How can an roadside billboard network function in Second Life?

The thing is that I've seen this thread before. Sometimes it is by ad networkers; previously it has been by ad farmers, or freebie sellers, or camp zombie farm operators, or another profession legal at the time but which everyone hates.

The thread starts off with a slightly provocative post, which invites replies from people who dislike the particular profession, and then the original poster instantly begins to insult any dissenters, because that was the point of the thread in the first place - it was never about anything but trying to justify the poster's position to themselves.

Of course, given that the position is indefensible, this also means ignoring everything everyone posts and branding them as "irrational haters" and so on. But it's really just someone talking to themself anyway so that's not surprising.

Looked at any of your terminals lately? One with three billboards (oft times, showing the SAME ads! O.O) pretty much constitutes a single-owner farm.



You are on the blacklist request at least once, so I wouldn't exactly call you "squeaky clean", either. Still, you could have adcutter/adfarmer alts who are on it. Who would know?



Well,

1) When you have 20-30 jerkoffs constantly trying to scam you with small plots and donut holes in your land,
2) When you have SEVERAL farms of "advertisers" in and around your land in the same region, mostly owned by self-same jerkoffs,
3) and when you are constantly faced with hostility and harassment that the Lindens won't do anything about, even when reported DIRECTLY to the managers of the Governance Team

What do you expect?

Still, like I said, I always start out making a nice, polite, and fair offer for land. It just never turns out any way that entices me to NOT be a fanatic.

You poke and prod this Dragon enough, and he is going to effin eat you. Period. End of story.



There always HAVE been proper advertising venues; just that everyone loves jumping on the easiest and most annoying one right off the bat. In that way, you haven't been copied so much as joined. If you don't like the company you keep getting associated with, change. Adapt. Become better than those you (claim to) despise.

Yes, all 15-20 of us vs the 2 of you.

As long as you keep saying and doing things that pit people against you, I guess they will be... durrrrr.

Having the last word is a given when your opponent had the first. It's one of those fairness things; something I wouldn't necessarily expect you to understand.

It has nothing to do with a "price paid for mainland". It's a price paid for clueless non-policies by the Mainland Estate managers.

..and no, I don't think they have as much right to be there as me, any more than scammers, banks, gambling casinos, harassing builds, etc have in the past. I don't agree with having donut holes in land, and I do believe in the notion of eminent domain for cases that justify its legitimate use. Unfortunately, LL is slow to learn the lessons of RL in their virtual simulation of same, and it is costing them money, time, and stress on their support system.

Harassing builds can be ARed as well, and have been removed by the Lindens, so that doesn't wash, either.

If the Lindens decide to implement a ban on outdoor advertisement, then they will DEFINITELY not have "as much right to be there as" me. Something I would welcome with open arms, and I doubt I would be the only one, either.



I know several people who get good results from the classifieds for their products, and they pay no more than a couple thousand L$ a week for their listings. All depends on the level of exposure you can afford, and how well you set up your keywords for search.

Make that 16-21

I *absolutely* agree with *all* the anti-outdoor ad network / anti-ad farm posts in this thread.

I have only been part of the "quiet majority" until now as I have not been online...

Talarus: You used to enjoy the L$ i brought you, you were real happy with me back then, how's that changed?

As for the arbor short listing: It was all caused by Nobody Fugazi, i did a single 16s cut, which was joined together within 30minutes, and it all went back to Nobody in the end. He had been griefing me, later on confirmed and suspended from SL for a while. I were removed from the list.

As for 3 in one location: kinda a short walkway right?
And hmm 3.... can you show where, i don't recall doing even a single one of those, 96sqm with 3 typical billboards.

And like someone said, it is opt-in when you buy land next to an adfarm (which i do not support, nor condone) and choose to stay there.

I hate ad farms too, and i do not do ad farms. Can't you even do enough reasoning to realize, i am NOT the one who puts full bright glow pornads floating in air?

Outdoors advertising works, PERIOD. Tiny companies such as Coldwell Bankers use it as well, or haven't you guys noticed?

This seems to be a pissing contest, anyone care to join with me on the side of fence where logic and reasoning works?

So far every advertising model attempted in SL, almost, has been attacked badly. Which reminds me to look networking the only one which isn't.

And some people prefer mainland for that very reason.



Until people realise the implications I would vehemently oppose any such policy, enough with the banning.

Yeah, but you /cannot/ do "anything you want" on the mainland.

