BOT places! List them here!

I'm well versed in your argument, Phil. It just amuses me to watch you split hairs, as if it made any difference.

It was a response to Colette saying that as I wasn't here are the time, I didn't know about it. She was wrong, and I pointed it out. Something wrong with that?

Incidentally, it's not splitting hairs. Any hair splitting was done by Colette who likes to stir things, as you know.

Every ad no matter how well done and professional is unsightly to someone.

It also refers to farms of ads in a network that are used to boost sales at other locations (ie: billboards)

Not all ad farms are for sale, many are in high traffic areas and the owner makes lindens from those paying for the ads.

Yes, but since many argue what is done does not affect others, well it does. The ad plot to use your term still devalues the surrounding land, bots no matter how well used are still burning up bandwidth and sim resources.

And yes they affect the system, as in the "arms race" that LL is trying to counter before it starts. The gaming of the systems has resulted in LL making changes due to the bots, ad farms, and other ways the systems have been manipulated and abused.

Umm Phil.

LL was using traffic as a metric for measuring popularity. So they measure the one as a basis for rating a location as popular due to visits and time spent.

The original measure was the vote tool, which was gamed to the point it was removed.

Now steps are already being implemented to remove traffic completely since it's being gamed.

See the pattern?

LL keeps underestimating greed

They didn't take into consideration at first that people would manipulate the systems as much as they did. So now they are working on systems that block attempts of greedy souls from gaming the systems

Funny how each time a bot thread comes up, people try to connect running bots with the word scamming, and dishonest. Where it is using the possibilities of SL, in an open way. Everybody can see the bots on the map, they are high up in the air because that way they do not cause any lag, but still very visible.

Now I have been here just for a year, and when I came in, camping was more popular then it is now. It was a way for business owners to get more traffic. More and more business owners came to the conclusion that running bots had the same result, but a lot cheaper, but influencing traffic was already present with camping. Which at a lot of parcels was also high up in the air, I might add.

So a new business owner comes in, and wants to compete with the existing creators. Who use either camping or bots, to get noticed in search. The only way to compete in an effective way, is to do the same thing: get traffic. Which has absolutely nothing to do with scamming, it is nothing more then using the available options. No backdoors, no cheating, simply using the options that are available to anyone.

Now I do not think traffic bots are a good thing. For me, they may remove traffic as soon as possible, though that is postponed by a jira from one of the forum members. Even Phil, traffic bot runner himself, stated several times that he would love traffic removed so he can shut down his bots. But as long as traffic is there, he and several other business owners will keep running the bots. And even though Phil is competition, I do understand him too well.

So, people, you are all entitled to your own opinion about bots and bot runners. But you have no right to call a bot runner a scammer. To me, it is the most childish way to try and prove you are right in any discussion. But then again, someone claiming to have "won" the discussion, does not understand the way discussing works anyway.

One thing to remember: There is about a dozen people speaking out against bots, here on the forums. Peanuts, compared to the SL population. Ever been to for example Phils store? Always real visitors, who couldn't care less about the bots in the air. So next time you say that so many people are having problems with the bots, think of that. Your feelings and opinion about bots are right. But statements about most people disliking bots, makes no sense at all.

Cheers, Marcel

Koriana,
You cannot blame Phil or any other bot runner for the faults of LL. Every serious business owner will use the systems available to optimize his results. Has nothing to do with greed, simply with doing business. If you really think that you can have a successful business by creating stuff and sit back, think again.

Traffic never had a chance. Any company could have seen that coming, LL as well. If the amount of people on your land makes you easier to be found in a search: make sure there are people on your land. Pay them for it (camping). With unlimited free accounts, running alts is even easier (and cheaper).

As I said in my last posting, its simply a way of competing with the tools available, and used by your competitors as well. Phil could make a statement by removing his bots today. Which would make a dozen people on the forum happy. The majority would not care though. His sales would drop. So tell me, why should he again?

