Ginko Financial

Well, it's a balance you have to make. I try to invest in ethical funds. I go around trying to convince everyone to give up their cars.

But, in the end, I do sell my soul a little bit a time like everyone else in the world. I'll go to mcdonalds every few months. I'll eat chicken knowing full well what a miserable existence they are forced to lead. You can't obsess about every little detail otherwise you'd quickly go mad.

I'm just saying I'm not going to sell my soul as cheaply as people are over a few L$ with ginko.

I am absolutely in agreement with Anshe on this, and applaud her speaking out.

On 09-18-2005 I posted this:

(/130/c6/62005/1.html#post647544)



But you can't convince people easily. Greed, or maybe a sort of fascination, drives them on to destruction. Maybe this is one of the few instances where LL should intervene, but almost certainly the money has already fled beyond their power of recovery. The perpetrator would merely slide off the spike by claiming that wicked Lindens had crashed his perfectly good scheme by interfering unjustifiably, and collapsing confidence.

Best to just let it work its way through to the end ? Maybe it's the only way people learn, and that the blame can be clearly pinned where it belongs. Can't be long now. In fact, with this thread, perhaps the time IS now.

All just my opinions, of course. He might have discovered a diamond mine.

regaurdless of her motives, i'd like to say thanks to Anshe for bringing this up..

i'm just a little fish in a massive ocean.. but, i would never invest in ginko.. for the two obvious reasons that they don't disclose and have no form of insurance.... you want to invest in ginko? go right ahead, but don't complain or expect any pity/money if they go bankrupt and take your money with them..

as far as LL backing up Ginko, they're not doing it which is great. and why should they? they're not your parents, if you make a bad decision in where you invest money.. you get to eat it!

you want to take a risk and invest money into ginko? great. do it. but remember, it's a risk, you have no idea what you're funding money to, and you've no idea if you'll get your money back..

Good Luck all you Ginko Investors!

Amen, hell yes, good on ya, mate!

I think I've only ever had like L$25K in Ginko, but I'm willing to risk it now. I'll put my investments in Ginko up against the run on the bank by the more timid elements. Sure, I might lose money, but then again, I might make money, too.

ll make a big deposit tonight. Now if only I could interest them in connecting my airport sim to their city.

As an interesting thought though, have you considered the entire game itself? If LL closed tomorrow, what would anyone get back from their investments in buying sims? buying land? or even buying L$? Nothing. Because that is what the TOS states. We as the residents have no security collateral in our investments. And those who read it and continue on anyway, have been made aware, and choose to risk the investment for whatever personal means we wish.

I think Anshe could have simply posted the information and not made any comments, allowing everyone to draw their own conclusions. This would have caused less sensationalism. But since she chose to express her opinion, and that is what she is doing, others formed sides and circled the wagons. I'm not on any particular side, not knowing Anshe at all other than buying some land from her, and not knowing the Ginko people at all other than having some funds with them. But it seems that this could be better summed up as:

Anshe found out information that caused her to be concerned.
She notified everyone via the forum of the information she had, plus her opinion on it.
Ginko posted a reply with relevant information, and pointed out that it is indeed a risk.
This risk is listed in their TOS clearly.

Therefore ... Anshe wanted to inform the community of a potential problem. She did. Whether she has ulterior motives or not remains to be seen. Ginko responded. Whether they have ulterior motives or not remains to be seen. Good old fashioned stalemate.

I, for one, will keep buying land from Anshe and keep depositing money in Ginko until one or both burn me. Why? Because I don't distrust people until someone takes advantage of me. I've been burned several times in my life, but it doesn't change the fact that I try to look for the good in everyone and everything.

Besides, Anshe has land I want, and Ginko pays me to invest .. Above all else, it's a game and if I lose, eh, well, I can always pick up my pieces and try again. I wish both of them the best in their business endeavors.

... and why isnt there a *shrug* icon! LOL ...

I think that, as empathic human beings, most of us would find it very hard to believe anyone here could coldly set out to steal from us. Particularly if they seem so nice and polite.

Nicholas's explanatory defence is that he is beneficially linking together two financial worlds hugely different in trust levels, interest rates, and loan availability. So different, and normally so isolated from each other, that his unique "bridge" can profit hugely from the usually-unachievable linkage. This is not entirely impossible, and is certainly worth a bit of thought.

