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How can an roadside billboard network function in Second Life?

Brenda Connolly
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06-17-2008 18:00
From: Damien1 Thorne
I have never bought anything due to billboard, radio, or TV ads. But there are a hell of alot of things I will never buy because of those same ads.

Isn't that funny? I'm the same way. I've never had an ad resonate with me positively. as far making me want to buy a product. But ads that annoy me stay with me and influence what I buy.
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Dytska Vieria
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06-17-2008 18:01
From: Hope Zinner
That said, I will answer the question of how to improve your business....One small sign per sim on at least 512, maybe twice that, surrounded with an interesting build or landscape. (I would like to emphasise the 'one small sign per sim' part.) In other words, this area should be something that people would enjoy. Ideally, the sign and the build would have something in common and would work together in some way. You should try to lead people to your advertisement. Get the attention by charming the customer. Create something that induces a positive emotional reaction. Right now your ads are garish, intrusive, repulsive, obstructive, etc. Given this fact, how can you really wonder and protest about all of these negative feelings that have been expressed here?


I don't think spamming on 512sqm parcels fits their "Business Model" because they want as many of their ugly annoying high towers of spam on as many sims as possible to please their clients, which for the most part are their own business interests or business that don't seem to care, like Coldwell Banker. If these add farmers pay for a full sim's tier, then they can spam on 4096 sims on 16sqm parcels if my math is right.
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Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:03
From: Brenda Connolly
Isn't that funny? I'm the same way. I've never had an ad resonate with me positively. as far making me want to buy a product. But ads that annoy me stay with me and influence what I buy.
We must all be of a like mind, I am the same. If the ad is too overt and annoys then I avoid that product too.
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Brenda Connolly
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06-17-2008 18:05
From: Dytska Vieria
I don't think spamming on 512sqm parcels fits their "Business Model" because they want as many of their ugly annoying high towers of spam on as many sims as possible to please their clients, which for the most part are their own business interests or business that don't seem to care, like Coldwell Banker. If these add farmers pay for a full sim's tier, then they can spam on 4096 sims on 16sqm parcels if my math is right.

Oh, if we are talking about RL business advertising in SL as well than definitely not. I want no part of them, they should stay as far away from me as possible.
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Atom Burma
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06-17-2008 18:15
Wow this thread got huge fast. K I work in advertising, and find billboards in SL annoying as well. I actually ran an advertising business inworld years back and I didn't find this to be the story you are spinning. The reason that billboards work in reality is because of what is known as a 'trickle effect'. That being where a person is bombarded day in and day out with a logo, literally forcing it into their mind. This just doesn't translate into the virtual. People don't watch SLTV, or at least not yet. There are no real reprints in mags and signs that I noticed or could draw a connection with. It's just random signs everywhere. And yes it is annoying, and I really refuse to think it has any impact.

Now classifieds, and magazines work. Setting up 'satellite' locations or booths in malls works. Because if I want something I search by product. If I am at a mall and see a similar shop next door, I go in. I don't just wander aimlessley taking in billboards. I ignore them as well. And this is odd because in real life this is what I do. I literally tear apart advertising campaigns in my mind day in and day out. I just don't seem to find I do that on the grid. So I have to agree with the ones against advertising. Secondlife just isn't reality. Some things just don't apply, and billboards would be one in my opinion.
Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:16
From: Brenda Connolly
Oh, if we are talking about RL business advertising in SL as well than definitely not. I want no part of them, they should stay as far away from me as possible.
I could not agree more, I come to SL to leave RL behind for a while.
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Damien1 Thorne
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06-17-2008 18:22
From: Gabriele Graves
We must all be of a like mind, I am the same. If the ad is too overt and annoys then I avoid that product too.

That's cause we're all deviants. :D
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Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:23
From: Damien1 Thorne
That's cause we're all deviants. :D
Nuuu!!! Say it's not true!!!
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Drongle McMahon
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The history of the world
06-17-2008 18:25
In the beginning there was a Server and from the Server the Overlord brought forth the Main Land. And the Overlord looked at the Main Land and he saw that it was good. And people came to the Main land, and they were called the Rez Idents, and they propspered in the Main Land, and the Main Land became a place of harrmony and contentment. And the Overlord turned to other things.

