You Have To Be Kidding

No, while true the sim owner has more rights than they would on the mainland, the resident has less rights (and is the person who was being referred to in the original context).

The change is good for consumers,we can offer a safe place free of the mainland barons.
if swooping happens we can revert it,ETC ETC.

i can understand that the mainland dealers are loosing ground,but dont worry,its just about 80 private sims being added each month..

It seems it is pissing the usual land swoopers in a great way and it's all good, these guys can die in their filth.
Speaking of theme a group of land sellers are spamming in all caps the land ofr sale list with stupid slogans putting down private island sales compared to mainland sales.

isn't false advertisement agains de us laws?

Yea, threatening death to people makes you a much better resident of SL.

*push fingers in ears* laalalalaaa i can't hear youuuuuuuu!!!

kyrah i love you

The fact that this post was started trying to exaggerate my position on this says it all to me. I have NO paranoia about private island sims. More than likely, you will see us getting into the private island part of the game in the future. All I have talked about are facts regarding the differences that everyone should be made aware of in order for them to make whatever decision is right for them. As far as me being a land investor in Second Life, absolutely. I think it is a fantastic investment. I don't hide it at all. I'm kinda surprised you hav'nt heard of Sunnyland.

The differences to each type of land are real. That is all I am talking about, along with how each should be represented on the search tools to inexperienced players. I own penny stocks, but I knew what I was risking when I bought them.

The facts are facts. If a private island owner gets sick, has financial or personal real life problems, and does'nt pay the tier, the land a player "owns" on that island just disappears from the world. I have seen it happen. Have you ever seen a mainland SIM just disappear?

If the private island owner wants to sell the entire island after they have "SOLD" the land to other players, Can't they do that? Am I wrong? It's not paranoia if that's true. Thats a major difference in the confidence one can have in "ownership" of land. LL could go out of business tommorrow and we'd all own nothing. Just, hopefully, LESS LIKELY.

In one of my earlier posts I said "Let me know if I'm mistaken on this everyone." I did'nt see one point in your response that said I was with any fact based comment. So I don't believe I'm the one being completley one-sided here.

Everything being said about many of the POSITIVES of Private Islands is true and will appeal to many players. They should still understand the risks they have in it that they do not have on mainland sims. I actually hope that private island land does increase above mainland sims. With all their plus's you would think they would. They would actually be worth the time to do then. Unfortunately, the players being satisfied with just covering tier, or just a little more, I believe, will keep the private island land at lower cost. I really do hope I'm wrong on that outcome.

The private island owners I am sure will continue to make their land and areas be very nice looking and appealing. I really feel sorry for these suckers that are going to buy these mountainous sims that keep being designed on the mainlands. Waterfront that raises so fast you can't hardly build anything I appealing on it, etc. I think the last one of those I saw went for like $1600. Wake up and smell the future people. Hard to build on and make eye appealing lots, just went way down in value in my opinion.

I'm am very sure the current private island owners are very happy. They know they have a window of opportunity here to sell their land to uninformed players, and wont' go out of their way to fully inform them of the differences.

It's not PARANOIA. It's called honesty.

hmmmm...

I do not know what I implied that would give you the impression I am a land baron. I am a mall owner that takes up an entire sim in baekje.

CONCLUSION: Renting from mainland sims is not wasting time or money. However, you, as the renter, have the advantage of renting from an island owner because they are able to offer you tools that mainland owners cannot give their renters.

Hope that helps clarify. Xplorer

Who said anything about losing ground? I had my best land sale day ever yesterday and still going strong as of this morning. My beef is with certain estate owners misleading potential buyers by blowing sunshine up people's arses by posting false advertising in the land listings to confuse people, and again here by blatently lying about a buyers 'rights'. Gauging by the record land sales I've had in the past 24 hours, apparently some people are beginning to 'get it'.

It is extremely easy to find out which is mainland and which is island, just click on the "map" button and zoom out..... it takes about two seconds (sometimes less) to see whether its on the mainland or whether its a private island. At the same time, filtering options would benefit everyone, and there should be a clear tag indicating whether the land is for sale or for lease.


With that said.....

Island land *cannot* be compared to mainland land and is worth considerably less in the big picture.

Owning mainland is akin to owning land in real life, your tier is your land taxes and Linden Lab is the government you pay them to. You have *all* the rights you want on your land, within government regulations, as long as you pay your taxes.

