New Zindra Blog Post

Certainly people have been selling their mainland. Blondin told us, as I recall, that he thought this might not be in keeping with the spirit of the swop, but since he's also the person who, on several different occasions, said that 1.23 would be mandatory come mid- to late August, I'm not sure how much weight his opinion carries.

http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Office_Hour_transcript_-_Blondin_Linden:_07-1-2009
then the next week: http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Office_Hour_transcript_-_Blondin_Linden:_07-08-2009
and then two weeks later, http://www.slapt.me/wiki/index.php/Office_Hour_transcript_-_Blondin_Linden:_7-22-2009

-Blondin said that we could do whatever we liked with the land we were swapping for. originally, it was supposed to be a situation where you exchanged an amount of mainland for an equal amount of zindra land. however, it very quickly became an option, allowing one to either abandon it, sell it, or have LL take it over after you had your zindra land for two weeks.

So, I'd say either sell it if you can, or abandon it before the zindra tier kicks in. My group sold off our original plots in Plusia to land-bots at a loss, but we still got *something* for it.


^V^

Eh, I'd still have to cover it up with landscaping prims- but I suppose that I can be grateful that I'm not getting motion sickness every time i move the camera

^V^

I had indicated that I wanted LL to reclaim my mainland after the switch - but then I gave most of the land away and kept 512M of it. LL sent me a e-mail telling me they were coming to get the land. I responded and told them no. They agreed and that is that.

I will be shocked if private islands are ever forced to flag adult. From the very beginning the wording around private islands has been... *Well they are not owned by LL, and are not subject to the same rules, or rather, they get to slide around them a bit easier than those on Linden owned mainland.* This is the same relaxed policy that is being enforced with blatant traffic boosting bots. I have no faith that LL will even moderately enforce, and continue to enforce the adult oriented content rules. Some people will be spanked hard (those left on LL mainland), and the rest will get a slap on the wrist so that they can go back to breaking the vague TOS and CS.

Why all of a sudden is the 1.23 viewer no longer mandatory? This is a viewer that was rushed out after a record of only 4 attempts to get it in semi-working order. Are some numbers now not adding up? Are there more people actively logging into SL for Adult activities that are completely unverified than LL originally thought? Is the system to change your preferences to allow for adult search too difficult?

Apparently.. between the 100% fubared 1.27.3.wthever code they have now, and the 1.23.igotmoreglitchesthancanbecounted viewer codes... They have stalled. Not to mention Cyn Linden in all her brilliance */sarcasm* Has rolled out yet another new shiney to make everyone oooohhhh and ahhhhh over. We finally pinned Blondin down today with Mid September for when the swap will be done, and auctions will start. When that happens, SUPPOSEDLY Everyone with non-adult land adult content will be mailed and told either clean it up or get to Adult land.

Honestly my guess? They are stretching this out, simply because they couldn't handle the sheer volume of requests already *Proof of this.. its been a MONTH and they STILL have NOT finished all the migration tickets*. As long as THEY stall, we will keep spreading the word, finding the glitches, AND the work arounds, and in essence, while they screw us, we are doing their job for them.

But we are the cherished residents remember? Without US, there would be NO Second Life. Don't ya just LOVE Irony?

~Brie

Well, the thing about not making 1.23 mandatory, and as I understood Blondin yesterday where 1.22 users will not be able to search and visit adult content at all, is that they remove a significant portion of the SL residents from the potential customer base of everyone who have moved to Zindra or flagged their private region adult.

1.23 was supposed to be the bedrock for the new world order of a more "predictable experience" with segregated content. Now the bedrock has proved to be a quagmire.

I have to discuss this here because the Zindra Alliance group leaders refuse to listen to any criticism at all.

The Zindra Alliance group has not really been a group where open conversation about these things is allowed or encouraged (we are constantly being asked to stop discussing certain things and go into private IMs.)

In today's Zindra Resident discussion with Blondin Linden there was a discussion where 6 people all agreed to move or rename the Zindra Infohub and Blondin Linden agreed to do so.

But why is the infohub moving? Who's business does it benefit? Were the people next to these infohubs now asked about this? There was no Zindra Alliance meeting called to discuss this prior to pitching it to Blondin Linden. It just seems to be a personal agenda of a select few that use the Zindra Alliance group to get their way.

