll tp you to them.
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
08-02-2008 13:23
From: Phil Deakins
No, not that part. Notice the word "appeared". It does have a meaning, y'know ;)


hahah ... thats the best response you could come up with after that long delay?

I could sense you sweating about how to reply to that one from a distance.

Sad how you were caught in your own froth.

Even sadder how you tried to explain it away.
Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
08-02-2008 13:28
From: Cheyenne Marquez
hahah ... thats the best response you could come up with after that long delay?

I could sense you sweating about how to reply to that one from a distance.

Sad how you were caught in your own froth.

Even sadder how you tried to explain it away.
You flatter yourself, Cheyenne. I do do other things that sit and watch for posts to reply to. Like now I am in a IM, for instance, and have been in several IMs during this page of the thread. My reply was correct. I said that it appeared to work back then, and I've said it more than once. No points there for you - sorry :)
_____________________
Prim Savers - almost 1000 items of superbly crafted, top quality, very low prim furniture, and all at amazingly low prices.

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Seymour/213/120/251/
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