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Ginko Financial |
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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11-17-2005 09:04
Yes its a nice figure, you choose to keep it in linden $ other people choose to invest it elsewhere, theres nothing stopping you cashing that out and leaving land owners without money too, so do you guarantee to pay back all owners, the amount that they payed you for their estate parcel? _____________________
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Casey Benton
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 39
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11-17-2005 09:05
So, Nicholas, where are those 16 mio L$? How much did you invest in what? What revenue have you generate sofar? Can you proove it to us, or at least to Linden Lab? You better answer us and give us one detailed account ASAP instead of insult our intelligence with silly "I don't want mamma look across my shoulder" phrases. I warn you. I am not going watch some crook take whole SL economy hijack and scam the newbies. You better show us the whereabouts of every single L$ you took or I will end this. It might cost me millions, but I don't care. This kinda scam goes so 100% against every sense of morality in my bones that I forget my business, forget my money, forget the PR and just hunt you down. Where is that money? I'm sorry, what? No, seriously, WHAT? You're not an investor, which makes your demands suspect in the least. Secondly, Ginko has no responsibility to disclose investments, to you or anybody else. In fact, as an actual customer, I DEMAND that Ginko run their business the way they want. DEMAND, I say! Third, Nicholas has outright SAID that if someone doesn't trust him, to withdraw their money. That's the single most hardcore thing a pseudo-bank can say. He's all but inviting a run on the bank, just to weed out the timid elements. Finally, that was a threat if I ever saw one. It's exactly why I don't do business with AnsheChung.com, but DO do business with Ginko. What kind of PR do you expect to get if you crush another SL business? What kind of image does THAT POST give of Second Life, since you're so concerned? I agree, I don't want the likes of you looking out for my well being, especially brandishing your own baseball bat of sociopolitical pressure. |
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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11-17-2005 09:20
A few points for anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread (like me) and who have not made up their mind:
1) If any financial institution--of any kind--were able to reliably offer a 72% annual rate of return, money would be flowing into them from every investor on the planet. No bank, stock, bond, mutual fund, commodity could compete. 2) It makes no sense to claim that you can get a higher rate of return with a small investment than with large investments (as has was asserted upthread). Can you think of any business where you get a better deal with small amounts of money than with large ones? 3) Anshe Chung and Ellie Edo both agree that Ginko is most likely a ponzi scheme. When is the last time you heard of them agreeing on something? The sound you are hearing in the background is not Hell freezing over--it is the clue train passing you by. 4) SL is an ideal medium for a small-scale ponzi scheme (sometimes called a "pyramid schemes"  . Everyone here has agreed to a Terms of Service document that claims Lindens are the legal equivalent of monopoly money. Everyone here is anonymous--unless (like Anshe) they have made their real names public. The risk of prosecution for running a ponzi scheme is infinitesimal.5) Basic to the operation of any ponzi scheme is that all investors get paid with a smile--right up till the point where operators vanish into the night. 6) Please read and learn about this type of scam: * http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme * http://www.worldbank.org/html/prddr/trans/so97/albania2.htm |
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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11-17-2005 09:28
I'm sorry, what? No, seriously, WHAT? You're not an investor, which makes your demands suspect in the least. She is an investor, this is what everyone seems to be forgetting. She has a significant investment in the SL economy. Ginko has what, a couple of islands and a couple thousand L$? It's truly sad how blind everyone is here. Mostly sad though that LL is just not doing anything about it. |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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11-17-2005 09:28
A few points for anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread (like me) and who have not made up their mind: Wow... sure sounds like you made up your mind. LOL |
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Travis Bjornson
Registered User
Join date: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
