Yes, Landbots screw us once again, so keep cheering them on!
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Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
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05-14-2007 12:09
From: Ralph Doctorow I just confirmed this and bug reported it.
1) AV "Seller" sets a piece of land for sale for L$100 2) AV "Buyer" selects buy land - the purchase price is shown as L$100 3) "Seller" changes the price to L$110 4) "Buyer" clicks Purchase on the purchase menu that still shows L$100
The result is "Buyer" pays "Seller" L$110 without ever seeing that as the price.
IMHO this is a clear SL bug which LL should immediately do something about and should compensate people who lost money because of it. They should probably also consider banning people who exploited it, although it may be tough to prove intent. I wonder if this con can be used in stores when you buy clothes and other things? Elinah
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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05-14-2007 12:14
From: Tender Pintens Sorry Colette but none of that is enforceable and not going to work to police something that can not be circumvented. If someone wants to make money with either a buying bot that buys low, or a selling bot that swaps the price to sell it high, its just not going to happen. Programs such as this only stop honest people, and so far both of these bots are being used for less than honest and downright exploitable things. Well, we always come back to this. The idea is not that perfection is required, or even that coding is required. The first step is ALWAYS to make something illegal, officially and out loud. And punish it when it is found. Of course people will still find ways of doing something, but unless it is illegal, then - you know, there's no reason not to do it! (Which is part of why expecting code to substitute for law will never work where humans are involved, Philip. That's an arms race you can never catch up to.) The idea of registering bots as bots is another thing that would help, and would be philosophically defensible. coco
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Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
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05-14-2007 12:25
From: Rusty Dagger By now everyone should realize that there is nothing you can do about it, and NOTHING LL is going to do about it. LL Don't care who, what, or how much people get ripped off as long as LL gets their money first!!!!!!!! People have had whole sims stolen by Landbots and LL has done nothing! So I wouldn't expect anything to be done about this practice now or in the future! They Don't care about people, They only care weather your CC # or Paypal account is Good! Well there is one answer... How about a Second life escrow service? Elinah
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Valentino Tendaze
Eternal Optimist
Join date: 9 Jan 2007
Posts: 279
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Arbor Project
05-14-2007 12:27
From: Elinah Iredell What is the tree planting project? As others have mentioned, the Arbor Project; trying to make the mainland more beautiful by reclaiming 16m2 ad-parcel lots and educating/dissuading the people who split the plots. A bit like you're doing - buying small plots (as long as they're not over-priced) and planting trees or gardens. You can find out more at the Arbor infohub in-world at secondlife://pero/185/158/107, or on the website, http://arbor.npl.com/
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ron Spaight
Registered User
Join date: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 37
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This just happened to me on Sunday
05-14-2007 12:39
On sunday i was making a deal with a friend on some land a special for him. I could not set the part for just him to be able to buy and thought no one was around so put the price we agreed on and poof the land was sold to a bot. It flew in and then gone. I did IM the person and they said they would give the land back however We waited like 1 for him to finaly arrive. I think this is worse than the child thing. After all these are adults and no one is forced to do anything in the world. But this bot thing we can not. From: Sarah Nerd Well for all you land bot supporters... Here is the latest unethical use of landbots. Well most people are aware of how landbot users have been using the bots fast buying ability to take advantage of human and or latency errors. For example someone lists land for sale, lag or error causes the person to miss a number, bot comes and buys in a split second, or someone is trying to sell land to a friend or group land and a bot jumps in and auto buyers faster then the person acually standing on the plot can even move the mouse to click the buy button. But thats old news to most of you. If not see this thread = /327/7a/176533/1.html Well now one bot user is using the bot to bait and switch residents. For example, The land is set for at 4400L. This is a decent deal, people land. The bot uses it's faster than human speed to quickly change the price to 44000L in hopes the person who clicks buy doesnt notice the extra number because the prices look similar on a glance, or else they are lagged to the point that the buy window doesnt update until it's to late and they have paid 44K for 512 meters of land. Bait and switch is an old dirty trick I've seen a few times in the past but ad the bots abilty to change the price faster than any human can change it, and it becomes a more effective dirty unethical method to take advantage of people. So bring on your arguments of how a few bot dealers give back errors, or that this is the new way sl will be and bots are just more effective, But this type of speed and power should not be allowed when it can and obviously IS being used to take advantage of others. Or at least not be allowed for this type of unethical use. This week I've heard of 3 people getting taken with bait and switch, and 1 friend lose half a sim when trying to sell to a friend, on top of all the similar situtions that have been happening last few months.