But just in case it is a scam, I'm going to post you a very disturbing glimpse of how unpleasantly and unexpectedly a real scam can end.

My next post relates to an internet scam, not totally different from a ponzi, in which numerous people were lured in by a charming and polite organisation promising them good returns etc etc. The organisers finally scarpered with US$5,000,000 of the punters money. They paid out what was promised meticulously right up to the end.

One day they killed it without warning, and sent every investor the email which follows. I found it on matrixwatch.org. You'll see why posting it is not breach of any law - the originators brag that they legally don't exist.

Here it comes, next post. Sorry its a bit long. I'm posting it rather than linking to it because its one of those links that only gets you to the front page. (thinks...there must be an easy way round that...). For me it makes it all seem frighteningly more real, and more possible.

Note: HYIP = "High Yield Investment Program"

Here goes......

Dear Invex Ltd. Players,

This is a long message and will be the last news you will hear from us... until we open our next HYIP
We want, kindly, recommend you stop losing your time by looking after us. Anyway, for the cyber detectives, here is how we worked.


1- The basis is having 100% false ID documents. For $200 you get a really nice looking pack of documents, even nicer than legal ones

2- We rented a nice apartment with fast internet in a nice city near the sea, with false documents. We then bought a new desktop computer and a new laptop, installed some fresh programs.

3- We opened a bank account with false documents, put some cash on the account, and got a nice true debit card.

4- We opened e-gold accounts and funded them from the bank account above.

5- A bit later we opened e-bullion accounts, funded by... you, idiots who "invested"


OK? Now we have e-gold, internet, a place to sleep, eat etc, all without possibility to track us. A major question was "Must we open a real company". We decided that NO, as people are so stupid that they believe all what they read. And you know what? It is true Invex Ltd. and Lomax Group Corp. are pure fantasy


Okay, let's go to work now!


1- Opening a domain name and booking a server at the katzglobal scammers' best place, paying with e-gold.

2- Later, booking a dedicated server and paying with... the debit card coming from the bank account above

3- Renting Prolexic, and paying them by bank transfers from.... an e-gold exchanger The gold came from YOU idiots who "invested" !


To specialists who want to track us by the IP addresses, we kindly recommend you to use Google and look at JAP, Freenet, I2P, TORR, etc.
You will understand that our IP come from anywhere in the world, beeing chained between servers who cannot track them.
And even if so, the last IP address, the place where we lived, was this nice appartment near the sea, that we left some weeks ago Oh, the computers were given to a charity, after the hard disks were physically deleted


Other pros say "Let's track the money"! Great idea, but don't forget that even the [beep] muslim terrorists cannot be tracked by the special services


How did we withdraw all your nice donations? That's easy, thanks to mygcard who supplied us hundreds of anonymous debit cards that our friedns and us used in various countries! Alain Vignard from mygcard received $20.000 cash in hands for helping us to find the ATM with no "$800/day limits", and telling us how to use the cards at the best. Well, Alain tried to scam us later, but that is another story

We also used bank transfers from the best exchangers, who have no problem at all sending $100,000 or $200,000 every 3 days to bank accounts in Panama, the BVI, etc Nice offshore places outside the EU and the US Track the money there, dear friends!

Oh, about exchangers, we worked with one of them from Australia, and where a bit afraid at the beginning, as he wrote on his website that he "verifies ALL data" from his clients. LOL ! His fee is 2%, we kindly offered him 2% more "to preserve our privacy" Look at our dialogue by email:

- HIM: 2% more is a good offer, but is your gold clean? We don't want to work with scammers.

- US: Of course, what are you thinking? We are honest businessmen and just want to keep a low profile.

- HIM: OK, i can see you are not scammers, just send me the gold and 4% fee instead of the regular 2%.


Thank you mister G. ))



As I am in a very good mood, I will also explain you something: Most of the biggest HYIP are run by us, a professional team. And when other scammers try to enter our market, BING! If they are interesting people we try to buy them, if not DDOS attacks make them shutdown To be sure our rating is the best one, we also pay the admins of a few monitoring programs, including the biggest and "most reliable" (LOOOOL) one!

