Step 1: Eliminate the Basic Membership lindens giveaway effective now!

Yes, I have Kitty. I have my kit, unfortunately I've had so much to do I just haven't gotten to it yet. Hopefully I can get to it soon and see how things go. At the moment I"m in the middle of a somewhat large project and just needed a break so I came to read the board.

I know there are the lazy bum basics out there. I just don't feel any of the basics that work their butts off should have to suffer because of others' laziness. It just isn't right. If basics who work get their stipend taken away then so should the premiums. I know alot of premiums that are just as lazy as some of the basics. If stipend is stopped for some it should be stopped for all. After all, if a law is passed, it applies to everyone. So, if stipend is done away with, it should be done away with across the board. No playing favoritism just because some have premium accounts and some don't. Still the same haves and have nots story.

Anyway... thank you for asking about SLExchange and posting your thoughts in a nice way.

Well, first thing I'd recommend is a little brandy. It calms the nerves.

You separate in your mind the "have's" and "have nots"... yet you fail to recognize that the "have's" have because they work for it, not because it's handed to them for nothing. You show disdain for those who have achieved a degree of success on SL and claim they keep you "under their thumbs". No one is keeping you under their thumbs. No one controls you, or your actions, or your skills or abilities. People on SL are only limited by themselves.

I read all your objections. You basically state you can't make L$ because of competition. Everyone else has the same competition. Just as in RL, it's a matter of knowing what to market, how to market, where to market and providing something people want. Merchanting is a skill. I often tell beginning merchants: it's not enough to build something, put out a vendor and wait for the bucks to come in. It's a job just like anything else and you have to work at it.

Competition exists everywhere. Some people can't make it in SL just like they can't make it in RL. That doesn't mean LL should be paying them $9 a year to play the game. I mean, think about it. They give us free membership. They give us free merchandise (and a lot of that free merchandise is pretty decent stuff). They give us the ability to build, the ability to design, the ability to script. Now whether we engage ourselves to develop the skills to use those benefits is purely up to us. We have all the tools we need; all we have to provide ourselves is the drive, time and willingness to learn.

You don't want to play competitions because you hate clubs? There are competitions outside of clubs, every day. There are games, contests, sporting events, all kinds of things. And a person can buy L$, if they just want something so very much they have to have it.

So I'm sorry. What you're telling me, bottom line, is that you're a free member, and you want LL to hand you free L$ for playing their game because you don't want to do any of the things available to earn them and your sales aren't going well. I sympathize with poor sales, but really, you can't blame merchants and land owners for those problems. No one is holding you under their thumb. Your existence on Second Life is totally under your control.

We're just discussing a potential solution to an existing problem: that LL stop giving free L$ to non-paying members. That's really pretty logical. I'm not saying that is what they should do... it's just one possible solution.

Glad you like the content. It's a great pleasure to provide it.

And yes, I do agree that there are some who truly cannot afford to buy L$. Not near the majority of basics, but some few. I have all sympathy for such ones. But I have to point this out: there are poor people in RL as well. And frankly, 50L a week doesn't go very far in SL. So while it doesn't mean an awful lot to an individual, the conglomerate of those payments is a hunk of L$ pouring into SL every week.

That total may indeed help sales, but it doesn't help the value of those sales if it causes a glut of L$ and forces the US$ value of the L$ to drop. So it's a Catch-22 thing.

Frankly, I don't know as LL is very likely to cut basic stippend. But it is a good question as to whether that stippend helps merchants in the long run-- or harms them. Do they increase sales enough to offset the devaluation of the L$? Hard to tell.

I think the sane thing to do at this time would be for LL to set the transfer rate of the L$ to a flat $2.50 / 1000 and then control the L$ flow by sensible means. That would make the merchants happy, the buyers would be satisfied that this is a fair value, and LL would gain better control of the market itself. It's the instability of the L$ that is causing all this rukkus in the first place. But, there have been loads of threads on that subject too. Bottom line: the market is unstable, and it's causing problems for the very people who pay for Second Life in the first place. If it weren't for those people... there would be no SL for Basics to enjoy.

1) I do work my ass off in SL every day. I have said this many times.

2) You quoted me totally out of context thereby making my post seem to be saying something it was not.

