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Why is there not a "General Discussion" forum? |
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Aminom Marvin
Registered User
Join date: 31 Dec 2006
Posts: 520
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10-14-2007 17:15
I hope they fix the hair-up-the-butt problem before that happens. Blog comments are painful enough already.. For users who have avatars with a reasonable primcount, this doesn't happen often. It gets worse the more prim-heavy your avatar is, as there is more data to transfer from one sim to another, making glitches happen a lot easier. So, you have people with monstrous 1000+ prim avatars having this occur often, and then wondering why :V It is a form of justice in a way. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-14-2007 17:15
Almost everyone. A topic of discussion around the hangout of late has been whether or not a certain clique causes a chilling effect upon discussion through pile-on attacks. It has been my contention that such a phenomenon does in fact exist contrary to the protestations of members of that clique. Above, someone trolled and some people replied with discourse advancing commentary and others flamed back and others got congratulatory towards those engaged in flaming. Did I want to respond to the troll? Sure did: I had a witheringly clever reply which I decided not to post even though it was so damn clever. Upon reflection, I realized that it wouldn't advance the discussion but would instead turn it into a mud fight. If you believe in the principles advocated in most of this thread, I think it important to consider the net effect of your words on the discourse. First because it is the right thing to do, secondly, because if this proposal gets implemented I hope like hell it will end the pile-ons. A simple test question to ask yourself is "who will most benefit from this post I am about to submit?". If the answer is "me and my ego" you are implicitly saying that your ego is worth more than the attention of hundreds of readers and the detriment of the discourse. We have met the enemy and he is us. Why the heck should I censor my opinion just because someone else holds it? the aformentioned troll has over 8000 posts, she can take care of herself. |
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Raudf Fox
(ra-ow-th)
Join date: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 5,119
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10-14-2007 17:48
Why the heck should I censor my opinion just because someone else holds it? the aformentioned troll has over 8000 posts, she can take care of herself. It's not censoring. It's what my profs used to call constructive criticism. Meaning, say something nice and THEN come down on them like a ton of bricks. It's one thing to flame/troll, it's a work of art to do so while still moving the discussion along in a meaningful way  I make liberal use of the back button on my browser. It's saved many hours of time and frustration when dealing with the faceless masses who can't and won't understand logic and reason. Or a nice helping of insanity, whichever I'm in the mood for at the time! _____________________
DiamonX Studios, the place of the Victorian Times series of gowns and dresses - Located at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Fushida/224/176
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Winter Phoenix
Voyager of Experiences
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 683
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general discussion about a general discussion forum
10-14-2007 18:19
I always thought the snuffing of the 'general discussion' forum was all about silencing bad reviews. There were many big players buying islands, and many new residents flowing in around that time. My paranoid vibes lead me to believe LL didnt want any bad press whatsover raining on their parade. " FER CRIPES SAKE, DONT GO SAYING WE ARE LAGGY AND LOSE INVENTORY ITEMS, WE GOT PEOPLE FLOWING IN, WE ARE QUADRUPLING IN SIZE AT A RAPID RATE OF SPEED!! SEARS IS BUILDING A STOREFRONT, NISSAN HAS MOVED IN!! WE MUST ENSURE THAT OUR REPUTATION REMAINS FLAWLESS DURING THIS EXPANSION PERIOD!" I dont recall the boards being some unmanageable mess at any point. The reasons stated for the closings sounded smoke screeny to me.