Our business is to make money. We use 20% of the money we get to help poor and disabled people around each of us, 20% other is given to some "political" associations that fight against ISLAM (Hey guys from the Emirates, Bahrein, Kuwait, etc etc, did you read this? THANK YOU , and the balance is for us.

We have currently a dozen of HYIP running, are going to close some of them, and of course to open new ones! We are working like this since a few years, and all is working fine!


But you know, it IS possible to make profit from HYIP: Just do it QUICKLY! Look: [email]teamaaronshara@bellsouth.net[/email] made $6,580 profit with us, including the commissions they got by sending YOU IDIOTS, to Invex. These people are really scumbags: They are making profit by making you lose!


As a clever guy told in some forum, "there were no guarantees, so no need to cry". YEP! We NEVER gave any guarantee to ANYBODY (unless Titanium plans, and you should notice that THESE guys do NOT cry on your forum, try to guess why...!), we even recommended those who ask for guarantees to go to their local bank They didn't? THEIR CHOICE!

When reading your forum and others, we really laugh! So, most of you were already scammed by other HYIP? By our HYIP maybe Anyway, it seems that you don't understand what a teenager is able to understand! So, you continue to "invest" here and there, and that is good... FOR US! For you, I am not sure When I see a GREAT SPECIALIST, the "Andrewunknown", proudly saying that he lost $40,000 into Invex but that he will recover from other HYIP, WE ARE LAUGHING, FALLING FROM OUR CHAIRS )))) Moreover in his list of "no ponzi", LOL, some of them are from us ))))


Now some personal messages:


- EMAIL REMOVED threatened us to send "the FBI and the CIA against us" ) better you keep your energy to work and recover your $600 ONLY that you sent us, than saying such BS )))


- "AROBASE", "LUCIEN", "IGOR": YOU will be refunded partially, we contacted you some hours ago.

- "vanderschalk-group" is a clever guy: He made about $45k profit from Invex

- "ANATOLI" is the best one: he made about $170k profit from Invex, even with what we kept from him when we closed!

- lewisfargo, caro, anhvn06, ydna, janhkok, profitondemand, HIPsyD, promax, brewmanau, adtype13sg, , Johnnyslide, etc etc are also in big profit (Between $10k and $50k) from Invex.

Feel free to find and contact them to ask to share ))


Well that's all, folks! We are anyway in touch with a few of you through other HYIP, under other names of course! Good luck


Shalom!
Renaud, Kathy, Oliver, David

Guys, 72% yearly just doesn't make a Ponzi. Any accomplished Forex trader can make 72%. Billion dollar corporations and funds can't make returns like that with such a large dollar amount. But amounts like, say, 1 million USD or less are perfect for highly profitable trading.

I too am a cynical sort, and I have to regard the original post as an attempt to cause a 'run' on Ginko.

I saw Ginko shortly after I came inworld, was skeptical of their claims and as such haven't invested. That said, I am also highly skeptical of those that seem overly concerned with my welfare.

Perhaps I'm reading more into this than there should be, but it does seem odd.

I'd like to take a shot at an explanation.

Supporters are investors who are profiting and are satisfied with the level of service provided by Ginko to date.

Detractors are would be investors who are afraid to take the risk and are therefore not profiting. As such, they may be envious and would like to see Ginko fail in an effort to alleviate the daily pain experienced by the thought of the investment gains missed out on.

Then again, maybe they do care

This is joking, right ? You do all see that ?

Is it any worse than the image promoted by all the clubs, dungeons, erotic stores, casinos, and people blatently selling that which they picked up in a freebie pack from Yadni's?

Did none of you like the "Invex Ltd" letter. Am I alone in finding it a fascinating, if disturbing, insight ?

*Comforts Ellie after her seed did not germinate*

Maybe disillusion is part of growing up, even for a virtual 3d platform.

I'm not claiming that Ginko is it, but perhaps just one BIG SCAM is inevitable to get us settled, and it will go down in SL history as half myth, half bogeyman, and a warning to the gullible in following SL generations.

