Ginko Financial

... you think they -should- step up? Philip's exact statement, in context:

Nicholas Portocarrero: An avatar named Topa Herbst was in charge of managing our Casino in North Paris
Nicholas Portocarrero: He took off with the entire casino reserve, 200k
Nicholas Portocarrero: when I contacted support, I was told Linden Lab does not interfere in things like this
Nicholas Portocarrero: should I understand that to mean that no action would be taken against any of us in case of bank failure?
Philip Linden: Yes, today we interfere in nothing.

Yah, I'd be interested to see the result of your hotline there too, actually I'd probably be likely to consider using Ginko again if they're being secured and backed by the people who print the money.

Edit > Um, yah, Nicholas is saying that LL _won't_ step in, I got confused there too for a second.

I'm sorry, I guess I wasn't very clear on what I meant. See my last post on page 5.

I think blaze misread Nicholas' post. What I think Nicholas said was that Philip stated that he will stay out and not help investors.

Yes, he's saying that LL will not be responsible for the actions of residents who disappear with another resident's money. I don't see how LL could take that kind of responsibility without a lot of effort.

I would, but I'm afraid that my blowing bubbles, curling my hair, and doing my nails while discussing issues would beging to grate on the group because...

I WOULDN'T KNOW WHAT THE HECK YOU GUYS WERE TALKING ABOUT!

This position is interesting though, when it comes to things that might destroy credibility of the SL economy and platform as whole.

I do think Ginko should be a personal decision for everyone that invests in it. If he doesn't want to disclose precise details about everything he does, but can successfully pay such an interest rate for a year, than it is up to each person whether the high payout warrants the high risk of not knowing details. Ginko looks like it can make a great deal of money for people right now, but with that high payout comes high risk. It is just common sense.



Now for this quote. Once again, I wish to address this side topic in yet another thread. It will take much more than the failure of Anshe's business to make main land cheaper. I am a small competitor of Anshe, and I know of many other competitors of Anshe Chung. If she is making money like us, it is because the market supports the prices that land is being sold at. Most land can easily be purchased for 3.8$L/meter - 5.8$L/meter in the auctions. Land can easily be purchased for the same prices in Land Sales. In land sales, I have even seen non-mistake sales for as low as 2.0$L/meter. Now this weekend I sold 2/3 of my land for trying to sell at an average of 4.5$L/meter. Granted I was trying to make room for a deal someone was going to give me that fell through, but do you think I'll keep my price at 4.5$L/meter now? No, I'll raise the price because demand has shown that price is too cheap. Demand is what drives the price of land up. Without a monopoly, the price can't be forced to be expensive. If you want proof there is no monopoly, look into all the people selling land, and try to explain how Anshe with her small percentage of the land for sale acts as a monopoly. Land is a high risk, high payout investment. Anshe has proven to be very good at it. Overpricing land without exploitation will make you fail for obvious reasons. Anshe and most other land sellers are not using annoyance to get sales, so the assumption she is the reason for high land prices has no support. There is no sign of monopoly or exploitation.

Anshe I understand your concerns but really, you're also a very big player in SL and your actions, or lack thereof depending on the issue at hand, also have the potential to destroy credibility of the SL economy and platform as a whole.

Again, I do understand your concern. Your method of delivering your concern is questionable though.

Others deserve a chance without presumptively being perceived as scammers and con artists. Give others a chance please.

I agree on all three points. And as one of Anshe's customers, I have no complaints. I have issues with many of the posts on these forums, however.

Nice post and great points Dark..

I registered the domain and the SSL certificate. It's just a heck of a lot easier to register the domain for someone and bill them for it later, especially if you're doing hosting for people in SL, since I can just bill them in L$.

It also makes my job alot easier when I need to make changes to the settings.

-Hinoserm

LL has stepped in with regards to massive L$ before. Witness the IGE incident not to long ago.

True, maybe they will create millions and millions of new L$ to help fraud victims, then completely remove the base stipends to prevent this from cause inflation. One other option would be to buy 16 mio L$ on LindeX, then increase tier fees to recoup the 64000 US$ that would cost.

Anshe,

Just because you have the funds to back it up does not mean you would use them. There is no way to enforce that by Linden Lab. People simply have to trust your word. You could start to cash out your money and pull out of SL, cancel all of your servers, and the residents would be left high and dry. They are taking a risk as well. You will try to deny that, but it is absolutely true. ANyone who owns a deed on your private islands is taking a risk. You pulling out of SL would send far more tidal waves through the SL economy than a non-event like Ginko failing would.

High risk investments are just that - you invest knowing the risk - you should never invest money you can't afford to lose in something without a guarantee. That is the basics of making money with high risk investment - take the risk, reap the reward.

yup. If you invest in something where you have no insight into their investment strategy and no risk protection, then you are gambling, pure and simple.

anshe, i have no idea what is behind ginko, which is why i never have and never will put money into it.

But to address a statement you implied that is separate from this Ginko issue: there is NOTHING wrong with taking investment money to build a business. You claim that you bootstrapped with no investment capital. Great. Not all business can do that, not all businesses should do that. There is a reason venture capital exists in the real world.

Well, I look at it differently.

I think that the money might be used for something illegal.. I'm not entirely sure I'd like to get caught in that kind of ethical dilemna.

I don't know if it is, of course, but I go through life trying to deal with people that, karma wise, I feel confident that are not engaging in activities with shady characters.

When I bought a diamond for my wife - the first thing I wanted to make sure was that it wasn't a conflict diamond. I do not want to be underwriting someone elses immoral and possible very destructive dealings.

So, you must then stay very knowledgeable about what your real-world banks are investing your money on too then, huh?

Capitalism, folks.

Yes, it will save the world.

I am sorry if I am cynical but if AC's words result in Ginko's downfall (which I very much hope they will not) shortly thereafter will we see Anshe Corp Bank? Anyone want to take bets?

There has to be a reason for all this now.

Alexa

I can not believe I'm reading this.

Of course Ginko is a ponzi scheme. No legitmate investment is going to be able to pay 72% interest per year. Even Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway has only only managed an average annual gain of 21.9% (over 1964-2004).

I know some of you think Anshe is SATAN INCARNATE ON THE EARTH (or something like that) but this is just silly. She's right; get over it. Your dislike of her doesn't somehow magically suspend the workings of the market. Feel free to fantasize about benevolent rich hobbyists all you like, but the cold economic facts are that it is almost completely impossible for Ginko to ever pay all its investors the full paper balance of their accounts.

To learn more about Ponzi schemes, try this Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Well, I have probably about .01% of my money in banks, but regardless, banks are generally lawful in nature.

Sometimes we disagree with lawful enterprises, but for the most part they do keep us all with a reasonable standard of living.

We have no idea what Ginko is doing. It could be laundering money for international sex slave trade. Who knows.

I'm just saying, odds are with a rate of return like that, it's unlikely that they are up to anything good.

And I can just see "credit crunch" being the explanation why the ponzi scheme fell apart.

This is a concern that shows that you are a highly ethical individual, and for that I am glad.

Yet, since industrialised countries transport just about everything you see via fossil fuels... as such, all of us have oil-conflict blood on our hands.


Capitalism, given long enough, creates its own regulatory forces. Even in the absence of any governing body.

Simply because regulations are nothing more than a risk management 'product' that people will 'buy' when the demand becomes high enough.

Yeah, I always thought ponzi schemes were more urban myth than reality. Clearly I now know better.

People just have such poor math skills.