"Your wonderful little Japan hasn't had ANY economic growth in the past decade and a half. Europe is worse."
I feel sorry for you if you actually believe this.
Musuko.
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Musuko Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 435
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06-13-2006 06:54
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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06-13-2006 06:56
"Your wonderful little Japan hasn't had ANY economic growth in the past decade and a half. Europe is worse." I feel sorry for you if you actually believe this. Musuko. I feel sorry for you if you're not smart enough to pop open a WSJ or the Economist and see it for yourself. LOLZ. |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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06-13-2006 07:00
"It is so sad to hear that you are "moving on" from second life." Who said I was moving on? *sigh* Some people don't THINK. Made simple for you: if you like and buy what I make, it covers my costs and I continue to make things. If you like what I make but refuse to buy it, then my costs are not covered and I leave, and you don't get things you like in the game. If you don't like what I make, then I'm not working hard enough. I have a challenge for you: look at all the things you use in Second Life and deduct everything that you paid for. What you have left is all you have to play with in an SL without money. Like it? Musuko. Hmmm unlike real life, I dont have to keep buying the same things. My clothes dont wear out, dont need food or have medicial expenses. I do not have utitlity expenses . What does the stuff I paid for have do with anything? Once it is paid for dont need to buy it again  |
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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06-13-2006 07:04
"Your wonderful little Japan hasn't had ANY economic growth in the past decade and a half. Europe is worse." I feel sorry for you if you actually believe this. Musuko. bwahahahahahaha.... its 2006 and we done left Japan in the dust. Will it ever hit 40,000 again? Probably not. China and India are eating you for lunch. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=%5EN225&t=my |
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Kathryn Heyse
Registered User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 17
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06-13-2006 07:07
I'd reply, but, my world ended today, due to the "Free Stipend of Doom!".
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Musuko Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 435
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06-13-2006 07:10
"What does the stuff I paid for have do with anything?"
You would not be able to have all those things if SL did not have a system of money for the people who made them to earn. Those people would not have made them for you for free, because they would have made them as freebies already. So I say again; is SL such a good place to play without all that stuff you spent money on? "bwahahahahahaha.... its 2006 and we done left Japan in the dust." *yawn* Troll. Musuko. |
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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06-13-2006 07:12
No I'm not. Your pride just can't handle the truth. Japan sucks. |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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06-13-2006 07:13
Utter nonsense. Your wonderful little Japan hasn't had ANY economic growth in the past decade and a half. Europe is worse. America rocks!!! You do have a sense of humor! MCI, General Motors, Ford, Enron, Delta where do I stop with all of the "rocking" American firms? *laugh* GM *laugh* paying employees not to work! ROFL!!! No wonder Toyota is on top! GM is late with the new technology and still selling the same old fuel hog SUV while people want hybrids! All GM can do is ask Toyota for the Technology. They expect to get this for free! *laugh*giggle* laugh* Soon, very soon the new fuel cell vehicles will be available. I see a Toyota in every driveway in America if they keep up their self destructive actions! |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 07:13
Thats why they call it SECONDLIFE and not FIRSTLIFE. Get a real job and leave my play money alone. They call it SecondLife, not SecondGame, or SecondPlay, or SecondJustForFun. They don't call it SecondBusiness, either, but businesses, games, and just for fun laziness are all parts of life, too. If you don't want to pay for someone else's hard work, whether it's in game or in real life, no one is forcing you to. Plenty of free stuff in SL to play with(Yadnis Junkyard, etc), just as there is plenty of free stuff in RL to play with (Linux, Cardboard boxes, Junkyard). _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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06-13-2006 07:15
You do have a sense of humor! MCI, General Motors, Ford, Enron, Delta where do I stop with all of the "rocking" American firms? *laugh* GM *laugh* paying employees not to work! ROFL!!! No wonder Toyota is on top! GM is late with the new technology and still selling the same old fuel hog SUV while people want hybrids! All GM can do is ask Toyota for the Technology. They expect to get this for free! *laugh*giggle* laugh* Soon, very soon the new fuel cell vehicles will be available. I see a Toyota in every driveway in America if they keep up their self destructive actions! I'll concede we are behind on automobiles, that much is true. But we're rocking the $ervice $ector where all the money is. |
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Musuko Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 4 Nov 2005
Posts: 435
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06-13-2006 07:15
"If you don't want to pay for someone else's hard work, whether it's in game or in real life, no one is forcing you to."
