nix on gambling? Watch the populations flee

People play other games where there is no profit to be made... why should SL be any different? Casino owners would still profit IN GAME where it counts. If you make lots of IN GAME money that is spent IN GAME... then what is the problem? You think the community is that weak that it needs a way for it's players to make real profit in order to succeed?

Narrow-mindedness at it's best.

Why can't people play and create content just for the shear joy of playing the game? Does there have to be some kind of real profit in it? If so, then this game really is doomed... and not just because they eliminated gambling. I sat and made over $L18,000 because it's what I wanted to do... not because I thought there was real profit involved. Had I known that, hell I would have made all kinds of characters and made all kinds of money sooner.

Tier fees.

Which can very very easily be covered by selling the content you create


.

Ahhh... yes. But, again, if these fees are charged to in game money then there really isn't a problem, is there? That is, unless you have absolutely no way of making money in game.

Personally, I don't get the whole concept of purchasing virtual items with real cash. If I'm going to blow a load of money on something... I want it to be something tangible that I can enjoy any time I wish. To each their own, I suppose.

You mean other than LL folding for lack of money, right?

That's what monthly subscription fees are for... many other games have done it, and they have been greatly profitable.

SL isn't a game, though. "Games" in the sense you mean come with content built in, have goals and obstacles, people have certain reasonable expectiations for it.

SL is really more a virtual world, there are no goals or obstacles, there is no provided content. Its model is to be a platform for others to build on.

Having an economy that interfaces with the real world helps folks build very large, intricate content. Games and services that can be self-supporting. Cut that off and you're stuck with just hobbyist content and frustrated hobbyists who can't afford to grow thier projects larger than their meager hobby budgets.

It's better with a real economy. Not without its problems, but better none the less.

nice number, where did you pull that one out of, your ass?

maby some will, only the truly creative will survive and thats a good thing

99% of scripting developments are not casino related, we have pretty much taped that source, altho there was always new ideas theres only so many ways you can make a random number generator and a UI


funny i never saw "the right to gamble" on the TOS


noone will remember you in 6 months, let alone remember to email you



gambling isnt a feature, features are things like mp3 radio and avatar creation, they havent nerfed any of them

also neverquest is a bad example "see how sony f*ed up by creating the most successful MMORPG ever!"

thats right up there with "penicillin sux!"



wtf are you talking about, SL vs WOW ? 2 totally different experiences there cheif, if i want to hang out with buddies, listen to music and dance i play on SL, if i want to mine ore and kill orc's i play wow

"cars really suck and they are dangerous, thats why everyone that owns a car is riding unicycles"



yea because a minor portion of the population is having a hissy fit is much more expensive than a federal lawsuit



buh bye

Compare what WoW requires in terms of server hardware with what its population base is, however.

Hello Apple, this is an Orange.

SL isn't a game, so your entire point is rather wasted, sorry.

I disagree. Just because many people don't view SL as a game doesn't mean that Linden Labs should blatantly ignore everything that successful games have done to become and remain profitable.

There are surely some lessons to be learned from MMORPG's business models and marketing, as well as their customer support

.

Hey would you look at that...gambling has been banned and there are still a lot of people using SL.



please inform Chicken Little the sky is not falling.

That's because it isn't a game. In the same sense that it isn't a gas station or a cast iron pot.

I think the online gambling people saw that SL was cutting into their business, and it's a BIGG business strictly regulated to reduce the amount of fraud. There's NO consumer protection against fraud in SL, your local SL gambling place can be utterly crooked and you would have no recourse. LL doesn't care if you win a few dollars but the RL gambling lobby does...

What does "Ainokea" mean? Well, its the Hawaiian Pidgin equivalent of "I no care". SL gambling is not something I actively do, or seek to do, so ainokea! But, if it gets rid of just 10% of the freebie accounts, cause its the only thing they do, since some do not contribute actively to the world of SL, sorta like a leech, just causing more lag with the "toys" they buy, causing grief for those of us who do pay, or the free accounts who, for one reason or another cannot afford SL, but still actively contribute to making SL a better world to play in...than I say, here here!

Personnally, I find the gambling establishments only a way for some to make a quick buck off the unwary, and those who spend their hard earned money, both inworld and off, a blight to SL. Not only do those establishments cause tons of lag, but even being in region nearby is affected, sometimes. So, here the penny for my thoughts on this....

AINOKEA!

YAY they banned gambling

Now all they need to do is add a voice chat feature and SL will be as LAME as There.com.

Oh great God of SL... prey tell what the hell would you call it?

A simulation? pffft

At best you could call it an interactive graphical chat program. Oh wait... isn't that also what games are?

Hmmmm.

Whether it is a "game" or not (I still contend that it is), doesn't change my point in the slightest. If LL hadn't allowed free accounts, we probably wouldn't be having this debate. No wonder people complain about lack of contribution to the "community"... it seems all LL does is take away. If this is the way LL consistenly treats their customers, then they don't deserve to have ANY. You can jump up and down and yell "WHOOP WHOOP" all you like... just wait until the day they decide to take away something that you DO like. Then what are you going to do? Are you going to continue to bend over and take it like the good little customer you are? Or are you going to tell them to shove it where the sun doesn't shine?

"Oh but they won't take anything away that isn't illegal!"

