Step 1: Eliminate the Basic Membership lindens giveaway effective now!

Got some news for you Cheyenne. DnS Designs... Dmitri and Selene Designs. We do all our buyng and selling in world which does support LS and our products do contribute to the entertainment needs of others.

Another bit of news for you. I do still have my premium account, I do pay tier. I chose to keep the two as totally seperate entities. So if anyone is paying his way, it's me. Not everyone else.

The fact that I have a premium account is not any of your business nor is it anyone else's but mine and Dmi's. The only reason I chose to reveal that fact is because I am tired of people like you trying to paint others in a bad light.

Welcome to my ignore list.

In the first place I haven't seen any friendly debate. All I have seen is market fixing scare tactics and misdirection.





Almost doesn't require response but, the only thing I see as pathetic is trying to lead people down a garden path using a mob hysteria creation tactic when you could actually be making constructive suggestions.





You aren't paying anything so I can chat and create for free. I work for a living both in world and out TYVM.



Well let's see, the only people I see whining about a lousy 15 cents is you and your partners in crime. I use any and all of my L's in world thereby NOT harming the economy by hoarding then releasing to create panic and misdirection.



Why not show a little respect for those new folks you money mongers who can't create squat are all preying on too. They have just as much to get paid for work as you do since most of them do real work, not just sit on thier A$$ all day hoping someone will buy thier speculation. You might give some thought to this, without those new ppl, you and your friends would amount to a handful of ppl who probably couldn't even build a box to live in.

See this is were you go wrong. You don't get to determine what Second Life is. It is something different to all of us. Just because you feel that Stipends should be ...well...a discount/incentive coupon, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. And this is what's at the core of this debate.

Because LL can not survive without being financially compensated for their product (SL), means we should all be expected to contribute to the financial health of Second Life.

So you are right in that yes, merchants use THEIR $USD to pay rent to LL for land and property and the ability to sell their wares, but you are wrong in that customers should be expected to use a free stipend to pay for those wares. If merchants are expected to use THEIR $USD to sell their wares, then customers should be expected to use THEIR $USD to buy said wares. This means learn to use the LindeX, if you want to play customer and be a part of SL.



Way to stick up for your buddy. I'm sure he'll appreciate it However, my post was an appropriate response to his post. And unlike his, contained factual information.



Please...

save the drama.



I'm sure it was.

Truth hurts.

If this means I wont have to have to put up with anymore of your responses...

...can anybody say...

Yay

Hahahah... I love it went people say "I put you in my ignore list"..
I can't help but laugh.. Because all they've done is ignored you and
cut themselves out of the conversation. When everybody else starts
replying to you, they have no idea what is going on. Its wonderful.


Keep up the good work Cheyenne, the more fools who put you in
their ignore list, the nest idiots who respond to your comments.

Lol...These forums are so fun.

True, true, true... Its like having your own Comedy Club.
Get this, one of the users around her feels that he can report some
nonsense about a libel posting and actually believe something will
come it. I can't help but laugh at the idea.. Thats like cookie monster
crying to Big Bird that Burt and Ernie stole his cookies.. lol

The only fools here are the ones who don't realize there is more than one way to ignore a person.

Praise the Lords of Cobal. When will that new way
find your fingertips? I can only pray.. lol

I thought you "ignored" me? Guess you can't resist my
animal magnetism.. You can't resist me, thus you can't
ignore me..

Above 18? Then you, too can discuss things with eloquent summaries and listed facts! You, too can be respectful of others! Make your parents proud!

And btw, there was a discussion ... about basic membership plans? Did anyone have their own version of a new membership system? Perhaps something more tier-like?

Funny.. You figured you could have spelled your
own name correctly.

Its: Cthulhu
Not: Cthulu

Not at all. Same here.




Yeah, same with me. But, that was more than a year ago. What I think would make sense would be to offer a $10 a year account with stippends, or a free account without. That should meet the needs of almost anyone.



Sorry, could you repeat that?
Actually, I know what you mean. Trick is, so many people have so many varied opinions in this matter... and not many solutions come about. Solutions to major problems usually require some kind of sacrifice by the majority of people. LL seems to recognize the problem, because they hired an economist to help them figure things out. But one thing is for sure: nothing will be accomplished by everyone insisting on their own interests above the common good of Second Life. Someone is going to have to give a little somewhere. So far, no one seems to be willing to do that. Therefore, the questionable economy and L$ market glut is likely to continue.