3) I have paid for this account. Free accounts were not available when I got this one.

4) I was not implying I can't make it in SL because of competition. I was simply stating that because of competition, when I have made no sales, I need that 50Ls for uploads so that I can put out a new product in order to be more competitive.

5) I have state a number of times that I DO play tringo. I do win at times and use those Ls for uploads and to pay rent when needed.

6) I don't have the extra cash to buy Ls whenever I need them. I have said that many times as well.

7) I stopped drinking years ago and have no desire to start again. Thank you

I'm fully aware of the discussion and all it entails. I don't agree that doing away with all basic stipends is a solution. At least not for those who paid for thier basic account.

9) I am a proprietor in RL so I have a pretty good idea of how marketing works.

10) I'm not angry at the moment. Just a bit tired of having to repeat myself.


Did I miss anything? Oh! I was just trying to say that those who have succeeded in building a business in SL that is profitable enough to at least support thier premium fee and tier fees (uploads, etc) seem to be the main ones advocating doing away with the basic stipend. Not all of them mind you. But enough of them so that it makes me think that there may be a hidden reason behind thier wanting to do away with basic stipend. Afterall, the more competition they have, the more likely sales will drop. Doing away with basic stipend for those accounts who actually had to pay for them is a way to cut down on the competition before it ever gets off the ground. I'm not saying that is without doubt what they are thinking, but, it is always a possibility.


Anyway... after you have had a chance to read some of my other posts regarding this matter, I think you'll understand better my position on it. Like I have said before... sure, it would be nice to sell enough of my products to pay for a premium account and tier, I have to get to that point first. It is my love of building that keeps me in SL, not the fact that I might be able to pay my way by building and selling. All I am trying to get others to see is if they take away basic stipends, those who are on fixed incomes, or lower incomes, and can't afford to pay premium and tier fees, will be forced to be paupers in SL or leave. I just don't think that is right nor fair. To put it bluntly, it reeks of discrimination.

Hopefully I haven't said anything that offends. That is not my intention. I'd just like for others to see it from a POV they may not have even considered.

Hear! hear! Since I stopped worrrying about money, I've been enjoying SL a lot more...

I know you're only saying it's possible, but I think more likely, it's just easy to forget how you used to rely on the stipend before you made enough not to need it.

That might be true if I hadn't already been in SL for six months and finding myself having to still depend on it at times. Who knows? In another six months I may be able to pay for premium and tier with my earnings and not need the stipend. On the other hand, I may end up being just another one of the poor, huddled, wandering masses of SL. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

After seeing your builds, I don't think you'll be waiting another six months

Awwwwww..... Thank you!

But get your stuff on SLExchange and SL Boutique you slacker. Till you do, I'm not listening to any complaints!

Oh and Selene, you don't show up in find until you check 'include mature content', you need to uncheck the mature box. I'm posting this rather than sending a PM as it's a common mistake. A whole lot of potential customers won't even see you.

I think we should go back to havign to pay $10 for accounts. I had to pay $10 for mine, and now your sayign I shouldn't get anythnig for it? I'm one of those people who lieks flat fee and hates paying every month, and know you want to take away what little money I get. Tears on my pillow.

The mature boxes aren't checked on either location. I just looked. And you're right. If I uncheck the mature box on Find/Places DnS Designs doesn't show up and it should. Would that fact that both locations are in mature sims have anything to do with it or is this another one of LL's screw ups?

I'm going to get my coffee and wake up. You're right. I do need to get my stuff on the exchange. I'll have to look into the boutique. Need to find the url for it. So.... it's time to take a break from posting and helping JEVN users... oh well.

Slacker huh.... if only you knew. LOL

back when new accounts wer $10 i considered the startup money as a payback. Basicly your paying for money when you make the account. But i don't see it like that anymore. The lindens are basicly giving this money away to everyone who makes a account. Yea its only a few dollars but still.