This is NOT the proper way for an entire fee-paying community to be forced to accept changes. 6 customers should not be making these decisions for everyone without their input or prior knowledge.

Blondin Set some standards for this group. Don't just ask 6 people if they all agree and then go do it. I asked the ZA group owner to give you the power to make your own notices in the A group weeks ago and he did so -yet you have never made any effort to contact the group about anything - you just rely on your contact with a select few to make decisions for an entire community - unacceptable.

The Zindra Alliance group needs to be re-tooled to really be inclusive and to really represent the hundreds of Adult Business tier payers in Zindra. Or Linden Lab needs to have Blondin create a group we all can join so all of our voices are heard and the majority is included in the decision-making process.

Hopefully the Zindra Alliance group officers read this objectively and start making the proper changes.

Some activities that have gone entirely wrong in this group:

Telling people that when an officer tells them to shut up they must do so immediately because of that person's title. A better way would be to plan a weekly meeting PRIOR to the Blondin meeting to get a set agenda in place for the Blondin meeting. Then send out an weekly GROUP VOTE on certain subjects. Have these officers do more than police the chat - have them keep an accurate log of the votes.

-Spamming in the group for members to place a magazine kiosk on their properties for a magazine that advertisers the ZA group creator's personal business and a few profit-making magazines that some officers of ZA are involved in.
A better way to do this is to AT LEAST off the Zindra Alliance people a slurl in this magazine - do not just advertise your business and your friend's business and then spam the group to help to increase your distribution numbers.

-ZINDRA FLAG CONTEST: Instead of appointing a few friends as judges to decide one texture to represent Adult Content in Second Life - take all entries and fly them side by side to show the creative quilt of Adult Content in Zindra. And do not just pick your friend's business to sponsor such a contest.

Please focus on making the Zindra Alliance a true representation of the Adult Content community and not a 'sweet deal' for you all to profit and gain power.

First of all, if you had paid attention, this wouldn't be an issue. The idea was to change the SIM names so the the ZINDRA sim had an info hub.. and it is 100% Linden owned. The proposed sim for swap is empty, and also linden land. The idea is when people hear about Zindra, and use the map, they don't land in an empty ocean sim.

How does this NOT benefit everyone? what good does an Adult info hub do if 90% of the people that use it find it by accident? Using the name LINDENS gave the continent, of Zindra, the one they have spouted off in all the few blogs about it, makes more sense. If they are going to actually finish what they started here, having an info hub that people will FIND when they search would be a good start.

~Brie

The Infohub is not moving.

What was discussed and agreed upon is that the sim (region) named Zindra and the region named Whorlebrow will swap names.

The reason being that Zindra is a pure water sim and anyone who seeks Zindra in the map and TP there will be plunged to the bottom of the sea. Not a very nice entry to the continent.

Whorlebrow is a currently an empty sim across the river from Mosh.

By swapping the two sim names people who seek and TP to Zindra will end up in the middle of the Zindra continent in a nice location.

I hope this clarifies your concern.
Gavin

As usual Brie - you come off immediately as pompous and rude. We cannot pay attention to something that we were never made aware of. There was no notice that came out that asked the group to meet about this issue BEFORE we presented it to Blondin. No discussion on where it should be moved or anything at all.
FYI: It only benefits everyone when everyone is involved - not just you and your friends.

Gavin, you and six of your cohorts agreed with Blondin Linden to change the name of the region that we have developed marketing around. What is wrong with this picture?

I think you are assuming that this is agreed upon. And you still, as a self-appointed leader of a community group, have absolutely no concern about how your self-motivated decisions effect everyone.

You and six of your associates cannot change the entire name of a region just because you want to. Outrageous abuse of perceived power Gavin.

Please make an effort to send a notice to every business in Zindra to see how they feel about such a change. That is the responsible thing to do.

But it is not entirely the ZA leadership's fault - why Blondin moved forward on the word of 6 customers is the real question here.
_________________

This is really a ZA internal conversation with all residents - but since such conversations are discouraged in the group this is where it is taking place.

This was a follow up from last meeting where the issue was raised and discussed. If you could not attend the meeting, the transcript was published so you had the opportunity to read it for yourself and follow up.

Again, nothing is moved. It is a swap off region names to ensure visitors to Zindra land on dry land.