But there came to the Main Land the Others, whose names would also become known for their works, in the annals of Ar Bor. And the Others looked upon the Main Land and they did not see harmony, and they did not feel contentment, for their minds were in turmoil, for deep inside them they carried a terrible burden, a being alien to the Main Land, that was called G'Reed. And G'Reed closed their eyes so that they could see only the drug that sustained G'Reed, the drug called Mun'Eee. And the only source of Mun'Eee was the Rez Idents, and the Others were driven by G'Reed to take Mun'Eee from the Rez Idents, and they knew the Rez Idents only as the source of Mun'Eee and they cared not for harmony and they cared not for contentment.

The Others split asunder the Main Land until it would split no more. On the atoms of the Main Land they brought forth apparitions that towered over the Rez Idents, and the apparitions gyrated, and the apparitions spewed forth foul images, and the apparitions cleaved the night with bright lights, and the Others called the apparitions Ad Verts. And the Rez Idents were afraid of the Ad Verts, and they cowered beneath the Ad Verts, and they begged the Others to take the Ad Verts away. Many Rez Idents fled the Main Land and sought the refuge of the Eye Lands, and the shelter of Des Mon'd in the Anachron Sim that was also called Cal Aidon.

Many Rez Idents capitulated to the Others and gave the Others all their Mun'Eee, and the Others demanded more Mun'Ee and the Rez Idents gave them more. But the more Mun'Eee the Rez Idents gave the Others, the more the Others split the land, the more the Others brought forth Ad Verts. And the harmony of the Main Land was destroyed, and there was no contentment, and the Main Land became a desert. And Ad Verts towered over the Main Land as far as the eye could see.

But the Others prospered and were bloated with Mun'Eee and did not care what they could see, and G'Reed was satisfied and grew. And the Others begat more Others that were called Alts, and G'Reed infected Rez Idents who were too weak and became yet more Others. But the Rez Idents wailed and gnashed their teeth and cried out to the Overlord that the Others and the Alts had bespoiled the Main Land, and had shattered their harmony, and had banished their contentment. And the Rez Idents fought a great battle with the Others at Ri'Back. And at last the Overlord heard, and the Overlord decreed that Ad Verts should no longer be used to extract Mun'Eee.

For thirty days and thity nights, the Others quivered in awe of the Overlord. All over the Main Land the Ad Verts began to recede, and the Rez Idents saw their beloved Main Land begin to heal, and their contentment increased. And the Overlord considered that the Rez Idents had been saved, and the Overlord turned again to other things.

But the Others saw that the Overlord had turned to other things, and they gathered together and they created new ways to make the Rez Idents give their Mun'Eee to the Others and the Alts, and the ways were many and the Rez Idents were confused, and the Main Land was split again, even the new Main Land that had risen from the sea, the land called Ga'Eta, and Ga'Eta was split faster than Main Land before, and the new ways spread, and the Rez Idents were cowered once more in fear, and the the Mun 'Eee of the Others increased, and the numbers of the Others increased, and G'Reed was ever more satisfied. And the Overlord did not see and attended to other things. And the Rez Idents saw that the Main Land was doomed, that there would never again be harmony, never again would they be content.

But the Rez Idents heard that the Others had tried to take Mun'Eee from a Dragon, and that the Dragon was angered, and that the Dragon was ready to breathe his fire over the Others, and the Rez Idents saw that there was hope, and that the Overlord would eventually hear the Dragon. And the Dragon was called Tal 'Arus..

....(to be continued)
....(appropriate ackowledgement to Verity Stob, for inspiration)
Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:28
From: Drongle McMahon
In the beginning there was a Server and from the Server the Overlord brought forth the Main Land. And the Overlord looked at the Main Land and he saw that it was good. And people came to the Main land, and they were called the Rez Idents, and they propspered in the Main Land, and the Main Land became a place of harrmony and contentment. And the Overlord turned to other things.

But there came to the Main Land the Others, and amongst them was one called Nicholas of ........, and one called the Angel of .........., and one called the Cyborg of ........, and many more who followed them, whose names would also become known for their works, in the annals of Ar Bor. And the Others looked upon the Main Land and they did not see harmony, and they did not feel contentment, for their minds were in turmoil, for deep inside them they carried a terrible burden, a being alien to the Main Land, that was called G'Reed. And G'Reed closed their eyes so that they could see only the drug that sustained G'Reed, the drug called Mun'Eee. And the only source of Mun'Eee was the Rez Idents, and the Others were driven by G'Reed to take Mun'Eee from the Rez Idents, and they knew the Rez Idents only as the source of Mun'Eee and they cared not for harmony and they cared not for contentment.

