Anyone Attending the Protest!!!!

I don't think so, Paypal blocks access to any porn sites they become aware of but as far as I'm aware, despite some issues, Paypal will still work here.

Finally getting caught up on this.

OK, lets try this. As I have said before I am a sploder king. I don't own any sploders, but have made 12k in 2 months from sploders. Sploders were my lively hood. And now I have lost that source of income. Am I upset? no. Am I protesting? no. Why? because I knew weeks ago this was coming, anyone that actually keeps up with SL news knew. So why is it such a surprise now? The time to protest came and went quite a while back. No amount of protesting now is going to change the law. perhaps if people had protested when the law was first proposed, it wouldn't be a law now.

Now just why am I not upset? Easy I have lost 5k in the casinos; donated 3k. And why did I lose those Ls? It certainly had nothing to do with the owners of the gambling machine being able to set the payout. I mean none of those machines are rigged, me hitting the same losing combination 5 times in a row was just a coincidence. { ya, I know it was just that casino, and I can't say I have ever had any problems with gambling machine owners when I have had to contact them}.

Will I miss the sploder? yes. Will I mis the cheating arse casinos {yes I know not all of them were cheats}? F... no. Personally I would love to see what percent of those protesting own gambling machines.
For me the sploder was just an added extra to my Friday nights. I'm am where I am because I like the company and music. For me it was like the old penny a point rummy I used to play, we didn't care about the money, it just made the cards and conversation a bit more interesting. But it wouldn't have been missed.

Well I was at the protest but I wasn't protesting and I don't own gambling machines. My main beef is with how sudden this has happened, I really don't like how quickly the turned the knife. If a private estate manager did that to a tenant, the tenant would get a lot of sympathy. However the situation would be the same "There's not a lot you can do", but LL should be more tactful. I find it hard to believe they only realised there was a problem with this yesterday and immediately changed policy.

Oh hold on I did buy some gambling machines a while back, but they never really made an appearance!

Did everyone miss the "no advertising gambling" policy a few months back? That's pretty drastic. If you were paying attention you would have known what might have been coming.

I was anticipating it...and I don't have a stake in the matter!

Yes, but I imagine each bank has its own legal department advising them. And everyone knows lawyers never agree.

I can certainly see some bank legal departments here and there opting to define SL as an "online gambling site" based on the fact it is a site that has online gambling.

I'd say there are *some* comparisons -- but ya, not the strongest ones.

If anything, this gambling protest in Pooley makes the ageplay protest in Ambleside a few months ago look positively tame.



Well, there's a big difference between being childlike and being childish.

Mari

Agreed about the advertising policy and I really think they should have taken this action then, the writing was on the wall but a lot of people don't read the blogs, yes it's their fault as there is always a link when you login.

Then there would have been those who thought "Ok there's a problem, but we'll be given notice", which I don't think is an unreasonable position.

Neumann I disagree! The issue here is not US gaming laws or desires for taxes and control over internet money- the issue here is Linden Labs has allowed these people to invest in and participate in the SL economy in this way for years now and has lined their own pockets with these people's money and now rather than find an equitable solution for all and include those affected in the process of finding such a solution, they have overnight put them out of business and said to bad so sad- thanks for your money. The beef really should be with Linden Labs as they are the ones who have sold this virtual economy and world to an international community and THEY need to find solutions to such issues that considers that International community. I am quite sure there is another solution- maybe for example gaming could be housed on servers where gaming is allowed. Maybe entrance to such establishments on the grid will have to be restricted to those who can legally participate. I don't know- but to try to make this a US government issue is not accurate. It is a Linden Lab issue as they serve an international community. And frankly their disregard for so many of the residents of that community and failure to include them in the process of policy making that affects them both economically and otherwise is outrageous.

You could be right, others have said they were told there was a fraud issue with LL. They moved their bank so that might not have helped.

Actually does anyone know why they moved their bank? Maybe it was the gambling that forced that move.

Yes thanks, this must be the most stupid, arrogant and elitist thread i ever saw in this forum. And I have to say most of the threads here result in just this elitist bashing on newbies, campers, gamblers and no payment info residents. People do you ever start thinking before you write here? You really believe that no payment residents are not creating content and contributing to sl as much as you do? My experience tells me other Things. This forum is called resident answers not resident bashing and no payment residents are residents too, if you like it or not. I'm really, really disgusted of your reaction here.

On top of this, I just checked with the WSE web site (I held a minor stock in a failing gambling machine company) and a bunch of companies posted announcements stating that they were either closing down the gambling side of their businesses but relied more on other ventures or were re-tooling their business model to comply with LL. A couple of the companies stated they had already started re-thinking things after the ad ban.

I guess we'll be seeing which establishments were more professional and which weren't!

...particularly when the "no advertising sexual ageplay" policy was followed with an outright ban on the practice within SL. A clear precedent for how this policy has gone.

Mari

I see where you'd be upset. However, this isn't a matter of content creation so much as putting RL$ into SL's economy.

I know a couple no-payment content creators that have large incomes from the stuff they make...I bet a few of you even have their products! They rent land on a private sim and see huge profit compared to their expenses. They also don't rely on gambling for income. They rely on their talents instead.

