Landbots 101

However, if you eliminated all the land speculators, no-one would miss them; in fact, everyone would give a big cheer. The idea that they provide a service by snaffling all the cheap land and thus making it easier to get rid of land quickly is pretty thin. Actually, the land dealers who DO provide a service are arguably those who buy entire sims (that most residents couldn't afford) and resell them in affordable parcels. But those who just speculate are parasites.

Has anyone considered the economics of this?

Everybody is basically complaining about the immorality of this and it's possible load on db servers. In this respect I agree because "at this moment" Elanthius is in a monopoly position as regards having a fully functioning bot that can operate at speeds quicker than a manual player. I myself have applied my full vote quota but only so that LL have this issue flagged up to them. I want it flagged up to them because of where this development will go based on market principles.

To start with as I have said Elanthius "at this moment" has some market primacy because of the edge he has developed. In the near future others will either make Elanthius an offer he can't refuse for his software (not a sleeping with the fishes one I hope) or they will simplly build a faster and better bot. Furthermore, there will also be others who will see the opportunity of a quick buck who will release a copy for sale at a peanuts price hoping for mass sales.

That given; in the medium term we will see these bots widely available to anyone for free or so cheap it might as well be free.

So what happens then? Well there will be tens of thousands of them skipping all over the metaverse land and making db enquiries. This is what LL should be concerned about because when that happens they had better be ready to cope or they will have serious problems and that is why I want LL to have a heads up on this development through the proposal.

As regards the land economy things will soon return to normal. Let's say for the sake of argument market rate is L$15 sqm. A thousand people and myself will set our bots to search for land at L$14 and after a day of searching our bots return nil results or maybe catch a couple sale typo mistakes and some badly priced land. What do we do? Well the next day I'm sure we would send them out at L$14.5 sqm and so on and so on. If there is high demand for land then at some point we are going to have set our search range above L$15 and thus set a new market rate and of course vice versa for a slump in demand. In fact as I write this it becomes readily apparent that we will all be sending many bots out, some to buy at below market and others sent out set only to collect data on the above market land.

Therefore, in effect the land economy will remain the same in operation and principle, but it will just be a lot more faster, a lot more responsive/sensitive and a lot more informed. The only advantage a human buyer will have is the appreciation of a view and the setting of the land and so the market edge will return to skilled human players; that is untill the bots start taking 360 degree snapshots! Therefore I propose that the biggest threat and what should be the biggest concern at this moment is the future db load these bots will create.

Elanthius is just in the "financially fortunate" position in being the first to think and develop this product and also in the "morally unfortunate" position in being the first to think and develop this product in front of his peers.

Regards - Enigma Cassavetes

Of course if we or LL don't want to accept this inevitability then a simple fix would be to set all land sales to auction. The seller put's in their minimum price sets the length of auction time. At least under this scenario the bots provide a useful function and get the bidding going and gives time for the most slothful land baron to get around to the site and as long as the facility to sell to a specific person is retained (outside of the auction process) then I think this the fairest way forward. Anyone else think we should put this forward as a proposal? If it's good enough for LL's land selling process then it should be good for us.

I don't see much difference between land traders and bots honestly. The bots are controlled by land traders and are simply a tool. Yes before the land bots were on the scene an average player did have a small chance of finding a deal on land, but still most of those deals went to land traders who spent all their time refreshing the search page. Now those deals simply go to the land dealers with the landbots.

Businesses always have to evolve and change thier business models as technology evolves. Those that don't go out of business or are consumed by the business that did adapt and change.

Two problems with it that come quickly to mind are the fact that it would make it difficult for someone who needs to tier down quickly to avoid a higher tier payment to do so, and its susceptibility to "eBay Fever" that often afflicts the LL land auctions, where bidders get so wrapped up in the necessity of being a winner that they bid the land up to ridiculously high levels. This latter would have detrimental effects on land prices.

You are , however, ignoring the use of mutiple bots - and increased reasources usage.

Somone said they use 40 bots i beleive?

Kin of hard to control 40 avatars w/o a bot.

Most land sellers sell at the same price they used to (about 6 - 8/sqm). But now we have middle men, who raise that price 2-4, so land prices are what we see. (or land sellers sell at the same price as the bots. either way, it's academic.)

