Ginko Financial

I believe Anshe is 100% honest in her ... attempt to crush Ginko (which, if we were a ponzi scheme, would at least lower the number of people who get hurt). If enough people withdraw, we -will- go bankrupt, just like any other bank anywhere else. It might not mean everyone loses all, or even part of their money, but it -would- mean that the money would be locked with us until we can sell enough assets, or generate enough profits to pay everyone back.

BUT, if there is an occult reason for this campaign against Ginko, it probably has nothing at all to do with SLExchange, but with a private project of hers which she has not given me permission to discuss.

Sorry about that, I was logged into the casino account. I'll post as Nick from now on.

I wasn't aware of that. I am also not registered on the Ginko website, so I don't know what is on their forums.

How many people here use PayPal? You draw interest in PayPal accounts. They are not insured. Their TOS even says you can actually lose money from your PayPal account if the PayPay Money Market fund does poorly.

I turned skill and hard work into money. I never needed investment for my success, that is my point. Pretty much everybody I know who is successful in SL did so based on skill and work and not by borrow money from others.

Who told you this? He himself?

How comes that one wealthy man with money to burn won't get loans from RL banks?

I would like to know where you got the information that he was turned down by RL banks, I hadn't seen that info until you posted it here, Anshe...

I asked him why he wouldn't just get some US$ from RL banks for, say, 8%-10%, instead of pay people in SL 85% per year. He answered that where he lives banks won't lend him money.

My point is that there's no difference in concept between turning land into money, ideas into money, or money into more money. And incidentally making a living at investing is hard work.

It could be a hobby Anshe. A business mind like yours might have a difficult time grasping this concept, but wierder things have happened

BTW Anshe, has it ever occurred to you that you have a LOT more invested on Phillip et al, than you could ever have with Nicholas Portocarrero?

I love SL, and I'm the biggest fan of Phillip and Co. but surely you can't be dismissive of your considerable risk on our beloved platform?

Won't lend him money for what? I'm pretty sure if I went to my bank and explained SL to them and asked for a loan to by sims, set up vendors and sell land, they'd look at me like I was crazy.

P.S. Why is SLExhange.com refusing connections?

I am aware of this risk. However, I only invest my time, not my money earned outside that platform. Also, I know quite bit more about Second Life, Linden Lab and the people who work at and fund Linden Lab.

I would love to learn more about Ginko, the person behind Ginko, the investments etc. There are many questions in my original post that I would love to get some satisfying answers to.

If I go to bank they don't care what I plan with the money I borrow. What they care about is that I have enough wealth/income to pay it off. This means if somebody won't get money from the bank he/she can not be a wealthy person.

I agree.

Until you provide proof of that stataement AC, all we have is hearsay. And saying he told you so is not proof.

Frankly, considering I have made serious cash from my ginko "investment", I would hardly run off scared from a blantant hearsay arguement.

I think even wading into the waters of whether or note Nicholas can or cannot get loans from banks is a very serious matter and you had no right bringing it up here, Anshe. If this doesn't cross the line in revealing personal information NOT found in someone's public profile, I don't know what does.

This we can all agree on.

Hopefully, more transparency will be forthcoming.

In the meantime, you might miss the boat if you wait to long

When somebody collects 18 mio L$, converts it to more than 60000 US$ RL money and invests it in RL, then I consider disclosing RL information that is relevant only to be justified.

I think that's the crux of the problem, we don't really know what Ginko is investing in. What I've always heard was that Ginko invested mainly in RL investments, and not SL. If that's the case, then a sound business strategy would get him a loan... even a high interest RL loan will be better than 75% per annum.

This lack of disclosure of what they're doing with my money ultimately led me to pull my deposits out of Ginko.

Let me say that whenever I dealt with Ginko, everyone was polite, and they've always honored every withdrawal request I've made. They could be running a legitimate RL or SL business with terrific returns. However, I've decided that the lack of disclosure represents a level of risk that I myself cannot tolerate. This is something that every potential investor has to decide for himself.

Maybe his Mom or wife is sick and needs money for some life saving surgery. Who knows. Even one nice person can be victim to the circumstances

Yes.



You mean with Ginko? I'm the only one that directly handles Ginko's non-SL accounts, yes. I do not guarantee that I will not lose the money that has been entrusted to me.



Our total deposit figue (including non-deposit credits, such as interest paid to account), is L$17,921,849.95 right this second.



Our L$ cash reserve is spread over 3 accounts and totals a little over L$2M. It's more than we need as a reserve, and if we kept all the money in L$, how would we ever make enough to pay interest?



That is essentialy right, if you discount all the interest and credits I have used to pay for services.



We did not use the money for "investments", we used the money for investments.



That is not exactly accurate. Our main focus right now is that, but this not really relevant to anything. Websites can be just as profitable as anything else.



No, I do not. It is clearly stated that instant withdraws are a privilege, not a right, and that they can take time.



You do now that is how savings accounts in pretty much any banks works right?



The current rate is 0.15% a day, not 0.19%.



Let me explain something to you about South America. Unless you already have a lot of money, or are willing to pay about the same as we offer, you are not going to get any loans at all. Even mortgages, which are not as freely available anywhere here the way they are in "easy credit land", are impossible to get in places like, say, Argentina. Banks have no real interest in loaning to individuals when they can loan to the government at rates that are over normal business returns especialy when defaulting on loans is practicaly a tradition here. Sure, you might get like, 1k dollars at say, 1% a month as an advance on your wage, but more than that? It's not gonna happen. Also, any money that I get here, I cannot take out of the country, which is where I invest all of ginko's money. I cannot pay a programmer in Romania, or a customer in the U.S. because of exchange controls.