If you make a harassing build, it gets ARed and the Lindens will take it down.
If you make a laggy build, it gets ARed, and the Lindens will take it down.
If you make a spammy build, it gets ARed, and the Lindens will take it down.
If you put up a porn billboard, it gets ARed, and the Lindens will take it down.
If you put pyramid schemes, phishing objects, L$ stealers, etc up, they get ARed, and the Lindens remove them.
If you put up gambling machines that take money and pay out jackpots, they get ARed, and the Lindens remove them.
If you put out "bank terminals" or other investment scheme terminals, they get ARed, and the Lindens will remove them.
If you put up an irritating build on small plots that are set for sale for absurd prices, they get ARed, and the Lindens will take it down.

It has been a LONG time since you could do literally *anything* you wanted on the mainland.



Except it has been, and is changing.



Well, for people who want that kind of deal, sure. I don't, unless I have my own islands, something I can't afford yet (though hoping that business gets good enough to pay for it).



It will happen long before that. When the Lindens realize that no one wants mainland anymore, and they can't GIVE land away (don't laugh.. look at the land market right now, and do some simple projections), they will be faced with a serious choice: Fix the problems and make mainland attractive, or start deleting regions.

Dude, you've never made me any money, that I know of, anyway. Refresh my memory...



IM me in-world.



Except that I predated the adfarms in my home region. I have been there since the region opened in late 2006, so I didn't move in next to the adfarms, they moved in next to me.



I stipulated that your network differs; my argument with you directly is related to your presentation in this thread and my fight against outdoor advertising in general. It's wrong, it is HORRIBLY abused, and LL shouldn't have allowed it to go this far in the first place.



So you claim. Proof? Proof that it works better than alternatives? <.< >.> Yeah, I thought so.

No, I haven't noticed anything related to Coldwell Banker, other than seeing something in the last year about them pulling out of SL, I think.



Maybe it isn't us who is on the wrong side of THAT fence.



I know of several I don't mind at all.

The implications?

A spam-free view?
Land extortionists losing one of their last raison d'etres?

Sign me up, buddy!

As for banning, it is a tool. It can be used for good, or for ill.

Some people just do not play nice with others (meaning the Commons). Some make it their life's work to harass, extort, or generally make your life miserable. Those people need to be shown The Door in the most expeditious way possible.

I don't like resorting to the ban stick, either. As Elder Guardian and Estate Manager of the Isle of Wyrms (for example), it is something I like to save for the last resort. However, for those who have pushed the staff to the point of us having to wield it against them, I have no measure of sympathy. They asked for it; they got what they deserved, and I don't cry any tears over their permanent vacation from our home.

And someone wants to put up an ad for the SL Shakespeare company on their land, but heck you've banned all outdoor advertising, or someone wants to leave a sign advertising they've moved plots, but heck you've banned all outdoor advertising. Someone wants to leave out an advert for a treasure hunt, but heck you've banned outside advertising, yadda yadda yadda.

How did that work out for Coldwell Banker? Did it help them build a sucessful long-term presence in Second Life? Are they still using that sort of advertising? Did it enhance the reputation of their brand?



NCI has raised money to support our classes, events, and tier with our AdNode system for over a year now. It's never been "attacked badly". Why? Because we 1) build on our own property, 2) have our billboards facing inwards towards our campuses, 3) use billboards that are attractive and placed at ground level, and 4) actively screen out scams and adult ads.

I've never said that all outdoor advertising should be banned. I can see how you can assume what my position is, but honestly, that is nothing more than a strawman argument in a vacuum.

If you want to know what *I* have proposed on the matter, read the proposal at the bottom of this page:

http://etakeh-oh.net/adless/?page_id=5

I just offered to buy the parcel the ugly bright ad tower was on from the person that started this thread, I offered him 10 a meter and he agreed. He came over here, cut the parcel smaller, jacked the price to 13 a meter for just part of the parcel and moved the ads a tiny bit to the south (like inches)... so now I have the option to pay too much for a tiny patch and still have the ads there. Not much of a choice, I'm passing. He did lower the ad tower tho, it is only stacked 4 tall now so I was able to lower my facade that blocks the glaring gash on the landscape. People who see lots like this thinking hey, it's worth the lindens to get rid of it should look VERY closely at the lines... an unwary person would think they were buying the ad land, they aren't.