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~GIVEN FREE REIGN THE SYSTEM WILL TELL YOU,
WHAT TO DO, WHEN AND HOW TO DO IT, WHAT YOU CAN READ, VIEW, OR LISTEN TO, WHAT YOU CAN SAY, WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH YOUR OWN BODY, AND SUCK ALL YOUR MONEY OUT OF YOUR POCKET WHILE IT DOES THIS! QUESTION AUTHORITY!~ W.P |
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Isablan Neva
Mystic
Join date: 27 Nov 2004
Posts: 2,907
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10-14-2007 19:05
I hope like hell it will end the pile-ons. Personally, I doubt you will see that happen. Consider the normal recipe for a pile-on: 1) obvious troll from someone who clearly had their post-toasties piddled on that morning or who is just generally a negative human being with a miserable life. 2) lots of people stiffle commentary because they decide to be "nice" and not tell the personal trolling where to get off. 3) eventually, someobody is annoyed enough by the trolling to let the author have it. 4) several of those people who deleted their comments and tried to take the high road decide to show a sense of support and encouragement for that person who said what a lot of other people were thinking. As long as there are people trolling a forum, there will always be someone who decides it is their day to go troll hunting. The only person you can control is yourself, trying to control others is much like trying to teach a pig to sing. _____________________
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/TheBotanicalGardens/207/30/420/ |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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10-14-2007 19:20
The only person you can control is yourself, trying to control others is much like trying to teach a pig to sing. *ahem* anyway. Ontopic: I think Mal's proposal is good, taking the day-to-day policing of the forums off of LL's plate makes it more likely that an official general subforum would be allowed. And fwiw, so SuzanneC had a bad post, lalala, I have lots, let's not label her as a troll forever. Her technical expertise makes many of her posts often very welcome to many here. _____________________
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 To contact forum folks, join the inworld group "The Forum Cartel". New residents with questions about SL more than welcome! We has parties! To contact forum scripters, join the inworld group "Scriptoratti" (thanks Void!). New scripter questions welcome! |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-14-2007 20:01
QFT. Altho, actually, they've had a thread doing that (many pigs singing) these last two days over on SLUniverse, it's quite fun. *ahem* anyway. Ontopic: I think Mal's proposal is good, taking the day-to-day policing of the forums off of LL's plate makes it more likely that an official general subforum would be allowed. And fwiw, so SuzanneC had a bad post, lalala, I have lots, let's not label her as a troll forever. Her technical expertise makes many of her posts often very welcome to many here. I wouldn't consider SuzanneC a troll. |
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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10-14-2007 20:10
Oh here's why .. /3/55/119906/1.html Assuming these rules still stand, perhaps we've inadvertently stumbled across a solution for the Forum Cartel which doesn't rely upon an external third-party forum? You've got the group. You've got the required number of members. Now write to Torley and demand that group forum. You can talk about panties and pies. SuezanneC can talk about HiPiHi and FedEx boxes. Everybody's happy.  The message was clear in my unpopular thread suggestiong an additional Forum Cartel forum: No one wants to move. They want to stay in Resident Answers, even if it means stretching the rules once in a while to include general topics or P words. _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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10-14-2007 20:10
The reason the general forum was removed was because a lot of people who possessed logic spoke their minds and linden lab didn't want free thinkers.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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10-14-2007 22:53
"So newbies wind up here asking questions, or just quietly reading and learning. Oldies argue, bounce ideas, and help those newbies."
Fresh off the boat new users don't get to come here - not until they are payment info verified. Fresh off the boat new users who want help in a forum have to use a third party forum. ========= Creation of new group forums has been closed a long time now. ========= I got my self-named group forum created in order to see for myself what the forum moderation software was like. After creating it I tried at various times to start some threads for people to join in for fun, which worked a tiny bit. The forum moderation software, by the way, sucks. ========= The forums used to have a number of people that appeared to take great delight in being hateful, insulting, snide, rude, mean, condescending, and many other forms of misbehavior possible through text. They would try to make other users look stupid, and would attempt to upset people whose posts gave the impression of the poster being emotionally disturbed and not really in need of being being singled out for torment. Some folks would go on Linden hating tirades of great intensity post after post after post, obviously not something a company wants potential customers to see, not solely because they don't want to be made to look bad, but because you don't really want potential customers to get the impression that the other customers are a bunch of hateful crazy people who lack the brains to quit an activity they don't enjoy . At one point there was an attempt to provide a place for people to be hateful in, the Rants and Raves forum, or