That's likely true since a) They're either working or paying for their stippend b) They're the ones getting hit on the nose every time the value of the L$ goes down and c) it's not going to be the people receiving the L50 each week that recommend it be discontinued. LOL.



Interesting thought. There may indeed be a few who think that way. But I think the majority base their feelings on the fact that the L$ has decreased in value by 15 to 20% over the past few months. That hits people in their pocketbooks, because to a merchant/landowner, L$ are worth nothing until they are converted to US$. And when that conversion factor drops by up to 20%... that is the primary cause for concern. It means they're still working just as hard, but their paychecks are getting cut. I don't think their motives have to do with any conspiracy; it has to do with being able to pay bills.




Well, to afford a premium account, one basically has to sell L2000 of merchandise a month. Just about any merchant can do that with a little effort. Another L1500 and you have extra land. So it's not too bad... unless the L$ don't convert for enough to make it worthwhile.



I don't know as it involves discrimination. Again, there are other ways to gain L$. It will just force the freebie users to seek out those ways (and thus make their time on SL less "boring" rather than waiting each week to have L$ handed to them for basically just existing.

So far that is the most reasonable suggestion I've seen. I certainly wouldn't object to paying $9.95 for another year when August rolls around. I've only had this account since Aug 31, 2005.







So far, I haven't had anything worth converting yet that I didn't need to hang onto to pay land rental and uploading fees. We can be reasonably sure there are many, many others in the same boat.





Thank you for that info. You're the first person who has put an L figure to it. I have asked but somehow answering the question was always avoided or I was given some vague answer, even laughed at. Now all I have to do, once I start pulling in 3500Ls a month is figure out how to convert it. I've looked at times for info on that but haven't found anything. I'm sure it's there somewhere. I just haven't looked long enough or in the right place yet.





Which is why I used the adjective "reeks". It's not the same thing as saying the discrimination is definately there. The "appearance" is certainly there though.





Granted, I don't know this for a fact, but I can be reasonably certain that most freebie basics do just that, at least from time to time. And some of us paid basics do take time away from our businesses to do such things as play tringo when we are short on Ls and we know our rent is coming up.

Now I am going to go get my second cuppa and wake up so I can get some work in SL done. lol

IMO as a merchant and a content creator, a person who's most interested in stabilizing the $L. LL shouldnt and MUSTNT hurt the niether the premium nor the basioc accounts, these are the people that come to play, and have fun, and eventually buy. The ones who should pay the price are US the content creators and merchants. Im offering a tax system, $L tax, not $US, should be implemented on transactions, or $LL sales on LindeX (i know people will go some place else to trade their $L that way, so LL should figure something out). This would be better for many reasons, the important one of which is that it wont hurt the buyers which make the economy roll. I'm ready to pay tax to make sure that tomorrow's $L will be equal to today's one.

That's a very warm and fuzzy point of view but not very well informed in terms of economics.

I am a merchant and a content creator. I pay LL:

- A monthly membership fee of $10US
- Land tier fees on more than 8m2 of land required for the sole use of my business
- Upload fees in the thousands of lindens each month for product textures, signage, etc. This would be much, much worse were I a texture store.
- $30L per business per location for "List in Find Places"
- More than 20K each month in classified advertising - and I consider the new "pay for ranking" system to be a business tax already, by the way.

And at the end of the day, all of that nets me 20% LESS than it did when I joined. LL is makeing QUITE enough off me as a business, thank you. If on top of that you think I should also pay business taxes, you can go fly a kite.

So you suppose it would be better to take the money from residents?? People who dont buy lindens now wont buy em when the stipends are down, they'd probly just stop playing (which will bring down the whole playing expiriense for the whole world - less players = less fun = definitly less buyers), people who pay monthly 10 bucks for they stipend would be VERY annoyed if you cut it down to let content creators make profit (i know i would be), and probly stop playing (lok at the above formula). But the bottom line isnt this really, the bottom line is that we merchants wont actually LOSE anything in the long range, it is better to sell $L1000 10 times for USD$3 than L$1000 one time for 3.4, the next for 3.2 etc.

Hey, *I* am a resident too. Its not a popular POV but I'd rather see my 500L a week go than have a business tax, which is a dis-incentive to business and to content creation.

However I an NOT suggesting premium account stipends be cut. I *am* suggesting that basic account stipends be cut. By all means, one stipend per person, but one stipend per alt is crazy.



