What is the point of the Land Flood? what about us?

Hello,

Im a little confused here, please explain who the Land Flood of the new contintent is benifiting?

First Land has now been taken away, so, it has been said that the intention is to increase the amount of land in order to reduce the price of land sales.

I dont know who is benifiting, i think this plan is going to have a very negative effect on everything,
Island owners, how can u compete anymore?
People that have bought loads of land(as investments), r u ready to lose half ur money due to this "un-natural" way of controlling prices? u know its impossible buy up all the land that LL generates..... As far as i know, u are being cheated, u paid full high prices (u were prepared to pay this), now other people are not and You lose out? Who put more money into SL?

What happens if a company sells to many shares? Everone buys them, it becomes to easy to sell, until the price is nothing and noone can sell anymore.....Loads of shares for sale but nobody buys.....

I figured land was an investment, how can it possibly be an investment if the outcome of this investment is controlled like that, ok so today we will buy allot of land in hopes to sell all the land and maybe make a small profit, who knows may tomorrow LL will put a max selling price on land at half the price of what u paid. it has not happend but who says it wont happen? if LL can make a decision to re-lease all this land to reduce the price of land, well thats not fair, that is basically setting a price, in a long winded way?

We all, everyone in SL starts off at the same place - SL depends on what u do, if u dont do anything u cant get anythin.... u cant demand somthing that u have not earned, We all made sacrifices....some of us more than others to get where we are....ok but now we may as well give it all back, whats the point , today u come up with a unique product, which u have spent allot of time on, tomorrow it is re-leased for free, how would you feel?

Can u imagine if that respect for land is lost....Well i cant see much of a future. Even the store owners.... guys even if u rent land, it gives u that edge, u had to work to get there, now it will become a case of everyone owning land, so eveyone will have shopes, so great SL will become a giant Disco Mall with sand boxes everywhere.....

Im not attacking anyone personally but i think that it is unfair, Land should have a natural growth, and yes it kept increasing...WHY, because people still wanted the land and were willing to pay the price!!!! There is no dooubt that it would get to the point where land will reach a peak and everyone will be like hey, thats enough now and then they will drop and increase etc etc....Natural fluctuation and balance is good, LL u keep upsetting this balance, and u are causing people to lose money....

Im sure , im sure that i will get some repsonses saying, come on, ur being greedy, ur a typical land owner setting the prices to high....well gues what, i dont buy and sell land as a business.... i own land YES, which i have paid for..... Think , just think about if that passion for land is lost, why do people prize land so much, it is a benifit a privilage, it opens new doors.....yes everyone should have this....and i believe they do, it depends on what sacrifices u are willing to make to get there...... (well would have been)

This is bad bad bad, just think very hard about this land thing, dont think about the fact that u want land now, think about the future about when everyone in SL owns there own private Sand box..... Really really think about.

I have been unsettled on this land thing for a few days, now i am saying somthing....i can bet you there is more people who feel the way i do.....I am not allone, i think back to the days of 24hour camping, when the SL caused me to download limit to be reached and i pushed forward... WHY, just to get my hands on that first piece of land...now i may own allot but soon it will be worthless......

Comments please, please if u have somthing negative to say against my post, have somthin solid to back it up and i dont mean this in a negative light, u need to convince me that this is the right thing to do....but right now i dont see the light.......

I posted the following to another thread. The land flood should not have as huge an impact as you think. That is just my opinion.

"The net result of the 20 sim dump was land dropping L$1 per meter. A far cry from the L$8 drop the market suffered when they dumped 40 at once. Brokers are no longer panicking at the sight of sims popping up for auction. My guess is once the entire new continent is sold, we won't be below $10 per meter. $12 per meter is probably more likely. Those praying or waiting for a crash may want to find a new pastime. Refute away, fellow opinionated pixels."

I agree with you, LL should not manipulate the market whenever the whim strikes them. However, they seem to take joy in trying to do just that.

Island owners can still compete because their sims look nicer, have waterfront on all four borders and they can control what your neighbor does, so you don't end up with a club, casino or rotating sign farm in your backyard.

I'm not sure of the other island owners, but I add a lot of value to my land by keeping out undesirable elements (signage, laggy camp chair ridden desolate clubs, shouting vendors etc.) . So the influx of new mainland land isnt going to affect me in the slightest. The ones that it will eventually hurt will be those that snapped up all those sims at far above what they should have cost, and now are stuck with the daunting task of either eating the tier, or dumping it at a loss. People know my opinion on that situation already so I wont reitterate it here again. If they keep mass releasing sims, prices will fall. If they do the start stop start stop thing, 'maybe' they will fall if land production exceeds people's impulse buying. I would love nothing more than to see land back down to 5L per m2. Times were good then, people were happy, the threads werent full of OMG LOOK AT THOSE PRICES HOLY SH*T etc.

It cant get too much worse, so lets hope it gets better. The faster the better for you guys too.

LL wants land prices lower because then more people can afford to own land (which benefits LL). If they never created new land, prices would be astronomical. Don't look at it as an investment, because if you hold it for very long, tier will eat away at any potential return. If you bought at the peak of prices, I'm sorry. All I can say is caveat emptor.