some such similar name. This idea didn't work out; people just took their hateful, abusive output to a whole new level of intensity, and didn't confine it to the designated hateful area. The forums currently are quite courteous compared to the forums a few years ago. =========== I have suggested in the past a separate mature forum, basically so people could cuss, and private group forums that only members could see and post in, which would be useful both for socializing and conducting business in. The group forums as they were when they could still be created were impaired by the moderator's lack of ability to ban troublemakers - the group forum moderators could delete posts, but not ban people. So one troublemaker could effectively crippple the discussion. The hard to find location of the group forums also contributed to their lack of use. =========== The new non-Linden entry points on the web associated with the new user operated orientation islands mean that people can be given the chance to join in or just plain be entered in third party forums at the time they first join Second Life. =========== These separate points don't add up to a conclusion or a call to action of any sort. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
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10-15-2007 03:21
This is almost identical to my first post, with the suggestions of others added. If you've read the thread to here, you can safely ignore this post; if you want to see the addenda, they are all in #2 paragraph 2. A proposal to un-mire the forums with less work for everyone yielding a higher level of discourse, greater signal to noise density, and more useful information for all. 1. Get more resmods - there is no shortage of applicants, as well demonstrated in the "so you want to be a resmod?" thread. 2. Grant the resmods unilateral, real power - skip the tedious Linden review, they haven't the bandwidth for it. If a resmod deigns a thread or post or poster to be problematic allow them to act on the post (edit/delete/lock) or poster (suspend/ban). This is the part that people will likely find hardest to swallow. I disagree with Strife's actions often, but actually consider him well reasoned, thoughtful and principled. I expect other resmods would bring their own point of view to the matter, which I may or may not agree with. Any checks and balances for a "bad" resmod, should be decided amongst the resmods who are best informed on such jugements. If the bureaucracy is the problem, remove the bureaucracy. Banning decisions should have the concurrence of two resmods, but I expect they'd want that for their own sake anyway. Of course, Linden Lab - being owner of the forum - would always have the power of oversight at any level, but their involvement would be gated by their own desires and should not be required in normal operation. Linden Lab could be the arbiter of inter-resmod disputes, but I think the selection of a "chief" resmod - by LL or the resmods - would more efficiently serve the role. 3. Transparent, unappealable justice - we have never known what is acceptable and what is not partly because LL has never wanted to draw a bright line, partly because we never get to see what is punishable and what is not. How do you best train your posters in the mores of the forum? Show them what is an infraction and what the punishment is. This is counter to LL's policies of "confidentiality" but we're all avatars anyway with no privacy rights at all. I would love to see "Malachi Petunia suspended for three days for flaming Strife Onizuka" as the amount of guidance to the perpetrator and the community would be astounding. These decisions need to be unappealable or every decision would get mired in faux legalese. Questioning such judgements would be grounds for immediate suspension. A pattern of repeat suspension should result in a banning. It is no accident that the framers of the US constitution decided to make justice an open system, for it both increases the sense that justice is being done and guides the population toward rule abiding. Along with this justice should be the decoupling of forum bans with game bans as there appears to be no correlation at all between conduct in the two realms. If you want to police the forums, police the forums. I believe the original intent was that forum suspension wasn't "toothy" enough punishment. If you add back in the component of social shame that LL stripped out of forum justice, it will more than compensate; it is also more just. 4. Reopen general and off-topic - the community needs these, closing them just pushed the grievances out into the blog. Note that the blog is RSS syndicated to anyone while the forums are closed to all but paying customers. Re-instating these areas could take considerable ill-will out of the blog (why LL doesn't moderate the blog comments for at least topicality puzzles me). Do these grant unprecedented power to the resmod? Sure. Why should we allow this at all? Because we are participating in a dialog on someone else's dime and we have absolutely no expectation of "free expression". If you want to participate in the dialog, you have to conform to the social norms. Okay, so why don't we all move to another site? Because these forums do provide a useful function that no other venue can. Will picking and choosing parts of this proposal as desired work? I don't think so, the components are too interdependent to yield a working system if one of the pillars is removed. Would this be a Good Thing in the final analysis? I think so, but don't know for certain; I do know that it is a rather inexpensive test. Will it raise forums.secondlife.com into something better appreciated and respected by all? I fervently believe so. 1) Agreement 2) Agreement 3) I don't mind appeals but I think the punishment should have the possibility of increasing if they loose the appeal; thats kinda how it works now, assuming the appeal is heard. With increased power some decoupling would need to happen; as long as these are the official forums I don't think a full decoupling is a good idea. I would suggest that the ResMods do not have the ability to ban/suspend anyone from in-world. To have an inworld suspension/ban happen they would have to submit the person for Linden Review at which point LR would couple any future suspensions/bans. I am otherwise in agreement. 