Could be amusing from the sidelines, in a bizarre and slightly sadistic sort of way. If there are any sidelines. Depends how big it is when it comes

Thanks Hiro. Is it just me, or does that sound vaguely sexual ?

Well we are all wonderfully different. Some of us look at this as an amazing investment opportunity. Some would draw parallels with other schemes and stay well away. Some of us secretly suspect its the the 2nd, tho clinging and hoping on for the first in denial as we plough our money in.

It's an area I personally wouldn't invest in, but that's just a risk I am personally not willing to take. Some are. One thing for sure, this is no different to any other part of SL where one person calls for the trust of another, or many others. Even tho that person can walk out at any moment.

haha it wasn't meant to be. It was referring to the scattering of your posts, and the way you plant them so lovingly Would you prefer it if it was sexual?

I skipped a lot of this, so I might be echoing someone else.

But...why does this have to conform to RL interest rates? I mean this is SL, the L$, it could be invested in things inside of SL (since it is also an economy, and one where you can stand to make a lot of money fairly quickly if you're good).
I mean, if you could get a dedicated team of Tringo players you could make a load of cash for free by leaching off of other people's pots. And that's a small mover in the SL world.
It's entirely possible that the interest rate can be sustainable.

And then, how many people actually withdraw their money from their Ginko accounts? How many do so frequently? How many have quit playing SL and just left their L$ in there? To be realistic, the full amount of money placed into Ginko accounts may never be needed, since it's unlikely that every Ginko financial account holder is just going to up and leave with all their cash.

I don't think interest rates like that would be offered if there weren't some chance of being able to pay it when needed, and unless this thread encourages a ton of people to withdraw their money, I think it's unlikely that the interest rate will be impossible to pay up. In fact, I suspect they make a very tidy profit, possibly a huge one from it, like real world banks do.
Just that this one isn't based in the real-world, it's SL, so the numbers can afford to be different, because there are fundamental differences that shape it in a way.

@Elex: Thank you! Very clear! I have been recommended to look into Ginko by a friend and this whole thread was raising "FUD" in ME. I like the prospectus idea cos then I can review it with my business advisor in sl. Again, thank you!

@Shadow: I call this (see bold below) the "trust noone, have fun anyway, and by your actions you shall be known" sl ruleset. Your strategy has actually been studied, named, and shown to be the soundest long-term strategy in a mixed community of cooperative and non-cooperative citizens. It is my strategy too

*g* Darnit! My system has been uncovered! LOL I'm an odd individual, with sometimes antiquated beliefs in honor and loyalty. I try not to hurt anyone else, while making my way through the world as best as I can. Not out for profit, although I won't turn it down. I just want to be able to have a good time and make other people happy as well.

Wow, so I guess that makes you a scumbag trying to rip apart a competitor and a liar. Unless of course, your SL enterprises have been lucrative enough for you to lease however many dozens of sims you have from LL.

I have no connection with Ginko - it sounded a little too good to be true to me, but then again, I've not read anybody complaining about them on this forum except for you (and of course when I say "you" I mean AnsheChung.com the firm and not the avatar with a similar name). Contrariwise, I've seen plenty of posts from alleged customers of AnsheChung.com alleging deceptive business practices by AnsheChung.com.

It really is a farking shame that you've been the vehicle and primary catalyst for allowing a virtual world with such potential to fall into a gutter of crass comercialism that makes three card monte games look noble.

Ick.

It may not be a ponzi. I mean I could collect Lindens from all of you, convert it to real cash and take it to Vegas and try and win the World Series of Poker. Were I to accomplish this feat, I would in fact have a much greater return than 72%. However, odds are I will lose it all.

What each and every one of you need to realize is that yes, it's possible that Ginko's investments could return greater than 72%. However, any investment that could have that big a return also has a much, much greater chance of completely failing. There's zero reason to think that this time it's different.

Even the most cursory look at how the Federal Reserve and banking regulations serve to keep the US economy liquid and stable shows that a little oversight is not a bad thing. Someone who doesn't want to give even the slightest insight into where your money (and remember - it is your money he's using) because he doesn't need, as he put it, another mother or father looking over his shoulder means you need to ask yourself how much your willing to lose because you could lose it all. Of course if you view anything in SL including SL itself as an investment you have to ask that same question.

Word.