Important! Adult shops, clubs and services in SL

Since the TOS now says:



...we need to demand a new feature, to be legally secured. We have to be able to display a disclaimer before anyone enters a mature sim. Two configureable buttons, basically "Yes, I agree and I am of legal age to view adult content" and "No, please take me out of here", the latter teleporting the resident back to their home location. A full screen disclaimer page, to prevent minors or easily offended people from being exposed to anything within mature sims.

Let's not give LL any reason to clean the grid in order to get SL a teen rating (which is planned, according to Cory's statement "In the future, if we open Second Life to people 13–18, we would make sure our design would allow for a Teen rating, equivalent to The Sims Online" in an interview at http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_secondlife_interview.html).

I suggest that we all restrict the access to our premises to residents with the account status "payment info used", until this new feature is implemented. Of course that isn't enough, since everyone can still steer their camera into a protected mainland area, but it should be sufficient to not give LL any excuse for a purge.

It's not our fault that we don't have impenetrable walls or working access restrictions. That's a design flaw. Currently we can't do more than restricting the access to users that can be reasonably assumed to be of adult age - I know that's arguable, but that's not the point since adult websites use credit cards for age verification too. There is no other reasonable form of verification than by credit card or other payment systems usually restricted to adults, like paypal.

Let's place the responsibility back in the hands of LL, where it belongs, and force unverified users to either verify their account or get their teenage a** out of mature regions. If the "online now" and "...last 60 days" statistics go down due to disgruntled teens who aren't able to cyber anymore, it's even better to make our point.

This is not a feature suggestion, but a question to residents: what do you think? Is a disclaimer feature enough, or do we need more? What other changes can we (adult role players) demand, as the largest group of residents?

[...]

We need an extra level of land ownership: XXX.

PG - remains as is.
M - Mature rated, but no sexual content.
XXX - sexual content - strip clubs, etc

I have land in a M sim but I chose it because of its location, not because of its rating. There is nothing on my land that warrants the current rating of "M", and there never will be as adult content in SL just doesn't interest me.

Personally I think the 'adult content' in SL is in fact rather immature, and never quite understand why, when people are given all the possibilities that SL offers they simply resort to sex.

Lewis

Thanks for posting the accurate text, Winter I rather went with a good "translation" I read. It comes down to: In case of a lawsuit, whose head is going to roll? That's not LL's head anymore.

That's quite simple. Humans are sexual creatures. Biologically it's the most important part of our lifes (besides breathing, drinking and eating). Psychologically, it's one of the most important forms of social interaction. SL is a place to live one's dreams, and it's inevitable that those dreams also contain sexual interaction (in most cases). This is even more true if one, for some reason, lacks this important part of human existence in the so-called "Real Life". You'd be astonished how many residents are disabled or handicapped, or have the wrong RL gender, or aren't able to live their fetishes in their social environment, or are simply shy and/or lack physical attractivity by the standards of our society.

I can't see anything immature in that. Quite the opposite, a healthy sexual interest is the first sign of physical maturity, and the exact knowledge of one's own sexual preferences is a big step towards mental maturity.

A kid that's deliberately snuck onto the main grid is not going to give a toss about any age dialogues or XXX areas (heck, those would probably attract them). While they can fake their details you simply can't stop them.

Personally, while I don't have much interest beyond the sociological in most instances of "mature content" in Second Life, in I'd like to be able to discuss, say, the sexual subtexts of Antony and Cleopatra, or the sexual politics inherent in birth control legislation, without fear of being sat on. You know, adult subject matter, even if they are topics that I was introduced to before reaching the age of sixteen.

Of course in my case it doesn't really matter if someone calls the FBI on me, as I don't live in the United States. But I would assume that my Colonial cousins would wish the same.

If TSO can give the land owners the absolute power to limit who has access to their homes (you can't get close enough to the house to see what's going on until you land >> ON << the parcel) and the owners choose to NOT restrict anyone, that's a totally different issue than LL/SL deciding to make land owners liable for what a minor might see when maingrid land owners have absolutely no ability to restrict viewing.

If they are going to be realistic about this, then they need to revise the land grading and impliment some sort of zoning. If LL won't do a realistic verification of age, name or even email address, how are land owners supposed to verify anything?

Truly, I doubt this could hold up in court if a parent wanted to push the issue and their minor lied to LL when giving a date of birth on registration. Allowing people onto the grid is LL's problem not other residents - we have absolutely no control over who they allow on the grid.

Come to think of it, we have no control over anything. As a friend recently noticed, SL has become a cesspool with regards to LL's concern for their paying residents. Eroding the value of premium accounts while making them liable for LL's screw-ups due to lack of verification on accounts is just another log of LL doody in the SL cesspool.

Perhaps... but I 'qualify' under several of your clauses above yet I don't feel any need to live that sort of second life. Maybe I'm just wierd then.

Lewis

A strong point was brought up about it not being the residents responsibility if the adequate prevention tools aren't available to us. Normally I'd agree with this stance, but in the case of minors being exposed to mature content, I can't in all conscience turn a blind eye. I've only been in SL a little while and I've already seen some pretty wicked stuff... stuff I wouldn't at any time feel comfortable letting any minor view. Ishtara's suggestion is not perfect, but it's a darn good one for what we have available to us.