About working on systems to block gaming? Forget it. The new Search can be influenced as well. Any Search can. That is called optimizing. New Search will get rid of traffic, get rid of bots. But there will be other ways to influence, and that will be bitched about in here as well. Take paying for picks as an example: no strain to the systems (most popular argument against bots), great for people to earn a few bucks, but also frowned upon. Its not "fair". Come on, SL is put in the market as a platform where business can be run, not some utopia.

No matter how eager you are to win this discussion, you won't. You have an opinion, other have a different one. Learning from each other is perfect, trying anything to prove you are right makes no sense. You are not right. Neither am I. We just have different opinions.

Marcel

If the bots proponents had any business sense, they wouldn't defend/promote the usage of bots as much as they do.
Imagine if you actually convince the opponents of using bots too. The end result would be more competition with bots, and your bots would become less and less important, and your search rating would drop.

We call it deceptive because it is.

It's the same as a store/mall boasting of X number of people walking through the door, when most of them are the actual employees.


In fact many vendors have been burned by bots/campers because they use the traffic rating of a mall in the decision for placing said vendor there.

Much like a consumer using place search will take the traffic rating into consideration if they don't understand that it's been gamed (not optimized, but manipulated) to the point of being worthless.

As is the new search is being tweaked, one word is that only paid accounts will affect the picks use in it. And I would say dump that for just the parcel keywords alone being applied (not items on parcel, just the parcel.. but even that can be gamed in some ways)

And well maybe one day if I'm bored or if someone else wants to they can sit at his store and ask Phil's visitors how they feel about bots and doing business with bot operators.

@Damanios: The only bot runner defending the use of bots, is Phil, the rest is silent. That same Phil is the person why clarified how to optimize for search as well, which benefits all people who want their parcel listed in search. It is even a sticky. So you can call that not having business sense, I'd rather call it extremely helpful.

@Koriana: We... excuse me, I did not know you were talking for more then one person. But I do not mind discussing with all of you behind that one account.

If people open shops in malls that use camping/bots for traffic, they should look better. Neither bots nor camping pads can be hidden. Follow the green dots. So they have not been burned by bots, they have been burned by ignorance.

Picks are indeed only useful for search all, when the person has Payment Info On File (or Used). Thats not just word, thats a fact. Without PIOF, you have no html page, so there is no inbound link for the parcel your pick is for. That is why I pay out only for people with PIOF, with my Pick Reward System.

I intend to optimize as well as possible for Search All. Resulting in a 3th place at the moment, and still room for improvement. Whether you call that gaming or not, is not important. Important is that potential customers can find me easily. And they can.

But feel free to sit at my store and ask people how they feel about me using a Pick Reward system, and optimize my search ranking, which might be scamming as well in your eyes. The traffic you add is welcome. Only if I notice you harrass my customers, you will earn yourself an AR and a ban.
But really... would you perform such an action and still take yourself serious? Having an opinion is one thing, acting like a child another. The first I respect, the second...

Umm Koriana.

I haven't said anything that disagrees with any of your post. What point are you trying to make?

And your point is?

And your point is?

Is there a point to all this?

People don't like ads. I dont like them either, but there is nothing wrong with them. If you don't like them, move to where there are none. Easy. Traffic bot use a minimal amount of resources. Groups of them use far less resources than you do on your own. Traffic bots don't push sims to their limits by any stretch of the imagination. Traffic bots have as much right to be there as you do. If you don't like them being there, move on.

Well yes. Neither of us know, but we can reasonably assume that you are correct. You can blame what you want for that, but it's the way things work in SL - and in RL, incidentally. I'm sorry that SL isn't to your liking, but you've only been in it a week, so there's a good chance that you can find places that suit you. Keep looking .

Interesting point, and a true one. The regulars of this forum know me as a botrunner, but they also know me to post information that is of great assistance to my competition - specifically how to get high ranking in the All search, knowing full well that it showed my competitors how to compete with me. I've since regretted posting that stuff, but that's because of the nutcases here (not everybody), and not because I changed my mind about showing my competition how to compete with me. I agree that it's not good business sense, but it's my nature to share like that.

Not long ago, I discovered a very important thing about rankings. Something that, together with the other things I posted, just about guarantees the top spot as long as the competition doesn't know about it. Had it not been for the nutcases here, I would have posted that too, but I'd come to regret ever posting any of it by then, so it remains in my head - except that I helped someone (a competitor) to find it recently.