Hear hear. Musuko. |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 07:19
I feel sorry for you if you're not smart enough to pop open a WSJ or the Economist and see it for yourself. LOLZ. Um, Jamie? Don't forget what's happening to things like GM, and America's electronics market... _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 07:23
"If you don't want to pay for someone else's hard work, whether it's in game or in real life, no one is forcing you to." Hear hear. Musuko. Damnit, if you're not going to use the quote function, at least give credit where it's due. It's not often I get a "Hear hear"  _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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06-13-2006 08:59
No, but it will stop most. Making things in SL costs real money: in upload fees, in land for stores or in rent for vendor spaces. My costs are $600ish a year. I'm not going to PAY $600 to WORK to better YOUR game. Last i checked, it was perfectly possible to cover these expenses with "play money" rather than real ones. As a matter of fact, this is how the people that you claim would all leave operate. They don't put real money into SL to run their business at the loss, do they? |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 09:16
Last i checked, it was perfectly possible to cover these expenses with "play money" rather than real ones. As a matter of fact, this is how the people that you claim would all leave operate. They don't put real money into SL to run their business at the loss, do they? When I was building my text to speech script prototype, I had to upload about 500 phonetic audio files. My friend is curently using my book scripted object to put together some of his comics that he wants to sell. Each comic is about 30 pages and there are about 10 of them that he's uploading (300 textures total). That's a $5,000L expense for me for a PROTOTYPE (just a test), and $3,000L expence for him he's hoping to sell. That's WAY more play money that you get in stippends, even with a $500 a week one (mine is $50l a week). That's not even mentioning the land rental expenses needed to have a place for a vendor to be able to sell this stuff. To be able to have those files uploaded I put in real money into SL, buying $L on Lindex. As did he. We both had a loss from that. His hopes is that his loss of real money will be offset by his sales later on. My hope is that my loss of real money will give me the experience with learning to script with audio and audio algorithms, and will either help me make that money back by selling the object I was testing, or help me sell the skills I have learned in another project. Everyone, in both SL and RL, puts their money to run their business at a loss, at least at first. LindenLabs is doing that now. They're having a lot of money put into their SecondLife business, and are still running at a loss. (for now I just have a kick-ass arm band sensor that actually talk to me by saying a person's name, followed by "detected," when they are within range. No need to actually look at any hover texts or anything.) _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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06-13-2006 10:03
When I was building my text to speech script prototype, I had to upload about 500 phonetic audio files. My friend is curently using my book scripted object to put together some of his comics that he wants to sell. Each comic is about 30 pages and there are about 10 of them that he's uploading (300 textures total). That's a $5,000L expense for me for a PROTOTYPE (just a test), and $3,000L expence for him he's hoping to sell. That's WAY more play money that you get in stippends, even with a $500 a week one (mine is $50l a week). I spent ~L$ 1k uploading textures a couple days ago. That's way more money than L$ 50 stipends give you. Magic? Hardly, simply used earnings from earlier sales to cover the expenses. Note also, there's no requirement to start your sales with 30 books when you can start with couple and expand your offer over time using your earnings. Neither i'd expect someone building such text-to-speech engine to _start_ their SL development from such product, and if they insist on that, there's always option of building much smaller and simpler prototype as 'proof of concept' and using that to secure money from potential investors. You _can_ put the RL money in your play, but it's by no means something you _have_ to do. And to boot, initial investment of money with hope of later profit is something completely different from what Musuko talks about i believe, i.e. continually putting in RL money to produce content without ever getting anything in return. o.O; |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 10:27
And to boot, initial investment of money with hope of later profit is something completely different from what Musuko talks about i believe, i.e. continually putting in RL money to produce content without ever getting anything in return. o.O; Paying into a business hoping for returns, but never getting them, happens in real life, too. My point was that if that's the de-facto standard outcome, businesses will stay away. And by "businesses" I mean content designers. _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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06-13-2006 10:44