Leasing island land is the same as renting a house from someone else in real life. You pay them, they pay the government (Linden Labs), and you lose your land rights because you are living on someone else's property. And unlike Linden Lab, they are far more likely to throw you out from your property even if you DO pay your lease.

If leasable land is being listed as public "sale", then there should be a built-in land lease system where land cannot be "reclaimed" until the end of a specified lease OR the lease is broken and a refund is issued to the "buyer" for the remaining rental time..... and force rent to be paid in L$ so that abuse of the system can be managed. With new tools should come responsibility and accountability, and right now, island owners aren't required to have either.

The only problem I have with the new system is that it does not show the parcel size on the main page anymore.

My land sales have also picked up since yesterday, and I sell mainland land.

Oh and by the way, one of my RL friends has a non-premium account, and the system told him he would have to upgrade to premium even to buy land on a private island, so I don't know what's up with that.

Its probably a good thing for Linden that they're closing the forums, because pretty soon we might be hearing about a lot of folks upset because they bought private island land and it was taken away from them for whatever "unfair" reason by the estate owner, even though the "unfair" reason may have been explicitly stated in the covenant.

I'm not saying that estate owners are corrupt, I am saying that there seems to be a tendency not to read the directions carefully when dealing in virtual land.

The fact of the matter is these landswoopers and other scammers that are posting here and you know who you are, are running scared.

They now have to compete with estates that can control the ridiculous club/scriping/neon sign fu** you neighbor this is my land and I don't give a shit what you think attitude that is so pervasive of the mainland.

They want you to believe that we will rip you off like they do. Sell you the land and take it back. Sure that *may* happen a bit mostly from mistakes as new people realize the *BENIFITS* of estates over the chaos that the mainland is and as estates grow there most likely will be people pulling this them most likely it's how they operate.

These people are the same ones that would swoop in and snag that land that unsuspecting residents were pricing for 1L to sell to a friend or some other such thing or had combined all their individual lots into one (which kept it for sale at the lowest lots linden price) i.e. 4 1024s at say 5700 it combines all 4 and prices at the same 5700 dropping your linden per sqm to 1.4 linden per sqm and they were taking advantage of this laughing at you all the way.

Sure it was a bug of lindens but they took full advantage of it knowing this fact. Then came here and acted the victims like they are doing now. Their fat cash cow is melting around their heads and they are scared. I don't blame them if I had no morals or scruples like they don't I would be running scared too.

The real fact of the matter is however most if not all Estate owners DO have morals and scruples we are in this to get away from the scammers/swoopers that in this post are so adamant against this change. Funny how they laughed at us when we could not do anything about them but now that they are on the defensive it’s totally unacceptable.

Let’s clear up some misconceptions here too.

Yes you do own land you buy on an island it is NO different than buying mainland with the exception it is a managed estate and you must agree to the rules before buying. No reputable Estate owner will ever just take back your land without cause just like a linden. Estate owners *BECOME* the lindens and we will do a much better job of managing these a-holes that are so against this change.

The difference being we are creating communities that you need to agree to before you are even allowed to click yes I want to buy this so you are not going into this blind.

What happens is you pay us the tier you no longer need to maintain a premium account with linden so you are saving quite a bit over the mainland. If you want clubs massive malls etc you can still go to the mainland but the big draw of estates is the fact that they are RESTRICTED on estates. People have always liked that now we can get the message out to more players that they are no longer forced to deal with that neighbor's giant dildo or structure that comes onto their land but is mostly on the other so linden will do nothing about it.

We can and will for us its make the residents experience pleasant and we will protect their right not to be scammed, annoyed or harassed by other people. Funny how this scares the very people that do it on the mainland.

Like these people are so fond of telling us... you don't like it well get out of the land market. I have no sympathy for you what so ever.

Your fat cash cow ripping off the unsuspecting days are coming to an end and I for one am now laughing at you!

I'm not in the land business.

I have no cash cow melting from around me.

And I completely disagree with you from one end of your post to the other.

Island owners now have the opportunity to rip people off on a grand scale, and you can bet quite a few island owners are going to rip people off on a grand scale. With this system, island owners are going to become the new "swoopers", letting unsuspecting people buy their land and then make up some excuse and claim it back for "resell". The so called "covenent" rules, they're pointless and unenforcable, and can be changed on a whim.