Great. When everything you don't like about the game is gone, then you'll be the only one with the desire to play it. You keep defending their action simply because you loathed casinoes. You keep overlooking the fact that there was absolutely no warning concerning the actions they were going to take. But, I suppose if you like that sort of thing then this is the perfect place for you to be.

Months back they told casinos they couldn't advertise their services in the LL's classifieds, which spoke volumes for where the policy was going to anyone with half a brain or more.

"Absolutely no warning" is bogus, there was plenty warning. It was coming, you could tell it was coming, it was inevitable it was coming. Casino gambling, especially without a license or any government regulation, is illegal in the U.S.A. and in most nations. This shouldn't be a big shock to ANYONE.

Tobacco companies aren't allowed to advertise in Canada. Does this mean we can assume cigarettes and other tobacco products will suddenly become illegal and banned without warning? Of course not... and for you to draw that conclusion is laughable. Just because you aren't allowed to advertise, doesn't mean your product or service is going to suddenly and without warning be banned.

Get off your high horse already. You're no better than anyone else that plays SL... yet you continually try to elevate yourself above the rest of us that either gambled or supported it. Now that you've got your way, you can't stop gloating. I cannot wait until LL pulls some sort of BS that affects the way you play the game... I will be the one here gloating and repeating four little words over and over... "I told you so!, I told you so!"

*chuckles* The day that the illegal activities I indulge in within SL are banned, please, be my guest, gloat all you like.

Meanwhile, yeah, I'm glad gambling is officially banned now. Less craptastic casinos lagging whole stretches of the grid, uglying up the terrain, causing even more "camping" problems, etc. An "industry" which contributes nothing to the economy, simply siphoning off L$ from fools who are bad at math. Yeah, good riddance.

I could not agree with you more.

i live in the united states (in the midwest) and can can drive an hour to the casino and gamble legally. how is that illegal?

Being still a noob in SL, my "gaming" experience was limited to the occasional "sploder" in a club, so I don't feel "directly" affected by this rule... but I must agree with the "ripple effect" it will have on the community.

I can understand LL attitude on this: they're only "covering their backs" regarding the laws of the country/states they are based on.
Of course they could move the servers and the company to some country where online gambling is legal or unregulated, but then it would be the US players who gamble online that would be breaking the law, right ?

To be honest, we cannot just "cheer" or "condemn" this attitude/rule from LL.
The major problems are on their way: case u're missing it, there are already governments looking into the SL transactions in and out their countries.
Someone said that the streams (audio/video) would be next, but I say "tax will be next". The temptation for the governments to "take a slice" of the money circulating here is big and it's getting bigger ...

About the streams being the next target, I understand that LL doesn't "host" the streams, but they provide a mean to listen to them (SL UI). I'm not familiar with the US laws, but ... can't LL be "pushed" to remove the stream playing capability from the SL UI ?

Just to end my (confusing) 1st post, I have to say that I don't believe that the gamble banning will "kill" SL: it will have it's effects, yes, but it won't kill it.
I'm not too sure if LL didn't go into a loophole here, because the problem isn't starting "regulating" ... the problem is where and how to stop doing it.

Regards

yeah, and situations like this can and do breed innovation and inventiveness.

Lets see who comes up with what

The chat does not make it a game.
The graphical part doesn't make it a game.
The interactive part doesn't make it a game.

So how does all three make it one?

Do I have to say it again?

The most BASIC definition of a game is that "it is a structured or semi-structured activity, usually undertaken for enjoyment."

Second Life is FAR from structured.

Definitions of games

* fun: the activity is chosen for its light-hearted character (Second Life fails)
* separate: it is circumscribed in time and place (Second Life fails)
* uncertain: the outcome of the activity is unforeseeable
* non-productive (Second Life fails)
* governed by rules: the activity has rules that are different from everyday life (Second Life fails)
* fictitious: it is accompanied by the awareness of a different reality (Second Life fails)

Computer game designer Chris Crawford attempted to define the term game[2] using a series of dichotomies:

1. Creative expression is art if made for its own beauty, and entertainment if made for money. (This is the least rigid of his definitions. Crawford acknowledges that he often chooses a creative path over conventional business wisdom, which is why he rarely produces sequels to his games.)
2. A piece of entertainment is a plaything if it is interactive. Movies and books are cited as examples of non-interactive entertainment.
3. If no goals are associated with a plaything, it is a toy. (Crawford notes that by his definition, (a) a toy can become a game element if the player makes up rules, and (b) The Sims and SimCity are toys, not games.) If it has goals, a plaything is a challenge.
4. If a challenge has no “active agent against whom you compete,” it is a puzzle; if there is one, it is a conflict. (Crawford admits that this is a subjective test. Some games with noticeably algorithmic artificial intelligence can be played as puzzles; these include the patterns used to evade ghosts in Pac-Man.)
5. Finally, if the player can only outperform the opponent, but not attack them to interfere with their performance, the conflict is a competition. (Competitions include racing and figure skating.) However, if attacks are allowed, then the conflict qualifies as a game.

Second Life fails 3, 4, and 5.

Other definitions:

* “A form of play with goals and structure.” (Kevin Maroney)
* “A game is a form of art in which participants, termed players, make decisions in order to manage resources through game tokens in the pursuit of a goal.” (Greg Costikyan)
* “An activity with some rules engaged in for an outcome.” (Eric Zimmerman)

All three of which Second Life fails.