Important! Adult shops, clubs and services in SL

One of my soap-box cries as many of you may notice, is the increased accessibility to all things in SL and the transparency of barriers many of us perceive in RL.
The RL versions of the sex industry (yes, industry) are largely hidden to us, whether geographically or merely covertly. You don't have to look very far to find some evidence though; certain 'areas' of towns, some of the classifieds or cards and clubs.
It's so easy to just not look and pretend it's not there but it is there. Some call it the oldest profession in the world even.
In SL everything is just so much easier. To many this is an improvement. The personal factors already mentioned among the reasons why this is considered an improvement. There is inherent safety here.

I would think it would be in LL's interest, legally and physically to implement something like Ishtara suggests with a sim-wide filter that at entry presents the disclaimer which if agreed then lifts the lock-out on all of that class of land, beit 'mature' or Lewis' 'XXX'.
After all, if left to each and every vendor/club owner to implement their own filter, wouldn't it involve thousands upon thousands of scripts/objects/etc filling up LL's servers?
If not actually managed by LL at the login stage, at least a carefully constructed tool provided for the land owners.
It's ludicrous that LL put responsibility for under-age entry on customers when there is no recommended mechanisms provided.
We're not all script writers and the !quit/copybot fiasco proved how poorly managed, hackable tools can bring the grid to a crawl?

Implementing an "XXX" region class and enabling some new servers devoted to anything of a sexual nature must move to within, say a one month grace period, would have several great benefits to the entire SL community.

1) It would create a large demand for this new land, as all the sex based properties move there - more income for Linden Lab.

2) It would free up mainland space, which would enable others to expand, and add some much needed fluidity to the land market - more income for Linden Lab.

3) It would increase some land value, as many people don't want to be near those kind of places - more income for Linden Lab.

4) It would be far easier for those of us who have no interest in 'adult activities' in SL to be able to avoid things that we may find distasteful or offensive.

5) By forcing people to have verified account details in order to access 'XXX' regions, then Linden Lab have covered themselves in case little Johnny decides to indulge in cybersex. Perhaps this could even go as far as access being made a Premium account feature, as a further security procedure and additional income for Linden Lab.

6) This would make the merging of teen and adult grids - part of LL's plan - easier, and enable SL to get a 'teen' rating like Sims Online, making it more accessible and popular - more income for Linden Lab, and another step towards "Philip(with one L)'s dream.


The only 'downside' I can see is that there would be a temporary increase of policing for Linden Lab for those who refused to move their adult themed properties to the new land.

By the way, not everyone who has 'mature' land is interested in 'mature' activities - my land is on a mature sim simply because I liked the location, and it was nearby friends.

Lewis

I took this to be intended to be read as heavy irony. Do you really want to be for ever clicking buttons every time you cross a sim line? I don't.

What I object to here is the assumption that it's somehow OUR responsibility to stop someone else committing an offence. A mature sim is not for underage players. If an underage player wanders into a mature sim, that's HIS action and HIS responsibility (or his parent/guardian's responsibility). It's not MY responsibility.

Your comments are part of my thinking behind a separate "XXX" continent; once you've teleported there, then you are surrounded by XXX land or water; you don't have to keep going in and out of areas you may or may not be allowed to enter.

I can understand why people are objecting to being responsible for checking the age of those who visit - another reason why unverified accounts with full access is a bad idea; at the very least of forcing visitors to verify their accounts to visit XXX stuff then as many steps as possible have been taken to safeguard minors from accessing content that legally they are not supposed to; however it doesn't take much more than a few choice keywords and hitting the 'image' search tab on Google for little Johnny to end up accessing sufficient stuff for basic needs - without even directly visiting a porn site and the free tours most give.

Lewis

Deleted. I overlooked an important part so far:
4.1 ...you agree that you shall not: take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit Content as determined by Linden Lab at its sole discretion that is [...] abusive, vulgar, obscene, [...] or otherwise objectionable.

"Tansmit content" includes selling, I guess. A prim genital is already vulgar and obscene, even a female nipple is, when it comes to american laws and twisted moral standards. BDSM content can be deemed abusive in addition. Everything else LL dislikes (because it scares potential investors off) falls under "otherwise objectionable". So, there's no point anymore, SL is no longer an adult environment. In addition, the whole TOS now basically says "We can kick you out of here for any reason we're able to make up, and you don't own anything here".

"You bought this vacuum cleaner once, but according to our new license you agree never to use it in any way that gets it in contact with dust or dirt, otherwise we may claim the product back".

These legal ramblings are often open to contextual vagueness - ouch! two words I've never used before!
Surely LL can't be considering alienating what must be a huge number of revenue earning account holders. With possible competition from other quarters if they did 'puritanise' (oops, another one!) SL there would be a major shift toward a host providing a wider spectrum of entertainment?
Hopefully, this section of the regs is merely LL buying bullets rather than loading the gun.