Actually Cheyenne you are proving yourself still either hysterically wrong, as this would cause the majority of markets for new products to dissappear ( most ppl do not buy L's from that richest 1% of the residents who post this kind of scare tactic), or you are proving yourself to still be the stubborn little tool of whomever ( and we all pretty much know who) is trying to release large blocks of L to devalue L's, point fingers in the wrong direction and control or take over the money market. Suffice it to say that either way your methods are highly transparent. And also this opinion is dead wrong for anyone who knows anything about finances. Want to stimulate the economy? Put more money in the buyer's hands. Then as thier purchasing power goes up thier desire for new things outpaces it adn they buy yet more L's, thereby increasing demand. Reverse psychology does work in finances.

Actually that's because we are on mature land, which of course is a necessity for when we get into the skin game and clothing markets as well.

...and that would be you, right?

Look in the mirror. All you are doing is trying ot create a panic and point at stipends as being the cause when they are not. The actual cause is the people releasing large blocks all at once cheap on e-bay etc to indulge in a practice known as market fixing. You put the blame elsewhere, get your way adn figure it'll increase demand for L's, when actually it will cause more businesses to start failing, ppl to leave, nd ultimately even less deamdn for L's than there is now. I still say you want to do away with basic stipend then LL needs to hire more liasions and give them power to enforce a minimum wage for all employees of in world businesses with stiff penalties on the businesses that do not comply. Because ocne you take away the only income of those basics...which comprise the largest body of customers in SL, you take away any and all ablility they6 ahve to purchase from others, unless another form of income is provided. This does not mean more jobs..there are plenty in world already. It does however mean employers being forced to pay them rather than say tips only and house cut. Or work for trade. But then of course this could be yet more scre and market fixing to try to set the stage for a new unbacked currency.

Are you a basic account member Dmitri?

* Hears birds chirping *

...Not very proud of it are you?

I rest my case

Some people do sleep you know. He's already gone to bed and I'm headed there myself. It is after 3am here after all and we have been up way too late working as usual.

1) It's none of your business but...

2) basic, although I used to be premium and a landowner and paid a very healthy tier...

3) there's this little thing I do on occasion called sleep since...

a) it does take some brain power to actually work in SL creating new things nad is much more rewarding than listenning to "friends" tell me to stay up all night and misinform people to control the market.

b) since you keep pointing fingers at something being the cause of the economic problem that is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the real reason...your words adn questions jsut are not that important to me.


Suggestion, try creating something in world...OTHER THAN PANIC!. LOL

No, suggesting that people who don't PAY to play shouldn't earn a single $.



Pay for a premium membership?



If they want a freebie game, yes.



What a GREAT idea!!!

I see that birds of a feather flock together. You are quick to quote, attack and make insinuations about others, but when confronted and questioned the best you can come up with is...

"it's none of your business."

Try politely answering a question sometime. You might find that not everyone is out to get you and perhaps all we are trying to engage in is friendly debate.



See that. That wasn't so hard was it? You'll find that no matter the question, there may always be a pathetic way to couch your answer with an excuse that can somehow imply a justification for what youre doing, as oposed to accepting responsibility what your are not.



Reading your posts I actually feel for you and don't mind paying a premium subscription so that you can play for free.

I only wish you would put as much effort into appreciating those that pay so that folks like you could play for free, that you put into constantly and incessantly whining about a measly L$50, or what amounts to fifteen cents...

Show a little respect for those that are actually sacrificing their own finances and paying their way, and in so doing supporting SL and the entertainment needs of those like you, who simply arent.

Cheyenne-

SecondLife may seem like an amusement park, where you get charged at the gate, charged for every ride, every attraction, every concession stand and then someone picks your pocket on your way out.... but it doesn't operate that way.

Do you want SL to resemble that model more closely?

SecondLife operates more like an urban shopping mall. Many stores with merchants that pay rent to LL, and some offices, and condos in the property as well. Some people don't pay to be on the property, usually they're the customers of the businesses that do pay rent. It works. Stipends are... well... discount/incentive coupons.

Dmitri clearly disagreed with your original post and spoke up. And while I don't necessarily like how he made his point... your response completely avoided addressing any of his issues and just attacked him instead. Way to foster open discussion.

And, to sink to your level... your response was condescending enough to negate whatever respect you feel you deserve for 'paying his way'. Do you try to boss postal workers around and when they refuse, you point out that your taxes pay their salary at they should thank you for it? Does doing so get you 'special' treatment?

--
I've had a bad day... and your post was a convenient distraction.