The Others split asunder the Main Land until it would split no more. On the atoms of the Main Land they brought forth apparitions that towered over the Rez Idents, and the apparitions gyrated, and the apparitions spewed forth foul images, and the apparitions cleaved the night with bright lights, and the Others called the apparitions Ad Verts. And the Rez Idents were afraid of the Ad Verts, and they cowered beneath the Ad Verts, and they begged the Others to take the Ad Verts away. Many Rez Idents fled the Main Land and sought the refuge of the Eye Lands, and the shelter of Des Mon'd in the Anachron Sim that was also called Cal Aidon.

Many Rez Idents capitulated to the Others and gave the Others all their Mun'Eee, and the Others demanded more Mun'Ee and the Rez Idents gave them more. But the more Mun'Eee the Rez Idents gave the Others, the more the Others split the land, the more the Others brought forth Ad Verts. And the harmony of the Main Land was destroyed, and there was no contentment, and the Main Land became a desert. And Ad Verts towered over the Main Land as far as the eye could see.

But the Others prospered and were bloated with Mun'Eee and did not care what they could see, and G'Reed was satisfied and grew. And the Others begat more Others that were called Alts, and G'Reed infected Rez Idents who were too weak and became yet more Others. But the Rez Idents wailed and gnashed their teeth and cried out to the Overlord that the Others and the Alts had bespoiled the Main Land, and had shattered their harmony, and had banished their contentment. And the Rez Idents fought a great battle with the Others at Ri'Back. And at last the Overlord heard, and the Overlord decreed that Ad Verts should no longer be used to extract Mun'Eee.

For thirty days and thity nights, the Others quivered in awe of the Overlord. All over the Main Land the Ad Verts began to recede, and the Rez Idents saw their beloved Main Land begin to heal, and their contentment increased. And the Overlord considered that the Rez Idents had been saved, and the Overlord turned again to other things.

But the Others saw that the Overlord had turned to other things, and they gathered together and they created new ways to make the Rez Idents give their Mun'Eee to the Others and the Alts, and the ways were many and the Rez Idents were confused, and the Main Land was split again, even the new Main Land that had risen from the sea, the land called Ga'Eta, and Ga'Eta was split faster than Main Land before, and the new ways spread, and the Rez Idents were cowered once more in fear, and the the Mun 'Eee of the Others increased, and the numbers of the Others increased, and G'Reed was ever more satisfied. And the Overlord did not see and attended to other things. And the Rez Idents saw that the Main Land was doomed, that there would never again be harmony, never again would they be content.

But the Rez Idents heard that the Others had tried to take Mun'Eee from a Dragon, and that the Dragon was angered, and that the Dragon was ready to breathe his fire over the Others, and the Rez Idents saw that there was hope, and that the Overlord would eventually hear the Dragon. And the Dragon was called Tal 'Arus..

....(to be continued)
....(appropriate ackowledgement to Verity Stob, for inspiration)
*applauds* WTG, very cool story VV :)
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Brenda Connolly
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06-17-2008 18:28
So that's History of The World , Part 1?

*Nicely done, BTW.
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Damien1 Thorne
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06-17-2008 18:28
Drongle wins the interwebs for today.
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Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:30
From: Damien1 Thorne
Drongle wins the interwebs for today.
Tut, tut your spelling is atrocious - it's intarwebs ;)
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Brenda Connolly
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06-17-2008 18:31
From: Gabriele Graves
We must all be of a like mind, I am the same. If the ad is too overt and annoys then I avoid that product too.

I call it the Doppleganger Theory Since we both live on opposite sides of the world, we are bound by a sharing of the mind. Except I use my powers for good while you use yours for evil.
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Amity Slade
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06-17-2008 18:33
The main problem I see with the suggestion is the idea of creating a "network" of billboards would seem to require collective action in Second Life, and that's a hard thing to accomplish.

If you think that billboards are a great idea, what you might try to do is set them up on your estates as the prototype, figuring out a way to measure if it works, and then perhaps the network happens when everyone else tries to copy your good idea.

People in Second Life hate advertisements in general because most are ugly and intrusive. If you can do billboards in a tastesful, non-intrusive manner, you might not draw the ire of those who hate ad farming in Second Life. (Yes, I know what you're proposing is not ad-farming, but whether it gets lumped in with ad-farming in people's minds depends on your execution).

If you integrate the billboards with a themed, planned estate, the billboards almost become a selling point to your estate. If you have a system of roads in your estate, then billboards become part of the theme.