Don't think land bots affect the price? Ask yourself why every piece of land out there sells for just about the exact same price/sqm. Because that's where the bot runners have the formulas set. The total homogenization of land prices is not natural, it's what happens when prices are fixed by middle men.

If you want to tier down quickly set the auction length to 24hrs or less or to the time remaining till your billing date.

Sounds to me like you are a land trader who is being beat up by bots and wants rid of them but still wish to retain your own ability to beat up on land sellers and land buyers

No different than 40 people clicking the refresh button constantly.

Of course if we or LL don't want to accept this inevitability then a simple fix would be to set all land sales to auction. The seller put's in their minimum price sets the length of auction time. At least under this scenario the bots provide a useful function and get the bidding going and gives time for the most slothful land baron to get around to the site and as long as the facility to sell to a specific person is retained (outside of the auction process) then I think this the fairest way forward. Anyone else think we should put this forward as a proposal? If it's good enough for LL's land selling process then it should be good for us.

It's an interesting concept. On the surface, it appears that it would cut out the middleman (or bot), gaining a higher profit for the original seller of the land. I don't think the buyers would save any money, though - the eBay effect.

I would think that many of the land barons who win the Linden auctions would like to get more money. However, from what I understand, for some, their business model involves winning multiple sims and then parcelling them up and selling them off one at a time before claiming each of their subsequent sims (to keep tier down). They would likely therefore want to have the option of setting very short auction times.

Now for problems this could cause buyers: Perhaps a buyer wants a 512 lot and most any flat green would do. However, they must bid on auctions with a variety of end times, and may find themselves bidding on multiple auctions at a time to make sure that they get something. What happens when people win an auction and have changed their mind about the land because they've found something better?

Here's another issue: What if I want to buy a total of 4096 sq.m., but the seller has the lots parcelled into 1024 lots? Currently, I can show up and buy each lot and join them together (and I have done this actually). Under the proposed system, I must win the auction for each lot, or try to contact the seller and convince him/her to take them out of auction and sell me all four at a good price, which means I could end up paying a lot more otherwise than I would have. Or I could take my chances at auction and end up maybe with just one or two of them.

I think there could be a workable way to do auctions, but it's far from a perfect solution.

except its one person who owns all 40 bots. I see that as different.

I would suggest doing the throttling based on IP address or CC. Additionally unverified accounts would only be able to see properties that have been on the market for at least 10 min (this way you wouldn't have people using an unverified account to do the searching and a verified to do purchasing.

But is it really unfair? RL businesses automate all the time. Why should SL be any different?

It's unfair because bot owners aren't paying a cent for their disproportionate use of resources.

Make it L$10/search and everyone wins. The normal buyer spends an insignificant amount of money to browse the land sales, the land barons have to weigh spending a possibly large amount of L$ to grab a good deal cutting into their own profit, and bot owners would quickly go bankrupt.

It's unfair because bot owners aren't paying a cent for their disproportionate use of resources.

Make it L$10/search and everyone wins. The normal buyer spends an insignificant amount of money to browse the land sales, the land barons have to weigh spending a possibly large amount of L$ to grab a good deal cutting into their own profit, and bot owners would quickly go bankrupt.

No, because at 10L$ per search that's still chump change for even your beginner baby land-baron / bot-runner. It only hits the regular residents and blocks out new as-yet unverified residents from using the search function.

SL as a virtual "other world" ought to operate in ways analagous to the real world. Land sales are things that should be done in person in a leisurely fashion, just as one might buy land in RL. Having the whole land-buying procedure distorted by a handful of parasites who are only concerned with SL for how much money they can squeeze out of it, has a large negative impact on everyone else.

Plus you didn't address the eBay Fever aspect of my response. I guess you were too busy thinking up ways to insult me rather than wasting your time on a logical, coherent, all-encompassing response.

No, because at 10L$ per search that's still chump change for even your beginner baby land-baron / bot-runner.

Given the number of seconds in a day, divided by 5 for the throttling, times 10 for the suggested charge, that's L$172,800 (almost $650) per day to run a single bot.