What is the point of the Land Flood? what about us?

Ummm huh ?

Stew. Here's the simple math for you, since it seems to be a problem for you to understand their thinking:

Higher land cost = less people owning land = less tier revenue.

Lower land cost = more people owning land = more tier revenue.

Now here's where you figure into the equation:

Stew = bought high priced land = cant sell it for what he paid = poor planning.

poor planning = gee, should have waited like everyone was saying = too bad for you.

Got it ?
Now go get some milk, and go to bed.

I said nothing about land barons although they are part of the reason why the situation is as it is. They are why you have a piece of land that might lose a few L/m2 in value. And you need to go do some math. 64 people holding 1 sim is far better than 1 holding it because LL makes hella more per m2 at lower levels than at higher in tier alone, PLUS the additional membership fees (especially if they pay the monthly rate). WAKE UP. 295/mo versus 1280/month? That is a no-brainer!

LL doesn't make a dime more per parcel by the land being at 16L/m2 than they do at 7L/m2. But they make more when land is at 7L/m2 because more people are buying it! BOTTOM LINE. And I don't know squat about you, but you definitely don't know jack about me - I own land, I am not a baron, I have a measly 3344m2 that I bought at auction for 13.51L/m2 on "Black Thursday" - turns out it was a good price after all! I run a business on my land, and live on it too. I am a prime example of the kind of person LL wants to keep - I feed this economy, it feeds me, I pay LL tier and membership and the world is a shinier happier place! If the land price goes down to 10L/m2... that's too damn bad for me if I want to sell, but that is the nature of the game. Boo-effin-hooo!!! There are always going to be some periods of feast or famine. There will be another famine if you are patient, or you can sell now and buy low later!
This ain't RL. The land doesn't want to increase - it's virtually infinite, not a scarce, limited commodity. The land wants to decrease because LL is putting out more to meet the demand of the rising population. The only people wanting to increase are sellers and resellers! If the population increases and there is no supply, you get disgruntled people who will crash the market - either by leaving or holding out until the thing comes down because the price passed the point where a critical mass would pay. These things move in cycles. Wait your turn.

Alot of talk about land being too high priced, or was... is there a actual price here everyone is in agreement on, or are people all have a difernt price in mind?

Fact is, what LL is doing seems on the surface to be silly and self destructive, i dont buy for a minute that more land owners = more tier fee's, your talking small time compared to what LL is actually doing.

Have to remember LL now has money and they are setting themselves up to multiply that a 10fold. the influx of large corporations coming in to SL grows more every onth, just like the population boom from November to....well now. Businesses are starting to take notice and come in, when the big corporations spend money on land, they are going to protect thier investment legally, SL wont be able to "influence" the market as much, they need to have as much land as possible when that time comes, then they will level off to a growth rate that matches premiums member populations, and the land market will stablize and the value will grow steadily.

Looking at the obvious is almost never the correct answer, if something seems like its wrong, its not because a bunch of monkeys are in the office making decisions. its because decisions are being made that arent comprehendable by most us monkeys on the lower levels. Of Course i could be totally wrong, which im sure peopel will post my err, but non the less, if things dont look right, its probably becuase you cant se the whole picture

I'm confused as to how this is self-destructive. LL takes in more tier and removes the barrier to increasing the most important number that counts - premium membership. In fact it is a win win for Linden from both a basic mathematical standpoint your conspiracy theory standpoint, and also for the player base if more people can hold land.

Yes i undertstand this, why is this all geared towards makin the Lindens More money? and then hurting people who have already bought land? So since when have you been telling people to wait?

Why do u keeo telling me that i made a mistake, that is obviouse....... Please does anyone else what to say it? Yes i made a big mistake to buy land because i did not know that LL would decide to to start messing with it...... Thanks for the math lesson..... Really good of ya to repeat what is being said for the last 20 posts.......

I guess the wanted result out of it is for everyone to own twice as much land at the same price, so we can have more prims and spread out the population across more sims, rather than the crammed concrete prim jungle many have become.

There is plenty of land available, u just "should" be willing to pay for it.... Again , its all about LL makin lots of money and the..... come on.... this tier story that u keep referrin to and LL is gaining etc etc.... Where is the rest gaining? oh sorry they going to own piece of land maybe, like they could any time they were willing to pay for it....... it is not generating land for the masses to use , it is flooding the market with land eventually people will battle to sell land all together.......

Do u work for LL, are u benifiting directly from the tier fees? I dont think so, so why do u keep pushing it on everyone...... Like i say we alll understand this point. againt who gives them the right to flood the market to reduce prices..... again if they wanted to prevent land from being so high why dont they put a max on the selling price?

Is that not a fair solution? There is MORE than ebough land for everyone at the moment........

this is a very fair statement and i agree with you. this is a good reason to spread the land. and land spread is good, and i can undertsand why they need the tier, so they can pay for the servers.... But what is done is done as far as price is concerned they should not do what they are doing to reduce the price of land... rather cap it, otherwise this will keep happening..