I think one thing you can't avoid is that a billboard decreases the value of the land of your immediate neighbors. If you're selling the billboards and the land around them, you'll have to make the decision as to whether the income for the billboards makes up for the decrease in value of the surrounding estates.

It's an idea with potential, but I don't think you have great chances of selling it to a bunch of people to start off with a billboard network. If you think it's a good idea, you might have to start off as the trailblazer, and convince others' with your success that a network of billboards is a good idea.
Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:33
From: Brenda Connolly
I call it the Doppleganger Theory Since we both live on opposite sides of the world, we are bound by a sharing of the mind. Except I use my powers for good while you use yours for evil.
O.o you mean you are my good alt? I knew I had one someplace.
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Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 18:36
From: Amity Slade
The main problem I see with the suggestion is the idea of creating a "network" of billboards would seem to require collective action in Second Life, and that's a hard thing to accomplish.

If you think that billboards are a great idea, what you might try to do is set them up on your estates as the prototype, figuring out a way to measure if it works, and then perhaps the network happens when everyone else tries to copy your good idea.

People in Second Life hate advertisements in general because most are ugly and intrusive. If you can do billboards in a tastesful, non-intrusive manner, you might not draw the ire of those who hate ad farming in Second Life. (Yes, I know what you're proposing is not ad-farming, but whether it gets lumped in with ad-farming in people's minds depends on your execution).

If you integrate the billboards with a themed, planned estate, the billboards almost become a selling point to your estate. If you have a system of roads in your estate, then billboards become part of the theme.

I think one thing you can't avoid is that a billboard decreases the value of the land of your immediate neighbors. If you're selling the billboards and the land around them, you'll have to make the decision as to whether the income for the billboards makes up for the decrease in value of the surrounding estates.

It's an idea with potential, but I don't think you have great chances of selling it to a bunch of people to start off with a billboard network. If you think it's a good idea, you might have to start off as the trailblazer, and convince others' with your success that a network of billboards is a good idea.
Nope I hate them for a different reason. If I want to go shopping, I will choose to go shopping. If I feel the need for a certain type of product I will research and compare. I do not like my pastime being interrupted because someone else thinks that at that spot and time I should be thinking about their advert and products. That is true regardless of how tasteful it is. Actually the truly tasteful ones are the ones that fail to catch my attention at all.
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
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06-17-2008 18:53
From: Talarus Luan


Yeah, but they aren't. Outdoor ads are spam. Pure and simple.




Unless they are not. But we can't make allowances for that now, can we?

Your world, your imagination.
Desmond Shang
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Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
06-17-2008 18:56
From: Atom Burma
Wow this thread got huge fast. K I work in advertising, and find billboards in SL annoying as well. I actually ran an advertising business inworld years back and I didn't find this to be the story you are spinning. The reason that billboards work in reality is because of what is known as a 'trickle effect'. That being where a person is bombarded day in and day out with a logo, literally forcing it into their mind. This just doesn't translate into the virtual. People don't watch SLTV, or at least not yet. There are no real reprints in mags and signs that I noticed or could draw a connection with. It's just random signs everywhere. And yes it is annoying, and I really refuse to think it has any impact.

Now classifieds, and magazines work. Setting up 'satellite' locations or booths in malls works. Because if I want something I search by product. If I am at a mall and see a similar shop next door, I go in. I don't just wander aimlessley taking in billboards. I ignore them as well. And this is odd because in real life this is what I do. I literally tear apart advertising campaigns in my mind day in and day out. I just don't seem to find I do that on the grid. So I have to agree with the ones against advertising. Secondlife just isn't reality. Some things just don't apply, and billboards would be one in my opinion.


I've heard theories like this before - I think it was Seth Godin (famous marketing guy, sethgodin.com) that said an ad had to be seen something like 17 times before it really had much effect. I really hope I'm not misquoting him - but there's an idea like that floating around out there.

Now, I'm sure there are some kind of metrics to back that up, but on the other hand - he's in the marketing industry. An industry that would want you to see something over a dozen times if at all possible, regardless - because marketers can charge for that :)

* * * * *

I've worked with some *very* successful, proven, professional marketing execs in RL - and they too had certain things they went for.

One of the telling signs of a really top-rate marketer is a guy who can measure returns and target ad dollars effectively, not just in total sales but say, to groups, for market niche expansion, stuff like that. Regardless, there was one cliche' little thing even the pro's seemed to be conscious of - the 'three words' idea.