Can I ask what you think people are buying with their 50L a week? Bubble gum?



I'm not suggesting cutting stipends for premium account holders, just basic account holders. You can make and sell items even as a basic account holder, so why should you get the bennies of a free 50L a week when the rest of us are paying for premium membership?



I am totally unwilling to give LL additional money off my very hard labour when LL is GIVING MONEY AWAY FOR FREE to people who are not invested enough in the game to cough up. They can't come upw ith $10US a month in account fees so I have to come up with it in business tax? I don't think so.

I c your point, and I'll have to agree that the basic account stipend may as well go, but it wont solve the problem coz a very large amount of people getting 500L a week out of nowhere, (money that should eventually dissapear if we are to keep the linden stable) and most of them arnt content creators, and they dont have other sources of income, AND they dont want to do anything, they come to PLAY. I think it's unwise to hurt those, as they are (may sound a bit cold) the main source of income.
Another thing, I didnt suggested giving LL more money, not actually money that is. They should take the tax in $L - thats the whole point, if they take it in $USD no $L would actually leave the world, so it d be kind of futile and not smart. They wont be making more money from it, WE WILL. duh.

I have to agree with the basic concept of a sales tax. An SL sales tax has often occurred to me, but I've hesitated to mention it due to the inevitable negative reation this will gain. However, it's the most powerful and most immediate way I can think of to stabilize the L$. It would be a very effective L$ sink. The good thing is... once the L$ is stabilized, sales tax can drop to zero.

However, I strongly disagree that the content creators and merchants should pay the sales tax. That's putting the burden exclusively on a specific class. They're already the ones paying for merchant space, premium fees, land etc. Sales tax should be BUYER side, and apply equally to everyone, regardless of who they are or what they do.

MeLight, hate to point this out, but imho, this is totally off-base. There is not one single person on SL getting 500L a week "out of nowhere". That is their contracted stippend with Second Life and they pay for that weekly allowance. The only ones getting any L$ out of nowhere are the 50L / week Basic-freebie members.

Further, you make the claim that "most" of those who get 500L a week "arnt (sic) content creators... AND they don't want to do anything" etc etc etc. Surely you jest. First of all they pay for their membership, which is definitely doing something. In addition, many of them pay for that premium membership because they are land holders, merchants, content creators.

Sorry, unless I misunderstood something, that one was just a tad far out in left field. I don't see where you draw these conclusions.

Yeah, I'm not proposing hurting people's income... just fixing the problem. Those who play for free should not gain stippends; those who pay should.



Actually, to tell the truth, I would more believe that is a minority. As one user said, most users who enjoy Second Life are not poor; they can afford to upload a few textures. And most merchants sell enough items that texture uploading isn't that big a deal. One thing about being a merchant though: anyone can build an item and put it in a sales box. That's not enough to be a true Merchant on Second Life. There are many things involved, and it takes time and hard work to succeed.



Second Life screen, upper right hand corner, blue circle with an L$ in it. Click it, go to website, place a SELL order. Once the sale is made, you need to have funds transferred to a PayPal account. Whole process takes about 10 days total before it ever hits your bank account, but it works, kinda.

What I don't like is the fact that LindeX is an "open market"... which means basically an unregulated stock market where the L$ value goes up and down on a regular basis. LindeX is prone to manipulation and "greed sells" at excessively low prices. This in itself causes the L$ to be unstable, especially without effective L$ sinks to regulate buyer demand. Such a system failed when GOM conducted it (from what I've been told L$ zoomed from up and down from $3.25/1000 to over $6/ 1000) and it's not a good system still. But right now, it's pretty much the only way to sell L$.

So true. I own a computer sales/service shop in RL.







uh oh... Then I am already in trouble. I don't have a PayPal account. I don't intend to have one either. All the hacks etc that have occured are more than enough for me to steer clear of PayPal.








Can't disagree there.


Edit to add:

From what I've heard there had been taxes in SL at one time. I can't comment on how it was structured but apparently it wasn't something that worked. I'm not so sure it would work now. It's hard enough now to make enough Ls to pay my inworld "bills" without adding taxes in on top. Obviuosly I would be against taxes at this point. Unless it was structured similar to US income tax where below a certain income is not taxable. To be honest I can't think of a way to tax things that would work. Not unless we are all willing to file tax forms with LL. I doubt that would work either. Just thinking about it is a total turn off.