This won't affect most non-payment legitimate content creators.

There's still camping, anyway!!

I dont have any kind of gambling on my sim, nor campers for that matter though I had considered putting in some thematic type campsets at one time. I think you can safely say you'll see:
a) camping chairs disappear from many if not most places. Its not worthwhile to have them if you can't pay for them in some way or another.
b) most clubs will stop holding contests with cash prizes or there will be an entry fee to join the contests for the same reason listed above. Sploders used to fund a good part of these giveaways by the owners. I know I couldn't afford to hand out Ls to the tune of 3-4k a night without some way to recoup the expense.

thanks for confirming my opinion. An all the gampling devices, the sploders and raffle balls in all variations did drop from the sky or were delivered by LL? did you ever look at the most advanced gadgets in this line of business? A lot of content creators have a lot to learn and work to get their creations on the same quality level.

And thanks again, you do exactly know how in this forum camping is treated.

For just a moment...and I mean a a real *microsecond*...I was ambivalent about the news. But then I realized that I've never visited a "lively and entertaining" casino in world. Just rows and rows of zombies...and the occasional cluster of people chatting while they yanked their virtual levers. I think that's when I realized casinos were nothing more than a high-risk version of camping chairs...and their bling and scripts sucked the energy right out of a sim.

So...I'm terribly sorry for the casino owners who found an easy way to turn a buck in SL by laying down a prefab, and stocking it with gambling machines. But I won't miss you. And something tells me the pillars of SL's virtual economy are far from crumbling as a result of this.

Who knows? If the flood of people angry about losing their gambling-jones fix storms away from the game in a huff...maybe...just maybe...LL will do a clean sweep of their accounts and return some last names to circulation.

That's a cop out. It doesn't take money to learn how to script. It takes practice and necessity. In fact, putting money into scripting makes it HARDER to learn scripting.

I learned what I have of scripting through asking questions, looking through freebies and figuring out what does what. I have yet to pay someone for custom scripting yet my products aren't low-grade by any means!



Then you'd know how casinos have been looked at this whole time...yet apparently non-payment people have been doing it all this time anyway!

Why would they give a shit what a bunch of people they'll most likely will never meet have to say about them?

Hehe ihad to scroll back to see what you were disagreeing with

use quotes. I saw an announcement over *cough* a gamlbing channel the one and only group i belong to that is a casino in second life and it looks to me that its mostly users worried about the free lindens. Casinos are from what I have seen mostly money loosing ventures camping can and will move to other venues and many casinos never make a profit and give away lindens via camping in fact MOST casinos in sl loose tons of money and seem to only do it for the popularity. I actually dont understand the motivation behind running a casino in sl giving away free lindens. I"m assuming that they have a lot of real world cash to burn (something I don't or wont). I have a money tree and likely as a result of casinos closing open up one camping spot to give someone a "job".

I have only ever been to one casino that was actually successful and I rarely if ever gambled I went as a new player for freeplay and blew the money on uploads so no one actualy made a dime on any money i did win on gambling. THE OWNER however stands to loose a bundle as i think he has 3 or 4 sims by now. He can script he never spent a dime on his scripts everything is his etc.

The protest gave me the impresssion from the signs that this had nothing to do with what i'm speaking of and that it has to do with freedom of creativity and such. Since we all know there really isn't such a thing as total freedom and everyone is talking about freedom not the impact on the land market etc I saw nothing to protest.

I'm not sure what sort of true impact it will have on the economy it depends whether the owners of the casinos can see they way to doing something else game related. (arcades for example this is something i do i dont have slots but i have been working on making a little arcade which i prefer hands down to gambling and there is an element of competition etc) there are a few other things i can think of that would be cool to do.

Now scriptors who actualy can script who have beeen scripting slots can script other things so they can now script the arcade games in fact it would be in their best interests to their customers to give their releases to their present customers to replace any casino games with something else (again I use the idea of arcade games which is also very neat and much more cool to me)

I was also asked today to fly a flag on my property. Well i'm not a huge supporter of gambling as it has a problem of addictions and people loosing their shirts and lives to it so i can't fly the flag even though I have been known to use a slot machine im not one who goes out looking to gamble.

so does it have an impact yes it does but they can convert to another game type industry as I know of very few hardcore people who only come to SL to gamble

p.s. also there is more then one neumann so you might want to quote me or use my first name you know me inworld so i knew who you were tlaking to

see you

Legal argument for voluntary-pot contributions games:

To be counted as gambling, the activity must involve the following three elements:

. prize - what you win
. chance - the element of chance, rather than pure skill
. consideration - pay to play (as in, ante, or put money in a slot machine)

All three elements must be present.

Any game which does NOT require pay to play in order to win is therefore not gambling, and not illegal.

Thus, we could still have Bingo, or Tringo, or any sort of contest in which there was some element of chance as long as "consideration" is not required. In other words, as long as you can play and win regardless of whether you pay to play or not.