There was no abuse of power.. and it happened because nobody else said anything. The decision has nothing to do with the group and is to do with the fact we are landowners in and were at that meeting.

I think the chances of it happening are pretty remote but it is certainly a better option than having the Aripaima (or whatever it's called) hub renamed. Which was the only other option Blondin would consider.

Where ever it goes, someone will benefit directly and we all benefit indirectly. This is the best of a bad lot.

I do think you need to separate your apparent distaste for the group from the meeting. There is no conspiracy or gang of however many.

If it irks you so much, ask Blondin to set up a LL group for the owners on zindra and he can control membership and access to it.

Gavin when we present a agenda to Blondin - that is not the time to discuss - we have one hour to present our COLLECTIVE concerns. I read all transcripts and have attended all meetings except this one today.

I just do not think you all understand how to be inclusive as a community when making these decisions. I am not realy sure the majority would agree to change the name of the region after they have already invested in advertising and also to name it Whore-something(!)

Please do not take this as an personal attack - try to look at this objectively and see where the error was made in this plan. Take it back to the drawing board, poll the people it effects and make community-based decisions.

I am sorry you were not consulted on marketing development around 2 sims (regions) you don't own any land in.

But the fact remains that the Zindra sim (region) on the adult Zindra continent now is a dry land sim centrally placed on the continent, and not a water sim at the outskirts of it.

The consensus of the meeting yesterday was that everyone will benefit from this, and not give visitors the rude awakening of being plunged to the bottom of the sea when teleporting to Zindra.

I do not think it is an intentional abuse - just people that know each other, with similar agendas thinking what they decide is good for the entire group. Which is no way to place yourself as a leader of a community. It is not as easy as just getting together with your buddies and then passing on the info to the rep of the service provider. They left out the customer base in that scenario.

Controlled membership is not the issue. Many people with no land in Zindra are a member of the Zindra Alliance group. Anyone with Adult Content concerns should join - it seems to be the only way to get anything from the service provider regarding adult content.

And if it is a privately run group for this privately run magazine that advertises friend's of the officers - then so be it. But if it is to be passed it off as a community group to represent the concerns (and financial concerns) of Linden Lab's adult content paying customers then some basic changes need to happen immediately.

A diplomat group to welcome the new Zindra land owners and make them aware of the ZA group.

A list of new business, slurl and primary and secondary contact - so all can be informed when a major decisions that effect everyone comes about.

ZA- meetings before we meet with Blondin to make sure we are all on the same page.

marketing development? 2 Sims? You, and no one owns land in the sim named Zindra. So why are you allowed to make the decision for this empty sim?
Gavin, 6 people agreed. That is not a consensus - no where near it. Most just sat in confused, stunned silence.

I just think you need to protect yourself instead of hear the creative criticism. You cannot improve the group if you refuse to ever be wrong.

Let's ask Blondin to allow us to have a Zindra Town Hall on the Sim named Zindra. That benefits everyone.

I need to take the heat for this Zindra/Whorlebow name swap idea. It only occurred to me at the meeting, but it wasn't just a random synapse firing, although I didn't fully explain the rationale at the time.

I think we all know the problem with the Zindra region being in the middle of the ocean, and that's the main problem being solved. One reason that the current site of Whorlebow is an appealing alternative is that it is completely empty at the moment, so there cannot be many landmarks or scripts that depend on it being where it is currently.

It's also a very central location, connecting the Mosh transit location--often mistaken for an infohub--with Oritz, the actual on-continent infohub.

As I mentioned above (/327/a6/327672/95.html#post2524566), I think the Whorlebow site, "the sim across the river from Mosh," needs to be a community-managed space (as the Mosh space should have been, too). Possibly all Linden-owned land on Zindra should be community managed, too, but for sure we need one common location where community-organized events can be held, displays presented and updated, etc., without needing Linden involvement each time a prim or stream changes.

I couldn't really pitch that larger idea at Blondin's meeting because I had (and still have) no idea whether the community in general nor Zindra Alliance in particular wants to move in that direction. And unfortunately, I'm not community-organizer enough myself to really be any good at figuring that out.