Also, let me add that for every person who is mad like yourself that land prices are now much lower than when they bought their land, there are ten people who still think prices are too high and want LL to take action.

"Our hope is that through much higher levels of mainland expansion, market forces will act to bring resale prices down over time, for example the new continent being brought up to the east. " as per the announcment.

i understand that it should perhaps not be looked at as an investment, well defn. not any more but if u buy land to start "a business" hoping one could at least sell it for the price that it was paid for, that would have been nice.... that is out of the question now...

My concern is not really the fact that land will be created, we do need the land but what worries me is the rate at which it is expaning....

LL intends to bring the price under 10L/sqm, or at least that's what they implied on the official blog. So you can count on it to continue. It is what it is. Good for some, not as good for others.

Yes mainland is expanding. But the expansion rate of the population should mean the land you buy today at 13 a meter should hold its value. However, performance issues of late have a lot of the new residents giving up in frustration. The removal of First Land means less reason to upgrade to premium. And all the messing around LL does with the economy all create a very unstable and volatile economy. That's why I think a base of 10 is quite possible too.

I lowered my tier and I'm waiting on the sidelines until things stabilize a bit, especially regarding the performance issues. However a lot of brokers are making good money right now despite all that's going on.

I'm probably one of those people who bought when land was at, or near, its highest price, but I don't feel like I need any sympathy.

I wanted land to host my growing SL projects, I decided how much I could afford for a (passionate) hobby, and I looked until I found land that I liked and bought as much of it as as I could within my budgeted amount.

Honestly, I never calculated the L$/m rate, so I have no idea whether I got a bargain or taken to the cleaners. I suspect it was somewhere in between. If land prices fall, so what? I have had full use of that land in the meantime, instead of waiting and waiting on the presumption, or hope, that eventually they would fall.

As has been pointed out before, the land tier I pay for my parcel will quickly overshadow the price difference on its sale value. Shaving a few dollars off here or there -- unless you find that kind of speculating fun -- is simply a waste time when I could be doing the things that truly interest me in SL.

Stew—This bubble was caused by an artificial—and temporary—scarcity of mainland over the last several months. When you joined SL, land prices were just beginning to blow up into the current bubble. Throughout most of SL’s history, average land prices have ranged between 5 to 8 L$ per meter squared. Linden Lab has made a policy of trying to keep them in that range.

What happened in November was that LL announced that they were raising prices and tier for new private islands (from 195US/month to 295US/month), and that only around 200 island still “in inventory” would be sold at the old rate.This provoked a huge outcry. LL responded by modifying their new policy so that any island ordered before November 20th would pay the lower start up cost, as well as locking in the 195U/month tier for the next year. They were inundated with island orders.

From late November until early this month, almost all of LL’s capacity to bring on new servers for sims was devoted to filling island orders. Very little new mainland was created. But new people continued to flood into the world. Demand for land outstripped supply. People saw prices going up and assumed they would always go up. So people bought more land. Less experienced land dealers speculated on what new mainland sims were put out to auction driving prices up at the source.

But not everyone in SL wants land. And LL has a lot of grid real estate they can fill. A correction in the land market is inevitable. Many people think land will never again go down into the historic range 5 to 8 L$/m2, and will bottom out at around 10L$ to 12L$/m2. I think they are whistling in the dark. LL has long made lower land prices a policy. I think they will pump out as many sims as they can sell. Sure they may sell those sims at 1000US per sim instead of 2000US per sim—but each sim they sell is at least 195US a month, month in and month out (usually more, as most mainland owners pay at lower tier levels, which net LL more money per meter squared of land).

I expect to see land prices crash and bottom out in 4 to 5 L$/m2 range before recovering back up into the 5 to 8 L$/m2 range.

Wow. When do you think that will happen? We went down to $6 per meter for a day after the 40 sims were dumped and the new continent was announced, but the current army of brokers quickly brought the price back to 12.

How do you see us going back to the good old days with so many more residents wanting to play the real estate game?

Also, the cheapest sim for auction over the last week worked out to a cost of around 10 a meter. It was then set for sale at 11.7. Do you see sims auctioning for $1400? That is the only way to reach the types of numbers you are prognosticating.

So are we saying that we should just sell all of our mainland before a this major reduction so that we dont lose money that we paid for it? Also if LL wants to balance or bring the price to some average why are they doing it so that people that have paid the current market prices will lose out, would it not be fair to kinda stabilise the prices at the average market price now?

Also if they are so determined, why dont they just set a "Max" selling price per prim (not a min cause none of us need the side of a mountain at a standard high price ) ? Would this not simply solve the problem?

Not at all. It depends on a lot of factors. Did you buy your land to use or to resell for profit? How much did you pay per meter? What is your monthly land use fee and are you willing to keep paying it?