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11-17-2005 09:39
After more than 10 pages on this thread and several posts from the Ginko owner, does anyone actually have any clue where those 16 mio L$ went that Nicholas took from people and cashed out? Look, those L$ would *have* to be cashed out if Nick was to invest them in the real world in order to generate a profit for Ginko's customers, right? So, Nicholas, where are those 16 mio L$? How much did you invest in what? What revenue have you generate sofar? That is a reasonable question. But any explanation he gives us could be a lie. And he really doesn't owe an explanation to LL. I warn you ... I will end this Anshe's getting pissed. I'm not saying that Nick is or isn't being honest here. I'm only saying that I don't think the evidence you've presented supports your suspicions. |
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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11-17-2005 09:42
She is an investor, this is what everyone seems to be forgetting. She has a significant investment in the SL economy. Ginko has what, a couple of islands and a couple thousand L$? It's truly sad how blind everyone is here. Mostly sad though that LL is just not doing anything about it. Well two islands and 2 million l$ across 3 accounts was said althought the leader board showed one account had gained 500,000l$ in the last week, she has investment in the sl economy and ginko has investment in the rl economy, either of which can go up or down, since gom closed anshes cash reserve has shrunk by 6 mil lindens, and can she now afford to buy out all those residents on hers sims at the amount they paid and is that amount guaranteed? _____________________
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Flyingroc Chung
:)
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 329
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11-17-2005 09:43
Wow... sure sounds like you made up your mind. LOL I think he was saying that he was masochistic enough to be still reading this thread (like me). But not that he has not made up his mind. _____________________
Try your luck at Heisenberg Casino.
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Travis Bjornson
Registered User
Join date: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 188
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11-17-2005 09:48
If any financial institution--of any kind--were able to reliably offer a 72% annual rate of return, money would be flowing into them from every investor on the planet. No bank, stock, bond, mutual fund, commodity could compete. Disagree. There are excellent investment opportunities that 99.9% of the world simply doesn't know about. It makes no sense to claim that you can get a higher rate of return with a small investment than with large investments (as has was asserted upthread). Can you think of any business where you get a better deal with small amounts of money than with large ones? It's well known among stock traders and mutual fund managers that when a fund gets too large, it becomes difficult to trade aggressively. That's because you either have so much money in each stock that the liquidity of the stock is too low, or because you have too many stocks to keep track of. Small mutual funds with excellent performance (50% to 120% in *some* years) close to new investors when new investors start flocking in. |
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Casey Benton
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 39
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11-17-2005 09:48
She is an investor, this is what everyone seems to be forgetting. Not and investor, in GINKO. And if I'm wrong on that, then for the love of Pete, WHY? Withdraw. If they can't cover the withdraw, THEN we'll have a heck of a thread to read! Wait, no, we WON'T, because there's no expectation of being able to withdraw! It says so right in the Ginko TOS! As for 'investment in SL economy' didn't she say her investment was $9.95 a month? Can't play both sides of that coin, I'm afraid. *I* have an investment in the economy too. And, franky, Anshe's business doing well is NOT my concern. In fact, I rather resent having her affecting my SL experience AT ALL. If AnsheChung.com went out of business tomorrow, I wouldn't care. Now, people will say that her cashing out would ruin the economy and bring SL down for good. Fine. I'll lose my investment in my estate. I'll lose my monopoly money. I'll lose all the time I put into this GAME, and I'll lose a couple hundred dollar equivilent. *IF* it collapses. I don't think the economy is that fragile. If Anshe went out of business tomorrow, I can guarantee you that the day after there would be a number of little land barons offering Anshe-Displacement discounts to new renters. Just because it's a (relatively) big business doesn't mean it automagically gets the moral authority to police other businesses. But none of that has SQUAT to do with Ginko. If soemone doesn't want to business with them, then don't. I'm sure they won't miss the business. But don't say it's for the good of the economy that they be shut down. I could say the same thing for casinos (could lead to gambling addiction. Bad PR = Bad for the economy), adult shops (could lead to perverts stalking me. Bad for the economy), and clubs (degrade sim performance. Bad for the economy in the sim). |