Paying into a business hoping for returns, but never getting them, happens in real life, too. My point was that if that's the de-facto standard outcome, businesses will stay away. And by "businesses" I mean content designers. Too bad for them..... SL does not have the same properties as RL. A Coffee shop on a busy corner in RL makes sense, it does not in SL. After all you only have to buy a single cup of coffee in SL to have coffee forever I am in SL for reasons other than content. If it was for content alone would save my money. If there was no premium stipend, would just stop buying content. What is so hard to understand? |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 11:04
Too bad for them..... SL does not have the same properties as RL. A Coffee shop on a busy corner in RL makes sense, it does not in SL. After all you only have to buy a single cup of coffee in SL to have coffee forever You only have to pay rent for your land once to have that land for ever... Oh... wait...  What about telephone booths on corners? They don't make any sence, either. You only have to pay for a single telephone booth to have that phone service for ever. Wait.. Why do they charge so much to use it to call people? Maybe music would make more sence? You only have to pay for an MP3 once to have it for ever... Wait, why do they charge you $1US per song then? Doesn't make sence... Oh yeah, it's because people are paying for the service, whether it be the service of a telephone call, the service of owning something nice to play whenever you want, or the creative rights for someone who put their own time and tallent into making something, or, like in SL, the service of playing an enjoyable game. Seems to me SL is just an extention of RL there. I am in SL for reasons other than content. If it was for content alone I would save my money. If there was no premium stipend, would just stop buying content. What is so hard to understand? Nothing. I understand you perfectly. Enough so that I don't care if you keep your stippends or loose it, since they don't do anything for you, anwyay. And understand you enough to know that this entire discussion has absolutely nothing to do with you, since you don't bother paying for your $L through Lindex, and your stippend-paid content only contributes at most about $1.50 into the game. what I DON'T understand is: If you don't buy or sell on Lindex... If you wouldn't pay extra to buy other people's content... If the value of $ does not matter to you... If your stippend does not matter to you, since to you $L has no value and if it was cut you'd simply stop shopping... Then WHY are you even bothering with this topic? How in the world does this discussion of economy, Lindex, Stippends as an influx, and $L devaluation, even affect you? _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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06-13-2006 11:15
You only have to pay rent for your land once to have that land for ever... Oh... wait... What about telephone booths on corners? They don't make any sence, either. You only have to pay for a single telephone booth to have that phone service for ever. Wait.. Why do they charge so much to use it to call people? Maybe music would make more sence? You only have to pay for an MP3 once to have it for ever... Wait, why do they charge you $1US per song then? Doesn't make sence... Oh yeah, it's because people are paying for the service, whether it be the service of a telephone call, the service of owning something nice to play whenever you want, or the creative rights for someone who put their own time and tallent into making something, or, like in SL, the service of playing an enjoyable game. Seems to me SL is just an extention of RL there. Nothing. I understand you perfectly. Enough so that I don't care if you keep your stippends or loose it, since they don't do anything for you, anwyay. And understand you enough to know that this entire discussion has absolutely nothing to do with you, since you don't bother paying for your $L through Lindex, and your stippend-paid content only contributes at most about $1.50 into the game. what I DON'T understand is: If you don't buy or sell on Lindex... If you wouldn't pay extra to buy other people's content... If the value of $ does not matter to you... If your stippend does not matter to you, since to you $L has no value and if it was cut you'd simply stop shopping... Then WHY are you even bothering with this topic? How in the world does this discussion of economy, Lindex, Stippends as an influx, and $L devaluation, even affect you? I use my stipend to buy content. After all it is only play money! True, I could save up my play money and sell it for real money but it would not be alot. I show my support for content providers by spending my stipend on content. I just dont buy Lindens to buy content. Do you understand the difference? |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 11:28