Ok, GREAT idea, I support this one 100%. Lets get it into the Suggested features Forum with as Many Signitures as Possible. For Adult Residents, it would be only a Minor Hiccup in Transport, For Minors and their Parents, Fair Warning, AND for the Mature Sim Property owners, Sufficient, and legally supportable Protection from Prosecution or Liability.
This is EXACTLY what we Need. Brilliant Thinking Ishtara.

Angel.

Seconded, or is that thirded?

Actually According to Roberts Rules of Order, Ishtara is responsible for Making the Motion, I Seconded, Now we are at the Point where we ask All those in Favor to Signify by a Call of Aye, (Or raising of the Hands in case of a silent Ballot, But because we can't actually SEE you raising your hand, I think we shouls stick with Aye). We then Give those opposed a Chance to Cast a Nay Vote, and after that, Declare the Motion Passed or failed.

Don't ask me how i Remember all this stuff.

Angel.

This is a very good idea. LL has taken themselves out of the responsibility for Mature ares, fine, give us the tools to protect ourselves. Is there a voting topic yet, if so can someone post the link here?

As for LL trying to get a teen rating for SL? If this happens lots of members who participate in "mature" activities will leave...especially if it is their primary form of SL entertainment.

I admit I am not sure of the question but is it something like "has LL shifted age verification to owners of adult places?" If that is the question the answer is no. Are you going to require each visitor to an adult place to fly out to the owners real life residence with birth certificate in hand?

No, I think LL still accepts responsibility for age verification but they have said that they are not responsible if a minor views adult material in a mature sim. Because LL is not the one providing the adult material they will not be the ones sued by the parents of said minor, the provider of the material will. Hence the need for some type of disclaimer for those providing adult material in SL.

I wouldn't lose any sleep over this.

Although I oppose the use of this, it is possible to implement this "agree dialogue" and subsequent teleport home... with scripting tools already present in LSL.

An object can scan for an avatar entering a parcel. An object can trigger a "blue menu" with 2 buttons. Button A can in fact result in no further response, while button B can result in a "teleport home" condition. The script could also wait a predefined period (let's say 30 seconds - to comply with the TOS), and if no answer has been given, teleport the agent home again. The script can log the UUID of each user, and email that data out of world, to a php script which could create a logfile of the UUID's that have "certified" their age of majority status.. which the land owner can then keep on file, in the event of a future lawsuit.

I worry though about the many MANY MANY adult item retailers who "rent space" in malls, and clubs, and land they do not own. Since the teleport agent home tool is limited (I beleive) to objects owned by the land owner (or assigned group members).

Additionally, I would be concerned about this becomming another "anti-Copybot" problem, or like the "home security systems".. where people are being targetted by these devices nearly 100m away from the actual adult content.

I am NOT about to rush a script out to serve this need, and I would SEVERELY CAUTION anyone tempted to develop this script.. to do so in "Scripting Tips".. where the voices of many talented scripters and residents can be heard, helping to shape the product both functionally and ethically in terms of community standards (we don't need another spammer or no-warning "home security device".

Basically, this passage in the TOS is intended to insulate LL from culpability when the inevitable Child and Predator meet via SecondLife. For the end retailer.. I think a sign posted at the TP point, or a notecard thrower would be reasonably adequate for the time being. Frankly, I think a lot could be accomplished by simply including a notecard in your products.

If I were to request action from LL.. I would ask for a new function within LSL.

My request would be... a flag we could put on to the Buy action. that added a disclaimer question to the buy process.

llBuyWarning("By clicking yes below, you certify that you are 18 years of age or older, and that you are leagally able to purchase items of an adult or sexual nature.", "Yes", "No";

After that, the normal buy process would continue on a YES.. and would abort on a "no" with no money or product changing hands. I think something like this could already be done via LSL... but I'd like to see linden labs meet us halfway at least, and provide adult-product sellers (and venue providers) a simple, easy to use add-on to LSL, to make it easier to add this "click to continue" to buying adult products, access to "buy pass" areas... etc.

Existing "buy pass" systems could then be cloned and modified slightly to create an "access controlled" banline. where the user could (through this menu) interrogate anyone bumping the banline.. and "sell" a "pass" to them for free, once they agreed to the statement.

SOmething like this would also be of great use in combat sims, gorean areas, heavy roleplay areas, etc.. "agree to our terms and conditions, or you may not enter."