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Elinah Iredell
Registered User
Join date: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 269
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05-14-2007 12:47
From: Valentino Tendaze As others have mentioned, the Arbor Project; trying to make the mainland more beautiful by reclaiming 16m2 ad-parcel lots and educating/dissuading the people who split the plots. A bit like you're doing - buying small plots (as long as they're not over-priced) and planting trees or gardens. You can find out more at the Arbor infohub in-world at secondlife://pero/185/158/107, or on the website, http://arbor.npl.com/Thanks you two... it looks great. Elinah
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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05-14-2007 12:57
From: Raymond Figtree The landbot owners go to a lot of trouble to code and maintain an automated system designed to buy land below market and resell it higher. They will never set their bots to only buy land that is set at market prices. Bots were born to swoop. And, according to LL's TOS, this is an honest and legal thing to do.
who said anything about making them buy at market prices? Theres a big difference between 2$L/sqm and market prices. They can still buy severely undervalued plots under the system I described - they just cant buy plots where people left the zero off. Use 1.5L/sqm instead - Its not crucial - it just needs to be higher than 1/10th the going rate on land to reduce swooping due to leaving off a 0. In addition if they didnt buy $1L parcels the entire transfer problem would be minimized. Anyone intentionally running a bot designed to swoop those two instances - is basically a crook. Just becuase they will give refunds/land back when cuaght doesnt make them honest - just more honest than those that dont.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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05-15-2007 08:21
8 lousy votes? C'mon people - get out and vote! MISC-204From: Meade Paravane There's a jira bug that makes voting a little annoying.. ...For others not familiar with voting for JIRA bugs, do this: - Go to http://jira.secondlife.com
- Login with your SL name and password (look for the login link on the top right)
- At the top-right of the screen, enter MISC-204 in the Quick Search box and press return
- The MISC-204 issue will appear (it may take a minute - be patient)
- On the lower-left, find the hypertext that says Vote for it and click it
- That's it
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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05-15-2007 08:25
Grr I hate that system ..
"Log in to see more options"
I log in and it tells me to log in still
but wont let me try to log in again.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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05-15-2007 08:30
/me points to her edited post above.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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05-15-2007 08:32
From: Meade Paravane /me points to her edited post above. hmmmm - I think Im messed up becuase I tried logging on from the issues page. Edit - had to clear cookies to be able to log on as you described. Seems to be working now.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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05-15-2007 08:38
That would be the aforementioned annoying JIRA bug. Login only seems to work from the front page. Once you get logged in, it keeps you logged in for a while and can go directly to other issues. The trick is to look on the upper right of the page whenever you go to JIRA and make sure you're logged in. If you're not, go to the Home page (upper left), log in, then go back to the issue. /me quotes WEB-47, the JIRA login bug... From: Torley Linden This eats up my time daily. From: Rob Linden Source of frustration for me too. Bugged the vendor about it, and will hopefully see a result soon
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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05-15-2007 08:40
From: Meade Paravane That would be the aforementioned annoying JIRA bug. Login only seems to work from the front page. Once you get logged in, it keeps you logged in for a while and can go directly to other issues. The trick is to look on the upper right of the page whenever you go to JIRA and make sure you're logged in. If you're not, go to the Home page (upper left), log in, then go back to the issue. /me quotes WEB-47, the JIRA login bug... Bit Ironic the Bug report / repair system - Is in itself Bugged.
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Tiziana Catteneo
Registered User
Join date: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 187
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05-15-2007 10:21
It look like only landbarons and landbots (the ones who buy land in less than a second and put ban line all around your land) loose their money, so I don't vote
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Sarah Nerd
I BUY LAND
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 796
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05-15-2007 10:30
From: Tiziana Catteneo It look like only landbarons and landbots (the ones who buy land in less than a second and put ban line all around your land) loose their money, so I don't vote Maybe you should look harder, Mostly average reidents are losing land to the unethical land bots. /327/7a/176533/1.html
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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05-15-2007 10:45
From: Sarah Nerd Maybe you should look harder, Mostly average reidents are losing land to the unethical land bots. /327/7a/176533/1.htmlMISC-204 isn't about landbots, it's about ending a bug that so far is only hitting people who run land bots and to which there is an immediate and effective solution (don't run a bot). There is no such thing as an ethical land bot.