Thus, such games which depend entirely on voluntary pots and/or contributions from the host, but do not require "consideration" would be legal and not covered under the new LL policy.

coco

Maybe all the protesters could take all that energy they are expending protesting and take a few minutes to write their Representatives or Senators to get the law changed... No wait, those protesters are AFK...

I'm not agree because people play games for win or increase linden. Are you going to pay money in your arcade game? I think that no hehe. For play a arcade game here i prefer pay and play a mmorpg. Or perhaps buy a machine for play with friends at my land and can't see people programming months for provide a enough quality game for play inside sl and buy one for 15000 lindens each?

People use gambling for improve their lindens for play just have sl , and are a lot of games and other atractions in sl without cost...

yes they can replace their games with other games as i said those protesting are the gamblers to get free lindens. There will be ways to get free lindens but remember those lindens are paid for by the casino owner. Also he can charge a cover charge and make games freeplay (saw that in another thread). As for slot machines some owners make their own (my first scripting in sl to learn scripting was to create casino style games) now some casino owners buy their games. If you truly read your post I made a suggestion that he replace games people bought with some other type of game that is NOT a gambling machine. There are ways people are just to angry at present to see it.

My arcade games for the most part are free yes. I offer free lindens via a money tree and as i also said I will offer a camping job as well maybe now that i see a possible shift. The arcade games which are based on skill will offer the opportunity to if you win enough games get gift certificates and merchandise to my store. YOu can do whatever you like with the certificate its transferable so you can even sell if if you dont like my styles. The point is there are other things people can do and as i said those protesting are the crowd that want free lindens. Well if casino owners actualy want to remain in SL and give away free lindens they can convert to another game and still give away the free lindens.

YOu can still even play a slot machine just as long as yo dont put money in them but the most my arcade gamse charges is 1 linden per play and some are free

so since you aren't aware of what I DO in an effort to provide gaming i think you need to realize that your mistaken in your assumptions (also in the interpretation of most of my post which wasn't that badly written I have written worste in an effort to post in a short time ^^)

Hello Wilhelm Neumann please to meet you

Well i understand you. For example i'm a programmer and i was programming a new game for sl that not exist here , are fun and not based on random numbers etc , only intelligence... and some luck. Now i don't have any reason for finish it.

How many people are going to buy it? I prefer go to disco and have fun dancing with friends before buy a game for play at my land with friends some times...

When you program a game and is a good one you know can offer it to casinos for example and they buy a lot of them but if you put it like a other thing in a shop... A lot of effort and little benefit or none. For this better make clothes but sl just have enough shops with them... etc

And other thing is that a lot of people win money in casinos for buy things in shops and now can't do it at least without use their rl money , and all can't do this...

Camping is ok but not enough for have fun buying all you wish without use your rl money. The thing i try to show you is that prohibit gambling will affect a lot of people in sl. And other business too

Good luck with your game

Regards

Have you thought of Giving away Prizes instead of cash?
I Invented a Game with a water Imp that pops up out of a pool and Challenges you to a Riddle contest. Answer three questions right and you get One object chosen at random off an Inventory list contained within the Imp.
It's a Game, the player need not pay to Play, but as an attraction to my Sim it causes guests to come around, and Stay around looking for other Easter Eggs. while there, they Buy other things and generally Enjoy themselves.
No, it's Not Vegas, and my profits wouldn't be as high as a Slot machine, but it isn't against Any law to give things away, and No one has Complained about the imp Yet even though he verbally abuses you when you answer his riddles Incorrectly.

If people Use their Heads for something other than a Convenient place to Store their Hats they can find Lots of Fun and legal ways to profit from SL.

"Why is it everything we enjoy is either Ilegal, Immoral, or Fattening?"
Unknown.

Angel.

Added in Edit:
Ok, i just read thoroughly the SL policy on gambling, IF i set up My Imp to Charge and awarded Prizes OR Money i would STILL not be in Violation of SL's policies as the system relies neither on random number Generation NOR the Outcome of RL events.
It relies ONLY on the Players Ability to Answer skill testing Questions, and So, the game would be legal.

If you are THAT desperate to have Gambling of some sort, THERE is your Loophole.
I found it after, Oh, lets say 5 seconds of study. Instead of Wasting Oxygen Kvetching about the Changes to SL policy why don't you look at how you can Alter your systems to bring them In Line with policy?

"Adopt, Adapt, and Improve."
Old Axiom on Unexpected change.

A.

Hello

Well this is a add on for your land. And people can have fun with it at the same time they can play etc. But is not my case. I don't have a business in sl. Do you thing people are going to my land only for play my game if i don't have nothing more to sell? The game for your land is a add on i was programming my game to offer it to others for their business and you programmed your own one...

For me have no reason for finish it know. I think a lot of time for program it at least two or more time more than other sl games for nothing people go to your land for buy your items not for play thats is a add on that make it more funny if wish play but i can sell enough machines for pay the time i inveted in it.

Like i said before i prefer and i thing all , i prefer go to disco and dance before play a game in my land in a machine i bought... You offer your game like a add on in your land i need sell it and now if casino owners can't buy it allthought is a really nice and amazing game i can sell it enough due to this. People are not stay at their land playing it better go for shoppig dancing etc

Regards