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Carl Metropolitan
Registered User
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
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11-17-2005 09:51
Wow... sure sounds like you made up your mind. LOL I'm sorry if the placement of the parenthetical clause in the first sentence of my post was confusing to you. Let me clarify. I posted, "A few points for anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread (like me) and who have not made up their mind." The "like me" clause refers to the phrase "anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread" and not to "who have not make up their mind." If I had intended the "like me" clause to apply to the whole sentence, I would have written, "A few points for anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread and who have not made up their mind (like me)." So--to summarize: 1) I have made up my mind; I believe Ginko can not be legitimate with the rates of return they claim to offer, and 2) I am masochistic enough to still be reading this thread. All clear now? |
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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11-17-2005 10:03
I hate to say it, but my initial fears only solidify. This whole thing looks like one black hole where money disappears in. Fantastic, you've got lotsa L$ in your game account whose value backed by the full faith and credit of Linden Labs. Now, even assuming that those mystical L$ continue to exist tomorrow (or the next day, month, etc.) anshechung.com is under no obligation at all to refund anything to anyone for any purpose; the Lindens have explicitly, contractually disavowed themselves as having any liability or interest in transactions between anshechung.com and any other entity and I'm sure pursuit of anshechung.com in the event of contractual default would be a fool's errand at best. If you really want to have people believe that you are putting your money where your mouth is, then cash out those valueless L$, buy a surety bond with an internationally trusted bonding agency and post the information about it on your website. Failing that, you are just as fly-by-night as my new "First Malachi's Bank of SL" (motto: "We care about your deposits" or any other financial service in SL.I'm putting my bets on anshechung.com not willing to post a surety but will nevertheless continue to lambast anyone who dare offer a potentially competing service. Ick, again. _____________________
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-17-2005 10:05
Finally, that was a threat if I ever saw one. It's exactly why I don't do business with AnsheChung.com, but DO do business with Ginko. What kind of PR do you expect to get if you crush another SL business? What kind of image does THAT POST give of Second Life, since you're so concerned? I agree, I don't want the likes of you looking out for my well being, especially brandishing your own baseball bat of sociopolitical pressure. This is actually not the first time Anshe has done this type of thing. She waged a campaign to paint Gigas (owners of secondserver.net and a competitor in the web shopping and land businesses) as having unsafe vending machines that were "spying" on people. Ask yourself a question, and consider the source - how many threads have you seen questioning Anshe's business practices vs. Ginko? The fact that Ginko is about to launch a web shopping service and also competes as a financial service with SLExchange is no coincidence. Anshe is very shrewd, and has always used PR as a weapon. She also in no way addressed the fact that her pulling out of SL would cripple the economy. There are no protections against that, and anyone who owns deeds to land on her private islands is taking a risk, not to mention the effect it would have on the price of land and the value of the L$. You have zero guarantee that a major shift in the land market would not cause Anshe to pull out and recoup as much money as she could. If she cancelled her islands, there is no way Linden Lab can force her to pay back anyone - you just have to trust that she would. While I doubt she would pull out it is still a very real risk as the climate could change dramatically if Linden Lab implemented some policy that was detrimental to her business. What amount of risk someone is willing to take is in the eyes of the risk taker. The only people complaining about this are people who aren't even invested in it. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Aaron Levy
Medicated Lately?