2 & 3) The problem with forum bans & suspensions is that while they do discourage other people from following in the same footsteps they do nothing to curtail someone who is that far gone. At the point where bans & suspensions are used the person is already in the mindset "I don't give a damn about the forums". You really need a punishment that annoys the heck out of them. In the dedicated trolling groups, getting banned from the forums is a right of passage. There is a certain part of the community who have been in SL so long when things aren't going their way, they feel entitled to make a stink on the forums; a coupled suspension does a good job of squashing that which the forum suspension just doesn't do. 4) You are correct about the blog, it all operates on the sausage/balloon principal, you squeeze on part, another part bulges. When you are designing a social system, the trick is to produce a strong enough casing that when squeezed the sausage doesn't burst; this is done by providing checks & balances and backup systems (right now, the RA is the backup systems for all the shit that goes wrong; sometimes I wish I could find the 'flush' lever). I would need a lot more resmods to be able to handle a reopening of the closed forums, and we would need an ongoing recruiting process. Moderating the forums sucks the soul out of you, there is no protection against it; having transparency sucks the soul out faster. Running the discussion forums would require a lot of effort and manpower. The problem is that people like to bash each other, SL and LL. To actually solve the underlying problems someone needs to ask "What is really going wrong? What can be done? How could it be made to go right?". Problem is, while people are bashing, the questions aren't being asked or answered. Maybe the solution is to have an Off-Topic forum that gets used as a General Discussion forum. That way any non-productive threads about SL et al, can be locked for being too on-topic for off-topic, of course productive threads could be ignored since there wouldn't be a General Discussion forum to house them. The uneven application of the off-topic rule seems to be an inequity people are willing to live with as opposed to threads locked for lack of productive content. It's a lie people see through and gives them something to complain about but at the same time provides a way for the community see that the rules are being enforced for the good of the community and not for the ease of the moderators. (response to later posts by other authors) Censorship: Always a tricky subject. Should you be self censoring? A prickly question indeed. Lets frame it in a different way. Would you say anything that came to mind at a job interview? If you were presented at the pearly gates, would you curse the gate keeper aloud before anything was said? My point is, there are social norms that we are all expected to observe and if we don't things can get ugly. The forums are no different, the problem with the forums is that people don't agree on what the social norms should be. We all agree that there should be social norms (even anarchism has social norms), we don't agree what they should be but we agree they should be followed. How you describe when you are forced to follow them is up to you but do remember we have a rule about reposting and recourse. I'm going to move this to the ResMod forum. _____________________
Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river. - Cyril Connolly Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence. - James Nachtwey |
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Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
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10-15-2007 03:33
I got my self-named group forum created in order to see for myself what the forum moderation software was like. After creating it I tried at various times to start some threads for people to join in for fun, which worked a tiny bit. The forum moderation software, by the way, sucks. The forums used to have a number of people that appeared to take great delight in being hateful, insulting, snide, rude, mean, condescending, and many other forms of misbehavior possible through text. If the distinctive purpose of these forums is to increase customer retention, then I suggest you stop using them as a support channel for competing products immediately because that's of far greater concern than a few people indulging in pie and panties humour. You're hardly in a position to turn your nose up at this kind of general banter either when you're using your own privledged little corner to discuss things like FedEx furniture, the uselessness of RealPlayer, and your apparent contempt for the Forum Cartel. _____________________
It's only a forum, no one dies.
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Amaranthim Talon
Voyager, Seeker, Curious
Join date: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 12,032
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10-15-2007 05:40
Going back to page five , I think... I see that there are obvious "friend-circles" I hesitate to call them cliques because of the connotations -being still relatively new, I can say- I have not felt attacked or jumped upon and everyone that has answered my questions has been most helpful. There was one slight off-putting remark in a Gor related thread, but it blew over and did not become a flame-fest- differences are welcome- it is how we grow.
