BOT places! List them here!
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 07:49
From: Phil Deakins Correction: Colette enjoys it. I haven't seen a word that she has written in a very long time, unless someone quotes it. I'm sure she know that. you sure do tal kabout her a lot. do you two have that love/hate thing going? the kind, tha tin sitcoms, turns in to a sordid and passionate love affair? this has quite the makings for such a drama. 
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MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
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07-26-2008 07:49
From: Ciaran Laval And who is Phil cheating? This is what it boils down to because if his products are crap nobody will be buying even if he's on the parcel with the most traffic in the whole of Second Life.
Whereas if I'm being sold a service based on popularity, such as a club, then the figures being used to sell the service, the number of people at the location, is a direct misrepresentation.
Phil sells furniture, not numbers. to a point, the traffic numbers are increasing his search results though falsifying traffic using bots vs actual visitor traffic. So he is promoting those numbers to show his location as more popular. And people tend to go to high traffic locations most times, based on the assumption that they are the best deals or quality.
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Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 07:51
From: MortVent Charron It's equivalent to the a movie theater counting everyone that walks in and out the doors to boost the number of visitors to the location for advertising purposes (and then at the bottom of the add in real fine print going - all visitors counted coming and going) doesn't LL do that themselves? the bloated member count because people have 50+ alts? if daddy LL is setting the pace, i hardly find it surprising that it's avatar children would follow suit.
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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07-26-2008 07:57
From: MortVent Charron And people tend to go to high traffic locations most times, based on the assumption that they are the best deals or quality. Not my experience at all, Poundland is popular in RL, but I doubt anyone would say their products are top quality. Even if people do there assuming the products are quality, they won't buy unless they think it's a good product at a good price. You can see his products.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 07:58
From: MortVent Charron Just one problem he is competing with RL people for RL money... who?
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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07-26-2008 08:00
From: Chip Midnight Let's say McDonald's figured out that the higher the number served they put on their sign the more the signs of competing restaurants were moved away from the road, so they decide to go all out and put up a completely fake number like "497 quintrillion served!" so that their competitors signs are no longer visible from the road at all. They'd be sued in a heartbeat, and they'd lose. Phil isn't making any such claims though. He hasn't got signs up saying he serves x amount of people, you're comparing apples and oranges.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 08:05
From: Chip Midnight Let's say McDonald's figured out that the higher the number served they put on their sign the more the signs of competing restaurants were moved away from the road, so they decide to go all out and put up a completely fake number like "497 quintrillion served!" so that their competitors signs are no longer visible from the road at all. They'd be sued in a heartbeat, and they'd lose. if they just zoom out or better, drive past the big sign, then they'd see the other signs. cuz the other signs are there, and you can still see them, they just aren't the FIRST ONE you see.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 08:07
From: MortVent Charron to a point, the traffic numbers are increasing his search results though falsifying traffic using bots vs actual visitor traffic. So he is promoting those numbers to show his location as more popular. And people tend to go to high traffic locations most times, based on the assumption that they are the best deals or quality. on the same page and Phil's store name, are 99 other names. and below Phils store name are 99 other names who ALSO bot the system. page 2 more botting page 3 more botting page 4 possibly bot traffic mixed with non-bot traffic.
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MortVent Charron
Can haz cuddles now?
Join date: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 1,942
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07-26-2008 08:08
lindens can be converted to rl money. (as Phil is prone to brag about) And his competition is real people
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Bippity boppity boo! I'm stalking you!
9 out of 10 voices in my head don't like you... the 10th went to get the ammo
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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07-26-2008 08:12
From: Ciaran Laval Phil isn't making any such claims though. He hasn't got signs up saying he servers x amount of people, you're comparing apples and oranges. He's doing exactly that, Ciaran. Traffic is used in search ranking as a way to reward people with the most popular places, on the premise that the more people who visit a parcel the more relevant the parcel is. To think it's calculated and used in ranking for any other reason is patently absurd. There's no other conceivable reason to have that metric at all. It makes sense to use popularity as part of the formula for determining relevancy (or at least it would if the metric wasn't gamed into complete meaninglessness). It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to use the number of bots people run as part of the formula. The ONLY reason that works is because LL has no way to tell the difference between the two, hence the exploit. I seriously have to wonder about people who can't grasp something so blindingly obvious.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 08:15
From: MortVent Charron lindens can be converted to rl money. (as Phil is prone to brag about) And his competition is real people so again. if SL people want to make RL money and use it as their sole income, they need to use the game the way it has been made available. if they are feeding their families strictly off of SL, and they aren't making it because they refuse to use all the business strategies available to them, then i can't hardly feel sorry for them. not the mention the fact that SL was never intended to be the sole income for anyone other than the creators. do you know of anyone who is suffering in RL because Phils botting is taking food off their table?
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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07-26-2008 08:16
From: 3Ring Binder you sure do tal kabout her a lot. do you two have that love/hate thing going? the kind, tha tin sitcoms, turns in to a sordid and passionate love affair? this has quite the makings for such a drama.  She doesn't get a mention these days unless someone quote something she writes, which a very rare. And even then I don't usually refer to her or it. There's no love/hate going on. I certainly don't love her in any way shape or form, and I don't hate her. She's just a normal troll, who used to enjoy stalking me here, and I choose not to address her at all.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 08:17
From: Chip Midnight The ONLY reason that works is because LL has no way to tell the difference between the two, hence the exploit. I seriously have to wonder about people who can't grasp something so blindingly obvious. Chip..... let me make some even more obvious. YOU know of the LL exploit of using alts to bloat membership count. YOU know of Phil's exploit of using alts to bloat traffic count. People new to SL or watching SL from afar DO NOT know of the LL exploit of using alts to bloat membership count. People new to SL or watching SL from afar DO NOT know of Phil's exploit of using alts to bloat traffic count.