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,147
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11-17-2005 10:05
I'm sorry if the placement of the parenthetical clause in the first sentence of my post was confusing to you. Let me clarify. I posted, "A few points for anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread (like me) and who have not made up their mind." The "like me" clause refers to the phrase "anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread" and not to "who have not make up their mind." If I had intended the "like me" clause to apply to the whole sentence, I would have written, "A few points for anyone masochistic enough to still be reading this thread and who have not made up their mind (like me)." So--to summarize: 1) I have made up my mind; I believe Ginko can not be legitimate with the rates of return they claim to offer, and 2) I am masochistic enough to still be reading this thread. All clear now? Wow... you're so smart Carl... teach me more, I just can't wait!!! |
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kavak Kolache
sir dingleberry
Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 52
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i believe anshe is toatally out of place with this
11-17-2005 10:07
After more than 10 pages on this thread and several posts from the Ginko owner, does anyone actually have any clue where those 16 mio L$ went that Nicholas took from people and cashed out? I hate to say it, but my initial fears only solidify. This whole thing looks like one black hole where money disappears in. One big Ponzi scheme bubble growing and growing until enough people realize what it is and the whole thing burst. Your money gone, forever, minus 100% interest  Now I have to say, I have one vested interest that this thing better ends sooner than later. It is the same vested interest anyone should have who is invested in the Second Life economy, directly or indirectly. One Ponzi scheme of this magnitute destroys one incredible amount of value and eventually also trust in the Second Life economy. Maybe 20 mio? 50 mio? 100 mio? 1 billion? The bigger this bubble grows, the bigger the crash will be when people realize they can never get their money back. The result will be very bad press for Second Life and Linden Lab and many piss off people calling for Philip to "just create some Linden$". Maybe he will have to give in and we all pay for it with inflation, removal of stipends or higher tier fee. In any case: what is bad for SL economy is also bad for the community! And, surprise surprise, Anshe Chung is also part of this community. So, Nicholas, where are those 16 mio L$? How much did you invest in what? What revenue have you generate sofar? Can you proove it to us, or at least to Linden Lab? You better answer us and give us one detailed account ASAP instead of insult our intelligence with silly "I don't want mamma look across my shoulder" phrases. I warn you. I am not going watch some crook take whole SL economy hijack and scam the newbies. You better show us the whereabouts of every single L$ you took or I will end this. It might cost me millions, but I don't care. This kinda scam goes so 100% against every sense of morality in my bones that I forget my business, forget my money, forget the PR and just hunt you down. Where is that money? what gives ansche the right to accuse anyone of anything illegal or hurting sl economy if this was the case phillip would immediatly suspend it i NEVER asked for nor wanted ansche to be the appointed one to look out for sl economy and name and i dont think anyone else asked for nor expected this responsibility of her either she makes alot of money by buying land from people for a LOT LESS then its actually worth has anyone ever looked into HER business practice i always respected ansche for what shes done here but with this single ost shes taken all of that away no ones ever asked bill gates to be president no one asked ansche to be a linden nor run our world |
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
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11-17-2005 10:23
Withdraw. If they can't cover the withdraw, THEN we'll have a heck of a thread to read! The only thing it take is somebody more trustworthy offer higher interest rate for some time. Then we will all know, won't we? 1.2% on 18 mio L$ is how much? 216K L$ per week? Or wait, won't it all crash after 2 mio L$ cash out already? So if it take 4 weeks, won't it just take less than 100K L$ to force the truth? Do I hear somebody run to the ATM? The first 15% may be lucky and still find some money. The rest? Who knows! _____________________
ANSHECHUNG.COM: Buy land - Sell land - Rent land - Sell sim - Rent store - Earn L$ - Buy L$ - Sell L$
SLEXCHANGE.COM: Come join us on Second Life's most popular website for shopping addicts. Click, buy and smile  |
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Bogart Bergson
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
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11-17-2005 10:33
The only thing it take is somebody more trustworthy offer higher interest rate for some time. Then we will all know, won't we? 1.2% on 18 mio L$ is how much? 216K L$ per week? Or wait, won't it all crash after 2 mio L$ cash out already? So if it take 4 weeks, won't it just take less than 100K L$ to force the truth? Do I hear somebody run to the ATM? The first 15% may be lucky and still find some money. The rest? Who knows! Um, is it just me or is Anshe trying her hardest to bring this bank down for no other reason than to bring it down? |