That is the type of thing that a General Discussion forum would encourage. Don't really care what it is called - leave it here, for all that it matters to me. I am loath to have to label the thing - I say leave well enough alone. _____________________
"Yield to temptation. It may not pass your way again. "
Robert A. Heinlein  http://talonfaire.blogspot.com/ Visit Talon Faire Main: http://slurl.com/secondlife/Misto%20Presto/216/21/155- Main Store XStreets: http://tinyurl.com/6r7ayn |
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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The Great Dictator
10-15-2007 06:04
I would need a lot more resmods to be able to handle a reopening of the closed forums, and we would need an ongoing recruiting process. Moderating the forums sucks the soul out of you, there is no protection against it; having transparency sucks the soul out faster. You've got qualified applicants knocking down the door, but you don't want to use them. Do you think that being chief resmod would be too hard? I know you aren't being paid for an odious job, but the abject contempt demonstrated for your "flock" in your post suggests that you have been too desicated by your volunteer activities to properly discharge your duties. Interestingly, I've seen this form of contempt demonstrated here often before by the Lindens. Have you flown so close to the Lab that your wax wings have melted and twisted to the degree that you think the status quo good? You don't want to apply or even attempt to apply the principles proposed? I essentially offered you forum godship in order to help "flush" the "shit" that you say is in abundance here and you declined. You don't want transparent justice but do want appeals, and yet think it is we who make your job harder? It is clear why you don't mind appeals, because they never, ever matter. Your decisions are never reversed. Score another point for unchecked power and solitary control. I find it especially telling that you essentially had your response ready before you read the reformation proposal. You are acting like the most vulgar of bureaucrats who complains about his public service while simultaneously planing to retain it in perpetuity. Your disdainful shrug of the shoulders doesn't warrant any further commentary. Enjoy your tinpot dictatorship, or better still, abdicate your position assuming you have some soul left. You aren't doing yourself or the community any good. |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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10-15-2007 06:09
Of course there are going to be social circles. people are going to congregate based upon common interests. It happens in The Cartel. Sometimes a gathering will be a general one where everyone is just dancing and bs'ing, or engaging in private conversattions. Sometimes the open chat gets specific. We have a "Builders group" who like to talk about mega prims, and temp rezzers and such. Sometimes the talk turns to various tech topics. This is usually when I run away. Sometimes, yes, the talk is of pie, panties, and penguins. That happens in world, and it will happen here. can we be more conscious of it here, and cut down on it? Yes. can we eliminate it? probably not. And do we want to,anyway? Do we want this palce to be a dry, humorless, place that would make a Law Library look like Mardi Gras?
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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10-15-2007 06:26
I'm going to move this to the ResMod forum. One thing that might need more discussion is the very special bit of "transparency" in which forum disciplinary actions are made public. Granted, this will have no effect on the "lost cause" perpetrator, and maybe act as only a slight deterrence for those of us who are driven to the occasional "crime passionale," but its intent is to educate everybody about the boundaries and consequences. So, I think it's a good idea--but it would be a departure from the "no names" policy regarding in-world discipline. I think that's fine, and folks should know it's part of responsible forum use that an infraction will be made public. The "sausage theory" is [BAD_PUN]food for thought[/BAD_PUN], especially for those of us--confessed Pollyannas--who've never moderated a forum. If rules are established and enforced to make an "Off-Topic" or other forum marginally civil, then it won't take much pressure off the blog comments. And it might not anyway, even if that forum were a free-for-all, because there's no illusion that Lindens read the forums, whereas there's now compelling evidence that they read blog comments. I now think that the only way this could work is if the blog comments were to be moderated--and known to be moderated--more strictly than some forum that is known to get some measure of Linden attention. And then what would be accomplished by moving the rants from the blog to the forum? Well, the blog is *awfully* public. But I guess I see that such a move would be no panacea, and I've no clear idea what the moderation criteria should really be for such a forum. Still, I'm embarrassed every time I read the blog comments now; it really seems currently to make most public a sample of laundry selected for maximum dirtiness. That can't be the best arrangement. |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-15-2007 06:31
I essentially offered you forum godship in order to help "flush" the "shit" that you say is in abundance here and you declined. Whoa - You *proposed* forum godship perhaps, if that what it is. You aren't in the position to *offer* godship. I bring this up because a couple others in this thread have replied similarily, like somehow your proposal had weight beyond any merit as an idea. Unless its Malachi Linden now? |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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10-15-2007 06:32
For what it's worth, it seems to me that self moderration already is creeping in. Looka at the RA activity over the weekend, with the exception of the thread that was locked, it's been one of the most On Topic and inoffensive weekends I've seen. Perfect? No. but humans aren't perfect.
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Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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10-15-2007 07:16
Still, I'm embarrassed every time I read the blog comments now; it really seems currently to make most public a sample of laundry selected for maximum dirtiness. That can't be the best arrangement. We value free expression. However, stuff that's off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment. I do have to disagree with the interpretation that the "modest proposal" is being seriously entertained. Superficially, Strife appears to agree at first and then later refutes all of the substance of proposal. Then, bafflingly writes: What is really going wrong? What can be done? How could it be made to go right?. Problem is, while people are bashing, the questions aren't being asked or answered. If anyone should be embarrassed by insufficient moderation, it should be the Lindens and Strife. I noticed that there are eight non-Linden resmods of Resident answers, all of them have departed except Strife. If I were the last man standing in the middle of a field of people I disdained, I'd probably question why I was still there. |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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10-15-2007 07:22
I think an actual face-to-face discussion is really called for here; I too don't read Strife's response so negatively, Mal. It strikes me as part of an ongoing thought process, not as shutting a door.