Regarding the Zindra Alliance: If it is to be the community organization responsible for managing common spaces on the continent, and shoulder the burden of other efforts to improve Zindra that border on resident "government"* then yeah, it will eventually need to earn its authority through "the consent of the governed" and have structure and processes to support its responsibilities. I stated my view that it is yet premature for that--most people who would be affected aren't even aware that Zindra Alliance exists, let alone knowing any of the individuals who are or might want to be its officers.

Unless there's a desire to supplant Zindra Alliance with some other organization, it seems to me that what's needed is community support in spreading awareness and involvement, to make it possible for it to fulfill a more ambitious role.

________
*Just to go on record, I'm pretty allergic to "resident government" as a concept, generally. It has a tremendous potential for abuse. But with a strictly circumscribed mandate, it makes a great deal of sense. (Certainly a hell of a lot more sense than Linden control based on the whims of private Estate owners.)

Wait. Lias, you do understand that nobody owns land anywhere near the Zindra sim, nor on Whorlebow, right? Zindra is in the middle of the ocean (that's the main problem here), and Whorlebow is "reserved for future development."

The name swap might possibly generate a small traffic windfall for folks owning land bordering Whorlebow, which was what I supposed could be the objection being raised. But there ain't nobody gonna suffer from the Zindra region moving from its current location, unless somebody has set up shop as mermaid escorts on the Linden high seas.

Speaking as the IZ in the quote, it comes as a bit of a surprise to me either that I'm someone's cohort (strictly speaking, a sub-unit of a Roman legion, as I understand it) or even someone's colleague, co-conspirator or a stooge.

I attended the meeting, as I make a point of doing every week, not because anyone asked me to or because I'm part of a voting block or something, but because I'm anxious to keep abreast of any developments on Zindra or to do with Adult content in general that might affect me or my business partner.

In the course of the discussions of various matters of concern, Blondin asked the general question of what people made of Qie's idea. I said, it sounded a good idea to me, because it did. What would you have had me say?

I guess, strictly speaking, everyone's comments in such meetings should come with the proviso that they're just speaking personally and their views may not be shared by the other however many hundred people it is who've got land on Zindra, let alone the people who're either waiting to hear or who're planning to buy land in the auctions, and still less by all the residents of SL who aren't so directly affected but may, nevertheless, have a view. But that's sort of taken as read, I would have thought.

One reason it sounded a good idea was that it hadn't occurred to me anyone could have "developed marketing" around either an empty patch of water or a sim that's not currently in use.

Clearly I was mistaken, but given that stuff tends to move at a pretty glacial pace, I can't imagine anything much is going to change before you have the opportunity to explain to Blondin why it's a bad plan, so I don't think much harm can have been done, particularly since I'm not really sure how much notice Linden Labs in general take of what anyone, including Blondin, says at these meetings unless it suits them so to do.

I have spent the last two hours talking with Gavin on the sim that-used-to-be-Whorlebow-and-is-now-Zindra.

We have decided to call a community meeting prior to meeting with Blondin on Monday. This will allow the development of a collective agenda that the land owners in Zindra agree upon.

The meeting will take place Sunday, August 16th at 10AM SL time. At the just-moved sim of Zindra http://slurl.com/secondlife/Whorlebow/125/115/30 (this is the current slurl - if it updates before then I will re-post it).

Some items we will discuss are:

-The 1.22 Viewer - How its survival impacts ours.
- The Sim of Zindra - The new Town Hall of the continent of Zindra.
- Marketing your Adult Continent to a broad audience.

I will personally fly around the Adult continent and get this information to as many landowners as possible. (I guess I have to make the userlist for this group since none of the officers think it is their responsibility). Anyone wanting a paying job helping to gather information please send me a IM.

Please add agenda items as needed. Thanks.

Blimey.. i take back what i said about things not getting changed quickly.. Whorlebow and Zindra have now switched (i.e. the bit of sea that used to be called "Zindra" is now called Whorlebow and the bit of land that was Whorlebow is now "Zindra".

That makes more sense than swapping out Arapaima and Zindra.

Are the Zindra ocean sims still rated Mature?

O.O

Well, it really was a 5 minute job to do but I'm amazed at the fact they actually did it. I'm really amazed they did it if I'm perfectly honest.

They'll have to do something to cock it up.. like carve it up and sell it off or something. It's just not natural for them to a) do something we asked for and b) to do it as we asked.