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3Ring Binder
always smile
Join date: 8 Mar 2007
Posts: 15,028
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07-26-2008 08:20
From: Phil Deakins She doesn't get a mention these days unless someone quote something she writes, which a very rare. And even then I don't usually refer to her or it. There's no love/hate going on. I certainly don't love her in any way shape or form, and I don't hate her. She's just a normal troll, who used to enjoy stalking me here, and I choose not to address her at all. you're taking out all the fun and entertainment factors for the rest of us curious onlookers.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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07-26-2008 08:22
From: MortVent Charron And people tend to go to high traffic locations most times, based on the assumption that they are the best deals or quality. No they don't. If you know anything about search results at all, you'll know that people naturally look at the top few more than any others - you do it yourself. It's what people do naturally. People don't go to places because they think a lot of people go there, so it must be good. They go because they've seen there is something there that they might want, and more people see it in the top few listings (in the 'hot' area) than lower down.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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07-26-2008 08:23
From: 3Ring Binder you're taking out all the fun and entertainment factors for the rest of us curious onlookers. Sorry 
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Ciaran Laval
Mostly Harmless
Join date: 11 Mar 2007
Posts: 7,951
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07-26-2008 08:27
From: Chip Midnight He's doing exactly that, Ciaran. Traffic is used in search ranking as a way to reward people with the most popular places, on the premise that the more people who visit a parcel the more relevant the parcel is. People who use traffic alone to measure the popularity of a parcel obviously aren't doing their homework. There are umpteen reasons why one parcel may be more popular than another. The size of the parcel, is there a club there, are there other visitor attratctions there, camping, zyngo, bots. Traffic alone hasn't been a useful metric since long before I signed up.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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07-26-2008 08:32
From: MortVent Charron I quote the KB and LL The KB is wrong. The part you quoted was never right, and I've shown that very clearly. LL is often wrong too. For instance, they still say that traffic is worked out by a complex formula, when we all know it isn't. Some LL people just don't know everything. From: MortVent Charron You make up excuses for what you do that revolve around "but I make money, so I'm going to keep doing it." Mort, I have never given any excuses for what I do, made up or otherwise. I've given reasons, but I have no need of excuses. From: MortVent Charron A scam artist makes money too, doesn't mean it's right even if what they do isn't illegal. All sort of people make money. Drivers, receptionists, scam artists, - all sorts. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, or unreasonably affect anyone.
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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07-26-2008 09:35
From: Phil Deakins ..... All sort of people make money. Drivers, receptionists, scam artists, - all sorts. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, or unreasonably affect anyone. "scam artists, - all sorts. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, .....or unreasonably affect anyone." So a scam artist is ok as long as they don't "unreasonably affect anyone". Amazing! What about gentle polite bank-robbers? .... provided they don't take too much money? How much? "Excuse me. I'm so frightfully to bother you, but would you mind dreadfully putting a reasonable amount of cash in this bag please?"
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Sindy Tsure
Will script for shoes
Join date: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 4,103
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07-26-2008 12:14
From: Sling Trebuchet So a scam artist is ok as long as they don't "unreasonably affect anyone". Amazing! What about gentle polite bank-robbers? .... provided they don't take too much money? How much?
"Excuse me. I'm so frightfully to bother you, but would you mind dreadfully putting a reasonable amount of cash in this bag please?" LOL.. Coming up next: Phil tells us the dictionary is wrong! http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scam
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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07-26-2008 12:23
From: Sling Trebuchet "scam artists, - all sorts. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, .....or unreasonably affect anyone."
So a scam artist is ok as long as they don't "unreasonably affect anyone". Amazing! What about gentle polite bank-robbers? .... provided they don't take too much money? How much?
"Excuse me. I'm so frightfully to bother you, but would you mind dreadfully putting a reasonable amount of cash in this bag please?" yeah. I worded it badly. I was saying that there's nothing wrong with making money. The fact that scam artists make money doesn't mean that making money is in any way wrong.
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Phil Deakins
Prim Savers = low prims
Join date: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 9,537
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07-26-2008 12:28
Sindy, if you want to think that the quoted part of the KB was right, and/or what LL people tell us about how traffic is calculated, even though what they say concurs with the KB, then you think it. You be content in your ignorance. As far as the traffic calculations are concerned, you'd be on your own, judging by other threads here. As far as the KB on traffic = popularity is concerned, you be delusional. But do I care?  Btw, the dictionary is often wrong, or more accurately, out of date. Don't forget that the dictionary reflects the words people use, and what they mean by them, and not the other way round. You just can't win, can you? 
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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07-26-2008 13:04
From: Phil Deakins yeah. I worded it badly. I was saying that there's nothing wrong with making money. The fact that scam artists make money doesn't mean that making money is in any way wrong. Unless you're a scam artist 
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Sling Trebuchet
Deleted User
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 4,548
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07-26-2008 13:35
From: Phil Deakins yeah. I worded it badly. I was saying that there's nothing wrong with making money. The fact that scam artists make money doesn't mean that making money is in any way wrong. Yes. It's the same with riding bicycles. What a profound thought!!
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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07-26-2008 15:19
Its much easier for those of us who were there to envision a virtual world of more honest competition.
Its kind of a sad commentary that people are basically evenly divided on the issue nowadays.
In 2005 had this thread come up the chorus echoing what Chip and Pie are saying would have been deafening.
Guess you had to be there for a Second Life with no Campers or Trafficbots to really see what I mean.
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