Essentially, what three words would describe your business overall. Image is a lot; if it doesn't 'match' you are in trouble. If you were selling possum barbeque sauce, the three words "dirty, cheap and sticky" wouldn't hurt you much. But if you were selling pedigreed dogs, it would.


So I think what is going on here is that the accepting market for goods and services on the towering ads doesn't overlap with the forum crowd much.

Has any of us here ever bought anything via one of these signs? I've clicked on the signs out of curiosity now and then, I've certainly been near enough to them that they rez and make 'impressions' (theoretically - can't help but see them).

I remember waaaay in the beginning - my first days on the grid - I did fly around and see a sign for vehicles, and bought one. However, it was the 'regular' sign for Abbotts Aerodrome, and for some reason I had imagined that a vehicle would be a rather necessary item to actually get around anywhere.

Realise I had come from Star Wars Galaxies and There.com, where you were basically stranded in noobsville places until you could get your own ride. So from that experience, I can see relatively new people clicking on the signs and actually doing business. But forum people? No, not us.
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Snowflake Fairymeadow
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06-17-2008 19:01
From: Desmond Shang
Has any of us here ever bought anything via one of these signs?

I have bought the land, to make the sign go away and give myself some extra prims.
Talarus Luan
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Join date: 18 Mar 2006
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06-17-2008 19:05
From: Atom Burma
Now classifieds, and magazines work. Setting up 'satellite' locations or booths in malls works. Because if I want something I search by product. If I am at a mall and see a similar shop next door, I go in. I don't just wander aimlessley taking in billboards. I ignore them as well. And this is odd because in real life this is what I do. I literally tear apart advertising campaigns in my mind day in and day out. I just don't seem to find I do that on the grid. So I have to agree with the ones against advertising. Secondlife just isn't reality. Some things just don't apply, and billboards would be one in my opinion.


That's probably because you are a professional in RL, and the ad networks in SL are wannabees. :D
Talarus Luan
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06-17-2008 19:09
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow
Unless they are not. But we can't make allowances for that now, can we?


But, they are, so no allowances need be made. :)

From: someone
Your world, your imagination.


Yep, which stops at the borders of "my world, my imagination". :D
Gabriele Graves
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06-17-2008 19:10
From: Desmond Shang
So I think what is going on here is that the accepting market for goods and services on the towering ads doesn't overlap with the forum crowd much.

Has any of us here ever bought anything via one of these signs? I've clicked on the signs out of curiosity now and then, I've certainly been near enough to them that they rez and make 'impressions' (theoretically - can't help but see them).

I remember waaaay in the beginning - my first days on the grid - I did fly around and see a sign for vehicles, and bought one. However, it was the 'regular' sign for Abbotts Aerodrome, and for some reason I had imagined that a vehicle would be a rather necessary item to actually get around anywhere.

Realise I had come from Star Wars Galaxies and There.com, where you were basically stranded in noobsville places until you could get your own ride. So from that experience, I can see relatively new people clicking on the signs and actually doing business. But forum people? No, not us.
I remember in my first days thinking how ugly the adverts looked, sighed because the fantasy world was riddled with it too and tried to find areas that were not like that. I also never clicked-through any advert or bought a product after seeing one. This was before I even knew there was a forum so I fail to see what the connection to being a forum person is. There is a diverse set of people here clearly or we would agree on everything.

Unless of course I am missing your point entirely - which has been known on occaison.
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Talarus Luan
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06-17-2008 19:14
From: Snowflake Fairymeadow
I have bought the land, to make the sign go away and give myself some extra prims.


Great. So now the person has enough money to go out and replicate that 20x or more over. :rolleyes:

I was wondering where that new crop of land extortionist adplots came from next door. Thanks!
Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
06-17-2008 19:15
From: Gabriele Graves
Desmond, forum people were once new too. I remember in my first days thinking how ugly the adverts looked, sighed because the fantasy world was riddled with it too and tried to find areas that were not like that. I also never clicked-through any advert or bought a product after seeing one. This was before I even knew there was a forum so I fail to see what the connection to being a forum person is. There is a diverse set of people here clearly or we would agree on everything.

Unless of course I am missing your point entirely - which has been known on occaison.


No, you got my point :)

When I first signed in, my first impression of Second Life was sort of like this:



So I fully expected to see a bit of tawdry, and it didn't phase me much in the early days. Now it bugs me, because I know the grid can be so much more.



Edit: for those that can't see the picture linky, it's this:

http://www.impawards.com/1992/posters/cool_world_ver2.jpg

Quite evocative of what I thought of the place initially.
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