Then there's what LL does. If they drop 40 sims at once, and the market goes to 8, maybe you will wish you sold. Or it could just as easily creep up to 14. A lot of factors to think about...

i have been buying land from 12.5 upwards and i pay the price, if i make aprofit one day when i sell it thats great, but for now i use the land to run my business (which basically pays for my tier) i just dont want to lose money, thats what it boils down to.... look i mean if we all bought land for 10 per SM all the time it would fine, we never had to look at increase and decrease of prices, now it has been bought, for a 1024 lot it means nothing really but when it comes to like a sim of mainland plus more it makes a huge differance....in the price bought and the price sold at the end of the day.....

I still think the land should have a natural progression..... and LL should keep up with the Supply, not bomb these sims on everyone.....

Who is going to actually LOWER their prices now? They they really have to? All I know is, the crappy 604m^2 next to me is being resold for L$24,000 up from its recent purchase price of IIRC just under L$17,000. Could somebody get the message out to these guys that the bubble burst? I could go for some prim land. Thanks!

(Second) Life isn't always fair. They have to balance the interests of ALL residents.

it is not a way to go about business..... if they can do that , they can do anything, like i say ALL the people in SL have the same start the outcome of our SL should be determind by us and not LL, they created the environment and should not keep interfering with it.... Let it be... granted it is a game, but bottom line, u cant run a RL business like that.....

You think they have the residents' interests in mind when they make decisions? Then why did they do away with most of this forum? Land Maintenance? First land? Not address performance issues? Not immediately address the land bot issue? Drop 40 sims at once intentionally trying to crash the market? Not fix the disappearing water bug? Allow free unauthorized memberships? Raise the price of Islands? Not create a workable, timely customer service department?

Why can't I tp people anymore? Why can't I answer IMs from my email anymore? Why can't I tp without showing up bald with my shoe stuck up my ass? You get the idea...

pfft. Linden wants people to buy and hold land. They would rather more people own land to keep, because new residents will continue to take it up. More residents, more membership, more tier. Or else there is no point to adding land.

And just as scarcity leads to unfair conditions... so does surplus.

Land barons know the risks... or they don't last long. =)

There is no "long term investment" in SL's virtual land, tier fees are steep and can double an invenstor's costs in a small number of months, without increasing their assets at all.

It's nice that LL is trying to make land more affordable for new players by providing a surplus... but 20 sims is a drop in the bucket.

they should add land, they must add land, for sure and without a doubt but not to crash the land market to make it easier to "spread" the land and cut the prices.... its just wrong.... yes i know they want it to be easier for lots of people to own land but the land is owned and the tiers are paid for.... its maybe not as spread out as they would like it to be but it will get there naturally.... no need to screw people over who have already bought land.... Like some one said, people will also just start buyin the land up for more prims......

Its a crazy solution and they are hurting the people who have actually paid lots of RL money for this land..... what they do with that land, should have nothing to do with anyone but the land owner, and if LL wants land to be cheap how come they auction it off for so much? Is that double standards, selling land for so much but then crashin the market to bring the prices down?

Change starts at the source? is this not correct?
Perhaps they should look at their prices and their standards before they start "limiting" or restricting what the AVs do....

Ok here is a piece of land for 2000USD but u BETTER sell it for 1000USD ? ummmm

It really is no ones fault but your own that you didn't wait to buy your land. Prices fluctuate. One day it will be worth more, then next it may be worthless. Historically, land is not a reliable investment.

**oh and also, how is manipulating the price of land "limiting" what AV's do?

Tristan , we can ALL understand that the prices fluctuate, and im all for it.... its a good thing.... But this should be natural it should not be influenced by lindens.....They are forcing the prices down so it will fluctuate around the prices they are pushing for but what about the land that was bought for the last 4 months? And further more, when i started buying land.. there was no threats of LL flooding the market with land I paid 12.5 up to 14 per sm , which yes may be high, i dont care, so if it fluctuats between say between 12 and 16 thats fine but they will INFLUENCE the price to drop down to 8 per sm, if i knew that they would start influencing the prices...i would NEVER have bought land....

So the information that i was given to base my decision to buy land on, has now changed, u cant change things like that...oh unless ur LL?

How is that different from RL? You could buy a house and then suddenly you find out they are building an airport nearby and you will be directly under a major flight path for planes potentially lowering the value of your home.

Yes you partly right, in RL or in SL if someone put a junk yard next door to your property yes, it will lower the value but they are not building a junk yard, they creating land out of sea.....Also it would be differant if they were building a junk yard to specifically to reduce the price of the land next door, cause in ur example this is what they are doing, this is not real, this is not done.....

and in RL if somone decided to build an airport next door to me, i better have have known about it months before.....

During the summer of 2004, land prices were sky-high. At the end of the summer, LL flooded the market with new sims. Pirces dropped precipitously overnight. Their reason for doing that way?

"We wanted to break the backs of the land barons" -- Direct quote from a higher-up at LL.

i.e. it was a conscious decision to negatively affect some of their best customers. Those that paid the most tier and made it easy for individual SL users to quickly acquire/get rid of land.

Linden Lab only cares about Linden Lab. If they think flooding the market with land will net them some benefit, you can bet dollars to doughnuts they'll do it.