Personally I don't think it ever should have been in the first place; I'm sure that it would be perfectly possible to have provided a far more wholesome and enjoyable environment without all the pixel slapping; after all if all people want is sex, isn't that what real life is designed for, rather than a computer game?

Lewis

.. and Sexually Transmitted Diseases, HIV and AIDS were designed to drive us onto computers? ooh, I forgot .. computer virus'

I stand by my earlier comment. Since it is here, cutting it out will damage LL and 'Be what you want to be' will be nothing but 'Be what LL want you to be'.

Devil's advocate...

Have you considered the possibility that by living in an "M"-rated sim yourself, and by not furnishing your land with adult content, you're actually diluting LL's existing attempts to "zone" x-rated content?

Is it reasonable to argue that adult content should be ghetto-ized, then go and move into the ghetto yourself and complain about all the adult content you see?

In your hypothetical scenario, wouldn't we just get a future Lewis Nerd complaining that all the donkey porn should be removed from the XXX-sims, because he doesn't want to look at it, and only bought XXX-sim land because it was pretty, and near friends....

IIRC, you have a big 70's-themed disco on your land. You can also buy, run, or visit big 70's-themed discos in real life. Why do you do it in a computer game?

Your answers may be surprisingly similar to those of people who choose to "pixel slap".

Not at all, because most of my friends aren't into that sort of stuff either; like minded individuals often seek out each other through socialising.

I don't know if you've ever tried looking for PG land in SL but there is actually very little available - especially larger plots. I only want to own land, I don't want to have to pay rent to a land baron.


bilbo... regarding HIV, STD's etc... that's all part of sexual promiscuity and people deviating from God's plan of one man/one woman together for life. It's even more prevalent in SL than RL because there's no chance of unwanted pregnancies or diseases, so people feel even less inhibited than their conscience would normally tell them - although often they forget that the other person may well be emotionally damaged by their actions.

Lewis

Think we should not be playing the prudish here, freedom of speech and expression is one of the most important things in SL, even if it is sexual contents that people are interested in.

The point of the issue here is that Linden Lab does shift responsibility rather then implement a system in the software to help with the problem. Same as for Copybot and IP theft issue. Guess they just relay anything new and good for some open source dudes in the future. Recently content creation and providing is more and more a problem and a pain. Danger of being copied, sued, lagging to death, lost of packets, lost of assets, grid's vulnerability, minors in main grid, increasing of prices to even be able to provide contents. What made Second Life great and made so many people join this community, resident created contents, is extremely penalized by the path Linden Lab is going now, the path of big bucks and corps, world wide 3D Internet and hands off to anything that isnt related to this.

Relationship between Linden Lab and creative Residents is clearly prejudiced, if they want a barren chit-chat world with a bunch of underage freeloaders and some big corps that advertise their RL products in there, they are doing good in this direction, but no idea why someone should have interest in such an environment, least of all big corps and important medias.

Thats why I foundend the "Residents Union" Group, to try to hinder Linden Lab in the distruction of this world as we know it, bringing anything to mainstream and making it senseless. If the only feedback LL gets is some people moaning in the forums and blog, nothing will change.

Oh please. When I carefully hinted at people with your particular form of delusion in another thread lately, I was advised not to open that "can of worms". And it was a good advice, because I can see that one is still, even in our modern times, not supposed to say that one is a reasonable person who doesn't believe in invisible beings like fairies, santa claus, the easter bunny or any form of god.
I'd now like to give you the same advice: don't open this can of worms. Let's try and keep forum discussions on a level that is compatible with sanity and reason, shall we? No alien abductions, werewolf bites or great plans of gods. Otherwise you disqualify yourself for any intelligent and reasonable discussion by showing that you have a distorted and superstitious view of human sexuality (among other things).

My faith is part of what makes me 'me', I can't simply 'switch it off' because someone, somewhere might get offended by my point of view. I guess it doesn't count that I may be offended by someone else's point of view?

I think if you read the Manufacturers Instruction Manual you'd understand that I'm not necesarily the one with the 'wrong' point of view.

Lewis

Well, without getting into religion, except to say that I firmly believe more people have been killed for praying to the 'wrong' piece of wood than have ever died from STDs, I should think that by being more prevalent in SL than RL might have even saved some people from unwanted pregnancies or diseases.

And just for the record, there are some heterosexual couples out here who live miles apart and use SL for a little intimacy. Not being a puritan doesn't automatically make you a pervert. Shades of grey. Freedom of choice and respect for others freedom of choice?

I wonder if I might answer a question with a question.