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kavak Kolache
sir dingleberry
Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 52
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hey since ansches so concerned about this
11-17-2005 10:34
why doesnt she just put all of her money in and see how long it takes to get it back out LMAO put your money where your mouth has been in someone elses business
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
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11-17-2005 10:35
Um, is it just me or is Anshe trying her hardest to bring this bank down for no other reason than to bring it down? If it is not one Ponzi scheme nobody has to worry, right? _____________________
ANSHECHUNG.COM: Buy land - Sell land - Rent land - Sell sim - Rent store - Earn L$ - Buy L$ - Sell L$
SLEXCHANGE.COM: Come join us on Second Life's most popular website for shopping addicts. Click, buy and smile |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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11-17-2005 10:35
Um, is it just me or is Anshe trying her hardest to bring this bank down for no other reason than to bring it down? It's not just you - it is completely transparent. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. |
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Nathan Stewart
Registered User
Join date: 2 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,039
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11-17-2005 10:38
Um, is it just me or is Anshe trying her hardest to bring this bank down for no other reason than to bring it down? Well thats what it seems like to me, she wont answer any questions regarding her own business, so for the third time anshe as you say you have the funds do you guarantee to refund the purchase price to the estate holders in all the sims anshechung.com owns _____________________
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
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11-17-2005 10:38
It's not just you - it is completely transparent. Right. Nicholas should provide us reliable information where that money has gone. Otherwise I might just trigger the test and see if it is still there _____________________
ANSHECHUNG.COM: Buy land - Sell land - Rent land - Sell sim - Rent store - Earn L$ - Buy L$ - Sell L$
SLEXCHANGE.COM: Come join us on Second Life's most popular website for shopping addicts. Click, buy and smile |
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
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11-17-2005 10:40
Well thats what it seems like to me, she wont answer any questions regarding her own business, so for the third time anshe as you say you have the funds do you guarantee to refund the purchase price to the estate holders in all the sims anshechung.com owns If you would have read the terms on our website, you would know that in case of liquidation, the proceeds from each sim sale would be proportionally distributed among the land owners in the sim. You are welcome to ask question about my business. But please be so kinda and start one separate thread _____________________
ANSHECHUNG.COM: Buy land - Sell land - Rent land - Sell sim - Rent store - Earn L$ - Buy L$ - Sell L$
SLEXCHANGE.COM: Come join us on Second Life's most popular website for shopping addicts. Click, buy and smile |
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kavak Kolache
sir dingleberry
Join date: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 52
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if i get booted from forums for my comment
11-17-2005 10:41
or worse the world its really obvious who runs sl ansche has been insulting nicholas and that may or may not qualify as an insult but i definitly think turnabout is fairplay quit challenging everybody ansche unless you want to do something about it
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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11-17-2005 10:42
If soemone doesn't want to business with them, then don't. I'm sure they won't miss the business. But don't say it's for the good of the economy that they be shut down. I could say the same thing for casinos (could lead to gambling addiction. Bad PR = Bad for the economy), adult shops (could lead to perverts stalking me. Bad for the economy), and clubs (degrade sim performance. Bad for the economy in the sim). Doubtless, Casey, it is illegal where you live. Would you like such a law revoked ? Here in SL, in some respects, we live in anarchy. In anarchy sometimes the biggest warlord, in absence of law, acts against blatant wrongdoers by force of his own strength. Not everybody approves, of course. And misjudgements can be made. But it's fascinating to see a glint of that same process here. Heaven knows how this will turn out. Will Nicholas cut and run ? My guess is yes, but I could be totally wrong. Or he could fold, the while blaming Anshe for causing his innocent collapse ? Which might be true, or a more likely a convenient blame avoidance strategy. We might never know for certain which. Or he could offer a phased reimbursement of whatever percentage he can recover, albeit reduced by premature withdrawal from actual genuine investments. After the "big threat", though, I doubt things can just go on the same. I can think of ways she could force him to show his hand. Can you ? Don't imagine it's an empty threat - I don't believe it is. |