On the other hand, I am puzzled as to why there has been no action on anointing some new resmods, and now I am at a loss as to next steps to nail things down and go forward with this proposal. Strife, would you be willing to attend an inworld meeting? If so, can you give us some times that would be good for you? _____________________
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To contact forum folks, join the inworld group "The Forum Cartel". New residents with questions about SL more than welcome! We has parties! To contact forum scripters, join the inworld group "Scriptoratti" (thanks Void!). New scripter questions welcome! |
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Walker Moore
Fоrum Unregular
Join date: 14 May 2006
Posts: 1,458
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10-15-2007 07:39
The message was clear in my unpopular thread suggestiong an additional Forum Cartel forum: No one wants to move. They want to stay in Resident Answers, even if it means stretching the rules once in a while to include general topics or P words. I just figured staying at the official forums was better than moving to other forums, given the reason for the group's existence (ie. this forum). Anyway, I must confess that I was only half-serious. If it would be possible, great .. but I really wanted to draw attention to the double-standard of Suezanne's post. People in alpha houses shouldn't throw megaprims. It's as simple as that. _____________________
It's only a forum, no one dies.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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10-15-2007 07:56
On the other hand, I am puzzled as to why there has been no action on anointing some new resmods, and now I am at a loss as to next steps to nail things down and go forward with this proposal. |
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Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,819
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10-15-2007 08:38
Having heard horror stories of the General Topics forum, RIP, I thought I'd dig into the forums Archive and sample some of the atrocities first-hand. (First I had to change an Option in the User CP to let me see ancient threads.) But I wasn't very successful in finding the flame-fests I'd expected. It's not that I don't think they're there, it's that I don't know how to hunt for them. So if anybody remembers any good "bad examples," I'd appreciate a pointer or two. Bummer - this thread evolved over the weekend, so I wasn't able to contribute. First off, its *really* difficult to use the search feature to find some of the old threads people are referring to. Unless you were an active part of things back then, its like finding a needle in a haystack. However, searching for closed threads with the phrase "Personal Attacks" spoken by Jeska Linden or Pathfinder Linden is a good start Here's some samples, however: ************************* /108/6a/47247/1.html This is a thread where Cristanio Midnight attempts to give everyone positive reinforcement, and a reality check. We'd all just been through a forum troll-week of hell, and even back then - the status of the General forums appeared in jeoprady. Ironically, this thread itself was closed for personal attacks ************************** /120/8c/49822/1.html The thread to discuss the infamous '911 Build' created by W-Hat. 26 pages of mind-numbing fun, devolution into personal attacks by page 3. *************************** /120/6c/53577/1.html 20 Pages of drama that begins on page one. Favortisim, FIC, and Forums.... all here neatly wrapped in a mud-covered package. **************************** /108/6b/66546/1.html Ahh, the beginning of the end. What's important about this thread is not the topic, but how the various players in the thread interact with one another. Guiness records for mutual disrespect are set here ***************************** There are many, many more. They've just been dead & buried for a long time. I'd post more, but that's sorta like saying 'Beetlejuice' 3 times _____________________
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Raymond Figtree
Gone, avi, gone
Join date: 17 May 2006
Posts: 6,256
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10-15-2007 08:41
Moderating the forums sucks the soul out of you, there is no protection against it; having transparency sucks the soul out faster. _____________________
Read or listen to some Eckhart Tolle. You won't regret it.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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10-15-2007 09:05
I do have to disagree with the interpretation that the "modest proposal" is being seriously entertained. Superficially, Strife appears to agree at first and then later refutes all of the substance of proposal. Whoa - seriously - get over yourself. Your proposal was a list of ideas for improving the forums. Its not a business plan. Its not a mandate endorsed by the electorate. Strife read it and had some ideas contrary to yours, thats all. Then, bafflingly writes:I thought we'd asked and answered those questions; it just wasn't the answers that Strife wanted. There was no indication that Strife intended to *do* anything. I'm sorry that people - myself included - wasted their time and thought for such vapid effect. Again theres no law that says Strife has to agree with anyone. How does a proposal get labeled "Modest" if such a high importance is placed on its supposed infallibility. Through the forest of Strife's self-contradictory reply it seems pretty clear that Walker's post #16 was essentially correct, Strife likes to be arbitrary and presented a manifesto for remaining so. Why? Because it is the most effective way to operate a tyranny. Its a bit extreme to refer to the moderation on a message board as a tyranny. |