Some people like to say that it's all about greed, but they don't know. They just like to say things like that as a way of throwing stones - they like to throw stones because I use bots. If it were all about greed and the mighty buck, I sure wouldn't have passed on any of the information to anyone, let alone post it in the open forum.

[added]
In this post, the word "nutcases" does not refer to people who don't agree with me - everyone is free to have opinions. It refers to those who throw insults and lies in my direction - including Koriana (I just read its profile lmao)

So ok to recap, on this BOT Places List, is it so far like this?

1. Phil Deakins

2. Phil Deakins

3. Phil Deakins

4. Phil Deakins

5. Phil Deakins…

Telling your competitors your 'trade secrets' is generally considered not good business sense.
But this community is known for helping each other out. So I respect and appreciate everybody who has 'terrible business sense' by being helpful to anybody else. Competitor or not.

I have 'terrible business sense' myself, and wouldn't have it any other way.

I am a person/avater. I'm not a place But thank you for adding me to the list, which is why I entered this thread in the first place

Opps sorry, of course your not a place, let me correct that

1. Phil Deakins Shop

etc.

That'll do - ty

Who is this "we" you mentioned? One week old, and you're the spokesperson already? LMAO

How would you know that after only a week in SL? (Read Marcel's reply, anyway)

After only a week, I can understand your ignorance, but it's not good to show it as you do. Noobs with attitude - huh.

I am the owner of the new business PENDULUM furniture and of course my traffic very low, I have thought about bots so that my traffic would be better, I would hate tzo participate in that problem and would rather get my traffic throught hte conventional advertisements and forums, but itzs almost impossible, as Im losing rl money right now why shouldnt I use bots, or better yet, how do I get this business out to the masses, without huge traffic results.

I give out 52000l a WEEK, for the classifieds, and post everwhere i can, but I cant compete against the traffic results of some tof the other businesses, shoudl I continue to lose money, what would you suggest????

Thanks for the reply In world: Sayden Westland

You could always try posting to the forums, accidentally mentioning the name of your business.

Bots aren't a problem. Nobody here has shown them to be a problem in any way. A few here are vociferous in their dislike of them, but that's all. Do what you feel comfortable doing.

You will not get the advise to run bots from me, as I am not running them myself. As stated before, I am not in favour of running bots, though I do understand why they are run.

Anyway, without bots I am quite able to compete with other stores. One of my first thoughts when reading your post though, is how on earth do you think that as a starting business owner you can earn back 52k per classified? Plus your land ownership expenses, buying tools...

From my side, I started small, and after about a year I make a small profit already. That is not bad, as far as I am concerned. make sure people can find you (what is your specialism, just forniture or a special kind of furniture?), optimize your parcel to get high in Search. For example, if you make Victorian furniture, it must not be that hard to get in the top 3 on that search word. its not all about traffic.

<added>
One more question: I see you joined June 2008. How many items do you have for sale yet? As soon as I am inworkd I will visit your store, but I think you are pretty fast moving, without research into how things work. Which would be a shame if you make good stuff, as the results might be disappointing.
</added>

We is used as an inclusive of others like minded.

1 week old account, not 1 week old player.

So how can you talk about things that happened before you were here then Phil?

You have repeatedly said traffic was not used to measure popularity. When in fact it was, till the system was manipulated (to the point LL pulled dwell and started to take other steps)

But then again that was before your time here, so you wouldn't know now would you.

Actually it is possible to hide the bots depending on how the mall is set up. It's not hard to build up the mall... but put the bots outside the perceived area of said mall. Most don't check property lines so they don't notice the little 512m abutment next to the area of the mall with a skybox way up in the sky.

I think it should still be paid account, where only premium accounts count towards being indexed (and even for traffic). Because optimization will now include people simply linking the old bots to their paypal and then setting picks there.... and they can do far more of them in a week than you can get with a paid for picks tool. But that's fine with you as well isn't it? Never mind it completely alters the usefulness of search by allowing for such manipulation, much like traffic can be manipulated?