"LAND" in SL actually is a SERVER PC, running somewhere in California, I think.

To purchase and setup a Server, you need money ... this is covered by the initial auction price of the land. And then a server needs current, it needs to be maintained ... this is covered by the monthly tier fee.

So basically, if you "own" land, you actually have rented a part of a server system.

And now think what a server costs in reality, and then think of the BIG PROFIT Linden Labs makes everytime they sell a sim for 3,000 USD or more !!

Linden Lab has no interest in land prices. Linden Lab is only interested in creating NEW land, this is the only way they can make money themselves.

The BIG WINNER of Second Life is ... LINDEN LAB !

Gorden Flossberg

Its their game, they have the right to do what they want with it. And if we don't like what they do, we have the right to get out.



They are a commercial company, it's their job to make money. For all the talk of creating the metaverse, at the end of the day either SL makes money for its owners (whether that's LL or whoever eventually buys them out) or it will cease to exist. Whether they really need the money right now, I don't know, but it is perfectly reasonable for them to make commercial decisions that they think will increase their profitability.

From your earlier posts I'm in a similar situation to you. I bought land when it was at L$14-15 per sq.m. If the average price levels off at L$10-12, or even lower, I will lose money when I sell it. So what, I knew land prices were volatile, I knew I could lose money, I also knew I could make money. By the time I sell it my tier will have probably added up to more than the cost of the land in the first place, in any case. I didn't buy as an investment (and from your posts I don't think you did either), I bought land to play on. I'm having a great time with my land, and the tier and any losses when I sell it are the price I pay for that entertainment. Personally I think the fun I'm having is worth the cost.

Volitile is fine but influencing the prices is differant story cause then it is not only volitile but also influenced continuously on what LL decides, like u say, it is there choice to do as they please, but is it right when it will intentially lose poeple money? No
Im not so forgiving.

The land price drop benefits me because I want to buy more land. Not just sell! Not to flip! But I am not willing to pay the price that many of these people offer for land right now. And it benefits a lot of other people who don't have land, but would like some. But you can't see beyond what YOU want. You, you, you.

I benefit if they hire someone competent to code and offer customer service. We all benefit. I don't want LL to bankrupt, do you? Or to offer crappier service as population grows? If 50 extra people paying membership and tier will pay for another Linden to actually show up and help someone, well bollocks, have at it LL!!

You don't want them to put a cap on the selling price, because it would hurt you even more. Their ideal land price is a lot lower than your purchase price.

I would love a land price cap because at least if i buy land i know that tomorrow it wont be worth half the price...... my problem is what about the future why should i buy more land?

They will not go bankrupt, i dont think they would work the prices out, so that they would make a loss, do you?

Right now yes it is about me and about the people who will make a loss on land they purchased..... There are better ways to go about bringing this spread of land, and takin away first land, .... Well forgive me here but that is taking land away from the Critical masses, is it not?

LL are not trying to drive the price down because they want people to lose money. They are driving prices down because they want more people to own land, which they think in the long run will benefit LL and probably the rest of us. The fact that people like you and me who already own land will lose money may be an inevitable side-effect of their policy but it is not the aim of the policy. It is nonsense to suggest they are "intentionally" losing us money.

They presumably think that the resentment that people like us will feel is worth the benefits they think they will gain from more people owning land.

The price rises happened largely because LL virtually stopped creating mainland. The land market will inevitably be largely dependent on LL's decisions because they hold an absolute monopoly on the production of land, and can also influence prices in other ways. What do you think it would do to the price of land if they suddenly decided to double tier fees? Or to halve them?

they should not touch the price of the tier or try and influence the inland land sales price.... They should simply cap the prices...yes a bunch of us will be upset for a few days, this i can handle but i dont know what they will do tomorrow, they gonna release a new contintent again to further drive the prices down..... in a months time, in a years time? should i rather not buy land in that case? or should i buy land knowing i will be losing money on it? or perhaps they should warn us that they are going to do that, not a week or 2 before but like give us a planning of what they will release and when.

Good and well to pay for the fun of SL, but that is why we are paying members....land is supposed to be an added value....

Sorry about the intentially , u are right but is is the result of the fact that they are intentinally flooding the market to reduce the price of land, result people who have paid lose money....so now who knows, maybe they influence the land price, it goes down, everyone buys land, start paying a tier and then they put down a tier price increase.... what would you say then, what would everone say to that? Ok with you? u would all be happy with that? I hope u would not be uset with that.... its the same thing, just in a differant way......

But what if they set the cap at L$10? I don't see how they can set a cap without influencing the land prices.

thats fine, cause at least when i buy land in the future for L$10 i know i can sell it again for L$10, sounds pretty fair to me? and also i cant sell it for more then that, i could sell it for less....