Lewis, the only other big reason why sex is so popular in SL is the fact it is the only thing we can really do without getting lagged to death. My ambition in SL was and continues to be aircraft design/building/scripting/texturing but alas, with all the current issues, I cannot even enjoy flying in the vehicle sims without having major border cross issues that force a relog, forget flying across the mainland as I used to be able to perform. Poseballs and the associated animations/poses are just something that many can just sit and do, many true cyber-sexers (is that even a word?) just have the poseballs for a slight visual as many of the ones I have met use Skype or other services to add a level of depth no animation can get. To call Adult content immature is just ignorance and immature in itself, live and let live. When SL was more enjoyable for vehicles, I had no problems hanging out and flying for fun and met a lot of friends who did the same. Sex in SL is just one facet of an extremely faceted diamond in the rough that SL is, though I complain about SL a lot, I do still see the diamond it can become. Besides, if I offer an aircraft that umm...."Adult Content" happens a mile up in flight, then perhaps be worried

I do agree an adult XXX rating is necessary or some other sort of indicator, but remember, the more you try to indicate the fact that it may be wrong for a minor to enter the area, the more than likely they will want to be there.

I love the idea of a disclaimer and subsequent acceptance/agreement for those entering mature areas. Brilliant idea.

What concerns me is the whole idea that ANYONE in SL is responsible for a minor viewing adult content. The responsibility lies with the guardians of these children. To pass the blame onto SL residents or anyone else is pathetic.

If Junior is watching late night porn on the pay-per-view, is the cable company at fault? No one is forcing this child to view it.

That was a rhetorical question and I'm stepping off of my soapbox now.

~Ari

As a perfectly normal, healthy, balanced 34 year old, I've come across quite a few things that I feel uncomfortable viewing, let alone a teen. Some of the furry porn, for example...

Lewis

The New (M).. where you can say the F word, but not perform the F word.

A distinction we *obviously* need in SecondLife.

No, Lewis, not weird at all. I, too, qualify under more than one of those headings and I feel no need to embrace the sexual side of SL. I find it rather sad that to many outsiders (or so it seems to me from reading forum posts, articles in the media; speaking to newbies in-world), SL is no more than a place to make money and indulge in sexual fantasies.

No. I personally couldn't care less how old my customers are. I'm over that point; if that was my worry, I would have closed my shop long ago. I just want them to click "Yes, all of the above is true for me" on a form of consent that would be viewed as sufficient in court.
I toyed with that idea a while ago and wrote a script to scan the area, send everyone a HUD menu, add them to an exception list after agreeing and urging them to leave the area otherwise (didn't actually now how to tp them out). It didn't work for several reasons:

- A sensor with a sufficient range on a short timer puts a lot of stress on a sim. I'm not willing to live with lag just to implement a needed feature on my own.
- A sensor only detects avatars, not agents (cameras). Someone could look around in my shop without ever getting the HUD disclaimer window.
- Those blue HUD windows all have an "Ignore" button. That alone makes them useless for my purpose. If someone can just ignore my disclaimer instead of agreeing or disagreeing, I'm not legally safe. Of course I could check which ID never replies (or clicks Ignore), but that leads to the next problem:
- How much time do I give new arrivals to read the disclaimer, before they're tp'ed out for not responding? The little blue window doesn't cover much of the screen. I could end up accidently banning a slow reader, while at the same time someone wanders around in my shop and views all displays/demo models for several minutes before he's kicked out for ignoring the disclaimer.
- Sensors don't have enough range to really work sim-wide. My whole sim is intended for adults only. If I add several scripted objects, they'll overlap and send messages to the same person, unless I add a complicated email exchange between them, adding even more lag.

A solution with a central teleport point is also unacceptable for me. I want each of my product-specific ads to take the interested customer right in front of the appropriate vendor. That's part of my customer service; the customer shouldn't stand in the vegetation, having to look for the shop entrance first.

I can't accept any handicap for my business just because I sell adult wares in a mature sim. Every customer who accepts my disclaimer, thereby proving in a legally sufficient way that he's of adult age, must have the usual easy shopping experience, even if he's on an unverified account.
All those small shops are rented in mature areas. That's yet another reason why we need a sim-wide disclaimer for every mature area. No matter how large the sensor range, a local disclaimer solution is insufficient due to the range of camera controls. I agree, if every shop protects itself with a scripted solution it ends in lag and chaos.
Child and Predator? There we go already. There are no predators or child molesters on the adult grid, because children aren't allowed to be on this grid. That's exactly why I'm worried - LL removed their promise of the grid being restricted to adults, and now every adult roleplayer can easily get into the "predator" corner without even knowing about the age of their supposedly adult partner.

These are all good ideas, but nothing really works but a sim-wide disclaimer (or TOS) that effectively blocks every chat and visual within the sim until the disclaimer is accepted. I can't have customers buy a pass miles away from the actual shop. My wares are out in the open, for everyone to test and play, so a disclaimer on purchasing doesn't work too. Even the vendor displays aren't intended for children's eyes. I need the same functionality used on the web, which has proven to be legally sufficient. A simple full-screen agreement page. If I get into any legal problems, I'd like to be able to point at any free adult website and point out that my form of age verification is technically the same. Any new or different system can be torn apart by a lawyer.

I also want this feature forced onto every mature sim. That's very important, otherwise shop X implements a disclaimer system and club Y doesn't. It needs only one lawsuit to give LL sufficient reason for a grid cleansing (call me paranoid, but by now I expect pretty much everything). The first to run into legal problems can easily ruin it for every adult roleplayer and every adult business in SL.