You mean money people gave me. No, you do not have any information, and probably never will have. That is one of the reasons I don't use a bank, they require too much information and give people no flexibility. I don't need, or want, a new momma and pappa looking over my shoulder.




Which is the way it should be.



No. We don't have the political connections to steal from taxpayers to insure our depositors.



That is right, there is no government stealing from taxpayers to make sure you can make a profit with zero risk.



Yes, they have. Philip specificaly. Which came as a surprise to me, but a welcomed one, because I certainly don't want any problems in case I for any reason fail. Which, as in any other activity, could happen.



I am not interested in proving anything to anybody. I'll prove my honesty through competence, not arguments. All those who think Ginko is a ponzi, withdraw.

I agree with everything posted above, this is almost identical to the situation I'm in with it. (see below)

And Anshe, while I do appreciate you answering my question, afaik Aaron is correct - You had a personal conversation with Nicholas, and unless you had asked his permission to make this public knowledge I think it's in violation of the TOS - even though it logically seems like since it pertains to the situation at hand and relates almost directly to the business venture. It's like if you disclosed in a private in-world conversation to someone how much in L$ you make in a month and then that person posted it on the forums. I couldnt say "The people who rent from Anshe deserve to know this"... Its personal information that Nicholas chose to share with you.

Now, that being said... I'll explain the italics "almost" part above. Long story short, I also do not trust their technology that much - I will right here and now publically disclose that my Ginko account (which I no longer use) has a balance of about -5k.... I'll give someone from Ginko a chance to reply before going over the details, but it should be pretty obvious to some of you what that means...

I think Anshe's concerns are genuine.


Consider this: if Ginko goes out of business in this tiny 'economy', what is the net effect on the rest of us?


I am emotionally 'neutral' when it comes to the larger businesses and businesspeople that I haven't met, such as Ginko and Anshe, but also realise that their success or failure could affect me.

Ginko's and Anshe's success are likely only a positive for all of the rest, economically speaking. But if Ginko got big and collapsed... there would be a huge shock. Could it happen? Think: Albania in the 1990's.

Were Anshe's business to fail even now, say by tier discounts being taken away tomorrow - the fallout from that would bruise all of us badly for a long, long time.

- Desmond Shang

If Anshe's business were to fail it would finally mean cheap land on the mainland again.

Banks and currency traders both fall within the same sector: Financial services. Not to question your intent, but they're an _indirect_ competitor. Unlike RL, financial services make up a small fraction of the SL economy (this is mainly because SL has neither an insurance infrastructure nor a retirement infrastructure, eg: there are no major disasters or major pension funds).



Okay, sounds reasonable. However, I have to look at this and ask: Does this constitute a bank?



A bank has to be owned by someone.



The About page on the Ginko site clearly states: "we cannot guarantee that we will never go bankrupt"
https://ginkofinancial.com/aboutus.php



I'm not sure where this number is being sourced from. However, a bank can tell you their total deposits. They normally do this within their prospectus.



I'm also not sure where this number is being sourced from, either. However, total loans are also normally listed on a bank's prospectus.



This is benchmarking. Beyond benchmarking the currency I'm not sure where you're sourcing the information that it's been sold. In other words, can you come up with anyone that had money loaned to them by Ginko for their enterprise?



That's how banks make their money. They accumulate money from depositors, loan the money out (typically to businesses or for mortgages), the money is (hopefully) paid back to the bank along with interest, and the interest monies are then used to pay the bank's bills, a small fraction of the interest is paid to account holders based on their account balances, and everything leftover is profit.



I'm not sure what this information is being sourced from. I'm not sure if this means as a percentage of the total loan portfolio or simply largest loan amount.



The About page on the Ginko site clearly states: "we cannot guarantee that we will always have enough to pay people quickly"
https://ginkofinancial.com/aboutus.php



Yep. Doesn't mean that's bad though. Just means there's a high level of risk.



As the interest is compounded daily it's a far higher return: A nearly 100-percent return during the first year.



Whether or not a person cannot get a loan from a RL South American bank isn't really relevant. Your RL creditworthiness has no relation to the success or failure of an enterprise within SL.



Well, it would certainly help if the Ginko site had a prospectus. But a lack of information doesn't imply revenues aren't being generated.



In financial circles, past performance is not an indicator of continuing success in the future (this is actually a normal disclaimer in financial services advertising).



True. The Lindens do not interfere with player-to-player transactions or enforce nor ensure the validity of player-to-player contracts.



The About page on the Ginko site clearly states: "These accounts not being insured in any way"
https://ginkofinancial.com/aboutus.php



The About page on the Ginko site clearly states: "These accounts not being insured in any way by any government"
https://ginkofinancial.com/aboutus.php



True. Again, the Lindens do not interfere with player-to-player transactions or enforce nor ensure the validity of player-to-player contracts.



Your own personal success story does not create a barrier preventing other residents from earning a high return on their in-world investments and/or enterprises.



Actually, it's highly unethical. You're presenting your "working thesis" as proof. I simply see you as spreading FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) about another player enterprise which, based on the information you've provided, has total deposits 1.8-times greater than your present L$ account balance.



It would help dramatically if there was a prospectus at the Ginko site which clearly listed total deposits, total loans, monies expensed due to defaults, etc. It would give us some idea of the health of the bank, whether its presently overextended itself, and whether its portfolio is "soft."



People are allowed to draw their own conclusions about anything. Doesn't mean their individual conclusion or group conclusion is actually right.



My threshold is whether or not its a bank. Pushing the Ginko About page aside, as there's no prospectus, and I can't see how the bank is operating financially so as to determine it's actual health, it's not a bank. But that doesn't mean it's a Ponzi scheme.

Suggestion: Ginko needs to put up a prospectus.

Nick, thank you for your explanations. I think that you have more than justified yourself.