Yes it has an influence...but only once and never again.... the problem is how can u plan to buy land cause u never know when they will drop a 40 sim bomb on everone to reduce the price..... did u see what kind of an impact that had...brought the prices down, then they started going up again, then another 10Sim bomb brought the price down again, stabilised and started going up.... then the big "no more first land", prices drop again..... no ways , not fair.....keep the price within a range , so that people can maybe sell waste land at the bottom of the range but also the good quality land can be sold at the max (of the cap).... but can never go over that.......

Whats wrong with that? Some people are unhappy once, everyone benifits and the prices will always be affordable, no more land hoggers (cause whats the point) and AV's will live in peace, perhaps there is more to this land flood that meets the eye..... There is nothing wrong with capping, less people will be hurt and people will know what to expect in the future......


Comments?

Well, I just paid 3500L$ for 32 sq m by accident! So I'm a bit sore about land right now. I'd found 2 adjacent 32m plots at 450 each but while I was buying the first one someone hovering overhead bought the other and put it back on sale at 3500L$ and I hadn't noticed until it was too late and the little blue panel appeared saying 'you have paid ****** 3500L$!!!.

That aside, LL is a business that needs to make money and from their point of view and ultimately ours, the best path is to get as many premium members as possible and to encourage as many of them as possible to own more than 512m so they start paying tier. So more land - much more land - is the way ahead, I'd have thought.

i agree land is good.... if they set a max selling price it would not matter how much land there is. everyone can buy as much as they need and will not have to worry about sellin it for a loss, also this problem that u just had will not be there cause there because land hawks will slowly disapear because there will be no real way of makin a real profit on land..... unless it is unique in some special way, and then it could be sold via the classifieds rather.....

I trully dont think you understand this game

It has an economy or tries to capping land costs would well ruin any economy related to that a lot of people derive fun from the money parts of games. Buying selling expanding becoming a business. Why would they want to cap prices and ruin the game for a great many people and when i say that it even relates to those who are non land barons. The idea is to try to get ahead in the game for many people some want to "beat" the game. Many start out with a goal to say first buy a premium membership but not use any real world money etc then once they get that to get more and mroe land and move up the ladder until they have their own island with a business and house and "Life" if you remove some of the bits and pieces that make second life what it is you kill the game.

Why should we buy land at all then using your logic why not just release a bunch of sims you choose your chunk mark it off and pay tier on the amount you claim as yours?

heck why not just remove lindens altogether and be done with it.

Come on!

You're not paying big tiers 'cause you want to support LL or whatever.

You're paying big tiers 'cause you hope to get an high profit off your tiers. I'm not an expert but they tell me that in RL financial market there isn't any high profit investment with a low or very low risk.

The higher the potential profit, the higher the risk. Low risk investments are safe, but you can't expect much from them.

SL or LL ain't cows to milk for your pleasure or advantage. I could personally afford to go premium and buy a couple of sims at the current auction prices. Why I don't do that? 'cause I know it's a risky business, because there's no guarantee that land prices will be the ones I expect and that will stay the same or even higher.

You accepted to run a risky business. If you aren't up for it anymore, call it quit.

I don't think this is quite the position of Linden Lab. Premium membership and land ownership are intimately related to one another. When the price of land gets to the point where a person has to reach into their real life pocket and pull out US$40-50 for a chunk of 2048 or 4096, that becomes a very real disconnect, for many people, from the cost benefit of going premium in the first place.

Since land ownership remains the core benefit of premium membership, LL have a vested interest in ensuring that land remains affordable for the majority of folks who want to own it.

In real-life terms, all land in SL is cheap. A 512m plot costs less than an evening out in RL. As they say, SL is not a game but a place to play different games. One such game is making Linden dollars and a good way of doing that is dealing in land.

i understand the game, i know what is involed in land i have been worked enough hours inland on land to understand how it works (and no i dont buy and sell, for me it is a business tool, without it, i have no business in SL, but with all things in life, u dont buy somthing as a tool that u going to make a loss on, and i would not have, until this brilliant Land flood sceme)

ok great stuff so what are u routing for here? making money off of land sales or not? if u are then how can u agree with the concept of relaseing tons of land to just reduce land prices? it had to be one way or the other..... land should continue as per supply and demand (without outside ridiculous land floods influence) or they need to cap the price, for people buying and selling land, your land moves quick you sell lots of land to people like me and i pay a high price (which i dont mind - cause i assumed supply and demand would take its natural course - normal and fine)
and now with these land floods the land will become half of what i paid for it. why because the lindens want to flood the market, now its ok to happen but how will anyone know when it will happan again when the prices reach 16L/sm? and the people who had faith in land Sales are suddenly complaining again because the price is was forced down?

It is simple, the land price should either be capped or it should be left to standard supply and demand, no sudden influences by the lindens to intentially cut prices..... if they going to do it, people should be warned along time before not 2 weeks......

please read everything, i dont buy and sell land..... it is where i perform my business, and yes everythiing "for cryin out lound" has a risk and i know that.....but havin someone manipulate the market is not supposed to be part of that risk!