I use my stipend to buy content. After all it is only play money! True, I could save up my play money and sell it for real money but it would not be alot. I show my support for content providers by spending my stipend on content. I just dont buy Lindens to buy content. Do you understand the difference? So... if you lost your stippend, then content providers won't get your $1.50US... but will also stop loosing tens to hundreds of $US due to inflation... Yeah, I see the difference. _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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06-13-2006 11:36
So... if you lost your stippend, then content providers won't get your $1.50US... but will also stop loosing tens to hundreds of $US due to inflation... Yeah, I see the difference. How many others will do the same is to be seen. I am not talking about $1.50 but thousands of American dollars per week. I already pay enough money to support Linden Labs, why should I support you as well? |
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Rasah Tigereye
"Buckaneer American"
Join date: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 783
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06-13-2006 11:55
I already pay enough money to support Linden Labs, why should I support you as well? You pay to be able to log in, look around, have spending cash, and have a 512sqm plot of Land. Essentially you pay to see the sky, and the land. Everything else that shows on your screen, from objects, to textures, to animations, sounds, and effects, you do not pay for. Someone else paid for all that. You are just able to enjoy it for free, because there are still enough OTHER people who are willing to help pay for it, and because the economy is still stable enough to allow others to pay to support it. by the way, you are Japanese, am I correct? Not to lump you all together, but I have noticed that when it comes to intellectual property (copyright) related stuff, getting paid for one's art and creations, and having that art/creation/copyright materials being spread around the internet for everyone else to see (even if the original was never for sale in the first place) is something Japanese artists seem to be MUCH more vocal about. I.E. if some US or EU artist's free artwork that they pasted on their web page ends up somewhere else, they complain a bit, may ask to take it down, but otherwise don't raise much of a fus. When a japanese person's art that they also put up on their website gets taken and posted on some other web site, they tend to post very threatening letters, are VERY vocal about it, and at times resort to quitting drawing alltogether, or drawing but never posting their artwork again. Again, this is just from my personal experience on the various art related groups and boards I have been on. Is this a Japanese culture thing? And if yes, and Japanese tend to value intellectual property rights a lot more than people in the west... _____________________
--- I feed trolls for fun and profit.
http://www.xnicole.com |
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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06-13-2006 12:06
Before it (continues) to kill our economy. Just Say No to "Free Money". End Communism! I have a better idea. Let's just get Linden to ban freebie resellers who call themselves distributors when actually they are labor and L thieves. Let's also get rid of anyone using rigged scripts for casino games.... and while we're at it how about ppl who use alt accounts in the forums to make it look like others are supporting the false panic they're trying to inflict so they can monopolize everything? Easy fix for second life. Get rid of the corrupt a-holes who are trying thier best to run it into the ground for profit. woops....forgot a couple, make all voting for club events public so they cannot be rigged anymore as so many in SL are. Also let's sack anyone who hires "employees" yet does not pay them. Just say NO to freebie resellers and trolls who lie. |
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Dmitri Polonsky
Registered User
Join date: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 562
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06-13-2006 12:11
...., but I have noticed that when it comes to intellectual property (copyright) related stuff, getting paid for one's art and creations, and having that art/creation/copyright materials being spread around the internet for everyone else to see (even if the original was never for sale in the first place) is something Japanese artists seem to be MUCH more vocal about. I.E. if some US or EU artist's free artwork that they pasted on their web page ends up somewhere else, they complain a bit, may ask to take it down, but otherwise don't raise much of a fus. A bit OT Rasah but in support of your statement, I once met a major poser artist using an alias on a file sharing site. She was actually taking the fact that people were grabbing her stuff and sharing it as a compliment and never ONCE did she get angry about it. If I remember correctly she was Danish. Very nice person and had a great sense of humor and outlook. |