Why have sim ratings at all? Why can't we get rid of them?



- People advertise on signage to give an idea of what a public shop is about.

- As for private residences and private clubs, it's none of anyone's business.

- Hiding "naughty" on the grid, which is on the internet, is about as ridiculous as trying to hide the sight of water from passengers on an ocean liner.



Most notably, there are no clear definitions for "M" and "PG"! I don't blame the Company for this - there are no clear definitions in the motion picture industry either! It's a vague, general sense of culture that makes sense in the Western World, but nowhere else.

Would we force Pacific Islanders to wear avatar clothing at all times? Would we enforce the turban or the veil "when appropriate" by some standards?

This puts any service provider into the really awkward position of being culture police.

Do we really want the Company's representatives to do any such thing? I sure don't.

Perhaps.... but I don't pray to any piece of wood. And just because some people do things 'in the name of religion' doesn't mean they're really following the true teachings of that particular faith either.



I happen to be in one of those situations - 3,500 miles in fact - but we manage quite well without using SL for 'intimacy' as you put it. I know people have feelings, needs etc - but it's when people go from 'private' to 'public' that is the line that I don't think people should cross. What someone does in the privacy of their own home or skybox is their concern - whether I like it or not. However, if I go to a public place - a park, a club or whatever - I shouldn't be faced with some of the things that are out there. A group search with particular keywords can bring up some very disturbing results, that you couldn't even imagine being a turn on.

Lewis

Welp.. stop the thread, I'm getting off.

Ishtara.. you had some good ideas.. could really have been refined into something useful. I hope you'll indeed open another discussion to help hone your suggestions into something we'll all find helpful, useful, and socially responsible....

BUt as I'm "deviating from God's Plan"... I guess I'll just go someplace where "people like me" can go without harrassment.

Although 'segregating' is probably the wrong word, putting all the 'adult' stuff together would actually be a benefit to everyone, whether you are for it or against it.

If you're against it.. then you are clear before you go there what it is, simply by nature of its regional status, so you can't really be offended by stuff that you knew would be there anyway.

If you're for it... then it keeps out people who are against that kind of thing.

'XXX' is a big draw to people for reasons I fail to understand; so some of the 'smaller' places that offer adult services may even benefit from this - especially if the sim itself is set up with streets and suchlike so that you can just walk down a street from bar to club to strip joint, if that's the kind of thing that tickles your fancy.

Lewis

Well, you can't sell something without uploading it first.

But then we get into all sorts of arguments that have been rehearsed on other adult sites recently. Consider a picture of a handsome young man tied up, nude, and getting shot full of arrows. Violent gay* porn! Now add a title: "Martyrdom of St Sebastian". Work of religious art!

I can't see LL really wanting to open that can of worms. My guess is they're covering their backs.

* Actually, not necessarily gay, depending on the viewer

My instruction manual is written in deoxyribonucleic acid.

And mainly involves instructions about eating, running away from things that are larger than I am, and having lots of sex.

Please don't bring your hateful sick perverted version of a god into this. If you want to live by your gods plan ... fine... but don't force your hate or your god into others lives and bedrooms, or be prepared for others to do the same to you.

BTW.. in the bilble .... poligamy was accepted. so your argument for one man/woman is based on only parts of the bible you want to see. Besides.. Eve was Adams SECOND wife !!

Lewis-

Why not do the opposite?

Set aside a PG only continent. People that don't want to share boundaries with M spaces can retreat there and live out their SecondLives free from anything that might blister their fragile eyeballs.

What you suggest does NOT require policy changes from LL, it merely requires a few enterprising land barons to set up covenants and land available to people that wish to play more puritanly.

And I must say... I disagree with you often, as is clearly evidenced with my posts, but I think this is the first time you've outright offended me. Take your judgemental religious attitude to your PGhetto and build a wall around it so it doesn't leak out and offend OUR fragile eyeballs. Please.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing to me?



I'm not sure where you get Eve as Adam's second wife from... and although polygamy may have been 'accepted practice' by some in Biblical times, it certainly wasn't part of God's plan.

But I can see people are clearly upset by the challenges, so if you wish to discuss any of these issues my PM box is open.

Lewis

I wouldn't want to rent land from someone, and I can't afford a sim of my own or the up front fees.

I'm not sure where you get the 'play puritanically' idea from; it's certainly not what I've advocated, and not where I see SL heading. However, it can be difficult not to walk into stuff that you may find offensive by accident; not everything is indicated properly as 'adult content'.

As I've said before, what someone does behind closed doors in their own home (or skybox) is their own business. However, when it's done in an open area, that is publicly accessible to all, then it becomes everyone's business. I'm quite sure that you've come across stuff that you have found distasteful too.

Lewis