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Sys Slade
Registered User
Join date: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 626
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05-15-2007 10:53
From: Sarah Nerd Maybe you should look harder, Mostly average reidents are losing land to the unethical land bots. /327/7a/176533/1.htmlThat's a whole other issue to what's in this thread. As I understood it from reading elsewhere, this action was targeted at landbot owners jumping in to buy up low priced land. If it's targeted at landbots, then it's an anti-landbot campaigner who's just hit the "innocents". If it's not targeted at landbots, then unless this is a landbot owners doing, it has nothing to do with landbots. Using a custom coded bot to switch prices on land is not the same as using one to buy parcels cheap. Maybe the word conbot should be used 
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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05-15-2007 10:58
You sure about that, Kitty? I could see how it might hit landbots more often (a fact I can certainly live with) but I think this could hit anybody who's buying land.
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
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05-15-2007 11:13
From: Meade Paravane You sure about that, Kitty? I could see how it might hit landbots more often (a fact I can certainly live with) but I think this could hit anybody who's buying land. I'm not sure about anything  . LL should be able to throttle how often you can reprice land though (depending on what exactly happens and similar to how land sales is throttled), which would keep on hitting the bots but might offer some protection for everyone normal since you can't predict when someone will click that little buy button. The "conbot" could be targetting landbots specifically too. If it was happening to regular end-buyers I think there would have been a post about it by now. In the end, it's still something that does need fixing, but if bot-owners are the only ones losing any money, they might gain some empathy for the people they grab land from (not actually holding my breath for that one).
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Rock Ryder
Registered User
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 384
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05-15-2007 11:22
The answer is simple.
Never, ever, EVER, buy land. It is still not yours when you have 'bought' it. The words 'buy' and 'sell' when it comes to land in SL are highly misleading, if not fraudulent.
Instead, rent your land, especially from the private island sim owners. The MOST you stand to lose, ever, if anything goes wrong, is one week's rent. Renting is also honest. There is nothing else to pay, apart from the rent (as opposed to the ongoing 'tier' payments after you have 'bought' land).
Buying land is thwart with dangers, not only from the landbots (the threads on this are indeed heartbreaking, but salutary lessons should be learnt), but also from alt deletion (read the horror stories in the separate thread about this), random account deletions, money going through but land not transferred, land bought with all objects included, then it turns out that almost all the objects are no transfer, etc etc etc.
Anybody who buys land in SL is asking for trouble. The possibilities for disaster are legion, and new methods for losing all are cropping up all too often.
Kill the speculation, the landbots, the losses, the exposure, the grief, by renting. Private Island Sim owners can speak to a Linden about problems at any time through the Concierge service, so can help a tenant with any land problems they may have. You only have to read the forums to know the usual response from LL to residents (other than private island sim owners) is almost nil or less.
Get smart, get renting.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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05-15-2007 11:27
Fiddle-dee-dee.
I like owning my own land.
Nobody ever really owns land irl, either - the government can always declare imminent domaine on mine!
And even the GOVERNMENT doesn't really own land. Ashes to ashes, dirt to dirt, eventually.
coco
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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05-15-2007 11:29
This message has been brought to you by the Land Barons' Association of Second Life.
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tristan Eliot
Say What?!
Join date: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 494
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05-15-2007 11:35
Not many are cheering them on, but one has to wonder why there is such little support to change anything about the land system in SL. Many proposals, very little support. 
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Wildefire Walcott
Heartbreaking
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 2,156
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05-15-2007 11:37
Holy crap! I bet this is how certain estate owners are gaming the Land Sales search by putting up L$1 startup prices that are invalid by the time you port to the land. They detect you appearing and immediately change the price and/or 'for sale' status of the property. Awesome. *grrrrr*
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Tiziana Catteneo
Registered User
Join date: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 187
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05-15-2007 11:40
I think that's a problem of 10 landbarons running landscanner scripts and 3 landbots so why vote?
They open thread only if they loose money they only take from sl if they disappear sl is better
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