Oh I see, it's ok for you to advertise your views on an external site but heaven forbid anyone inworld who uses advertising for a similar purpose

Nope, I wouldn't be happy with that proposal either, people should be allowed to advertise content in other areas of Second Life. Until Linden Lab introduce zoned mainland (and that should only apply to new land, people purchased existing mainland unzoned and that should be honoured) then I can't see how that policy is fair.

Spam and harrassment are already covered in the TOS, Linden Lab can already enforce those policies.

O.o

OK, you'll have to explain that one to me... relevancy?



I think it is very fair, to everyone except adfarmers and spam advertisers, which was the whole point it was drafted.

*shrug* Anyway, you are welcome to make your own proposal and submit it to them, or suggest changes to ours. Or just ignore it altogether, if you like. Won't stop us from pressing it with the Lindens.

Also, it doesn't say you can't advertise "in other areas of SL", you just can't do it "outdoors". You are free to advertise all you want inside of clubs, malls, stores, whatever. If you want to build a Temple to Advertising somewhere, put all the ads inside it for everyone that wants it. I don't care. As long as I don't step out my front door to be greeted by 15 adboards blaring in my face (yes, there are that many just outside of my mall), I am happy. I can deal with seeing your Temple, and as long as it doesn't break my viewer, my eyes, or the sim, I don't care.



Yeah, but they aren't. Outdoor ads are spam. Pure and simple.

My first impression of second life was that it was a wasteland. I hated it. I thought that this is not a virtual world, this just another advertisement. I almost left and never came back. If your form of advertising was banned, I would celebrate.

That said, I will answer the question of how to improve your business....One small sign per sim on at least 512, maybe twice that, surrounded with an interesting build or landscape. (I would like to emphasise the 'one small sign per sim' part.) In other words, this area should be something that people would enjoy. Ideally, the sign and the build would have something in common and would work together in some way. You should try to lead people to your advertisement. Get the attention by charming the customer. Create something that induces a positive emotional reaction. Right now your ads are garish, intrusive, repulsive, obstructive, etc. Given this fact, how can you really wonder and protest about all of these negative feelings that have been expressed here?

You must someday understand that we, right here, right now, the 17 - 22 of us, represent your potential advertising targets. We don't like your business model and our numbers are growing. You have a big problem.

Not the answer you were looking for, I'm sure. But this is the truth. Consider it.

No they're not, sandboxes and newbie places have plenty of ads and many of them are useful. The owner of one of the best places a newbie can visit has outdoor adverts, they aren't ad farms, they're adverts but without them he wouldn't be able to provide a bloody good service to newbie residents.

This is the danger of sweeping statements like "Ban outdoor advertising", the ads are on their parcel, harming nobody, you'd have to be on their parcel to see them properly but they are outside adverts.

OK. Let me make a clarification for you that may alleviate some of your issue with the proposal (maybe not, but I will take a stab at it anyway). I am not talking about simply "outdoor adverts", but externally-viewable vs internally-viewable. IE, if your neighbors can see them better than anyone on your land can, then they wouldn't be allowed. Why? Because the intent is obvious: to be spam.

..and, yes, they are spam. We can argue our opinions back and forth until the stars burn out of the sky, and I WILL NOT come off that point. Ever. I pay for my place. I don't want spam in my face, and those billboards are spam in my face. Thus, they are spam and need to go away.

I only read the first page of the thread but my 2 cents on inworld ads....I ignore them completely*as I do for the most part in RL as well*. I patronize shops based mostly on personal recommendations, or from just traveling about the grid and happening upon a business. I do use the New Products Forum here, and in my early days, In World Search.

Personally, I'm still waiting for an "ignore parcel" feature addition to the client.

Some of these ad farms are not only irritating but outright dangerous (redirects to malware sites, phish scams, etc). It'd be really nice to have some active filtering of this sort of content -- perhaps supporting some of Mozilla's additions like NoScript in the in-world browser?

Roadside ads in SL are useless because no-one uses the roads.

Ads inside popular nightclubs might work. Ads on the web rather than in-world are probably best.

I have never bought anything due to billboard, radio, or TV ads. But there are a hell of alot of things I will never buy because of those same ads.

OMG Someone now only has to mention a certain famous infohub and we have a trifecta in play

I am like Brenda and others, I ignore and despise the majority of in-world (and forum sig incidentally) advertising, I go by word of mouth and search, that is all the advertising that is needed or desired by me.

The roads *are* used. I use them and other vehicle enthusiats do too. However I still ignore the adverts even if they do rez when I am whizzing past.