Linden Labs needs to set up a lease system where island owners *cannot* claim land back on a whim, and must wait either until the lease expires or provide a refund for time remaining..... or remove island land from the "land sale" list.

no ones running scared. Mainland land brokers dont compete for the same general customer as Island does. Island sims main competitor are Dreamland, and Azure Islands, not mainland sellers. Ask any of them... the more educated ones know whats up.



dont forget the fact that your not paying LL tier, but paying the estate owner. Also the fact that actually you dont own the land, it can be reverted at any time for any reason - or no reason for that matter. Those are facts... saying you wont do it is fine.



You get the gold star for the day. Creating communities is great, no complaints here about that. Estate land is great for that.

ya know what I'm too lazy to reply to every point you've made. Some are valid points, some are just you taking potshots.

The plain and simple truth is the following:

Mature and PG can be seperated in the search list because they are 2 different types of land. Mainland and Estate land is 2 different types of land, and should be seperated in the search list. I didnt say REMOVED, I said seperated. I have NO PROBLEMS AT ALL with estate owners getting a fair shot at the land search tool.... A+ for LL for finally doing it. The problem is the seperation. Add a drop down box like mature/pg/both that has mainland/estate/both in it... common sense

http://secondlife.com/vote/vote.php?get_id=1852 Go vote
/13/22/132535/1.html Go discuss

Now if I didnt feel strongly about this option... why would I reply to you, allowing you more potshots at me in the forums for something I have no idea about. I have no clue why you attack me, and I've emailed you asking why with no reponse

Get over the "oh competitors WAHH" and sit back and realize its the common sense thing to do. I dont care that you sell estate land, my customers will never buy estate land, just as your customers will never buy mainland land. Thats not competition, thats 2 entirely different markets.... period.

I'm not arguing who's land is better, mine or yours. I'm offering a feature proposal for the betterment of the WHOLE. No one wants to be confused now with the land listings. Wait till this weekend hits and the weeked SL'er sees what happend. Also wait till MORE estate owners start lising land, racing to the L$1 pricemark with houses/water/sand start flooding. You'll have to go through 50 result pages before you find the mainland land.

Lol I guess you guys think i'm going to get in a pissing contest with you for your quotes and replys but the truth of the matter is I could care less about you and your er.. *cough* so called buisness. Oh and Dragon come in game and hassle me again for a post on the forums and I will AR you. Yeah yeah I know your used to that not mattering.

Anyways... I laugh and I laugh again... you people are sad...

Edit:
oh and show me where in my post I named you that had you come in game to accuse me of it since I specifically avoided naming anyone.

Oh and I agree some designation that its estate would be fine just like the little symbol for first land.

you dont buy mainland so why would you quote it? and a 4092 in estate is just about L$1 right now... mainland buyers dont care... so who's arguing your point again?

and your post is at /130/4d/132210/1.html#post1246854 apparently your a liar too?

the only one sad here is you for not understand the economics in the business your in

Oh he quots another post that is not relevant to what I said and ignores the things I did.. thanks for the chuckle.

Damn I want what your smokin send me some.

its a very well said post ash... and not all land people in mainland bash island land. I dont, never have, never will. Like you said it has advantages/disadvantages. But you did say one thing incorrect.

...and now that people can TRULY OWN affordable land on an island sim...

that statements incorrect... the only person who TRULY owns the land in an island sim is the estate owner. no matter how its worded/sliced/portrayed the purchaser of an estate plot doesnt techincally own the land (you know that, I know that, lets not pretend)

Think I'm wrong... buy one, then try to set it for sale using the "SET FOR SALE" button. You cant, because its not there if the estate doesnt allow the land to be resold

Other than that... I have no arguments with your post.

last post to you because your a worthless troll to me.

you said you dont name names, I showed you that you did. PERIOD. Pure facts... shows your a liar and a troll.

No more off topics this threads dead anyway

Well.. I've read most of the posts in this thread, and I've come to the conclusion that the mainland dealers who are squawking here feel VERY threatened. And rightly so. The changes to estate land give ALL residents a choice to build their SL homes in a place that actually gives them more rights than you'd realize.

On mainland property, if they get a neighbor that puts up the most GOD ugly structures one can imagine, they can either suffer with it or move, probably at a loss because the neighborhood values drop from said structures.

On estate property, if the same thing happens and it violates the covenant, they have recourse to help protect both their investment AND their entertainment value.

On mainland property, you can log off one day with a nice view of the shore or some other terrain, and the next, find a huge, glaring, lag-inducing casino or club parked on your doorstep.

On estate propery, unless the sim is zoned for commercial use, that won't happen. You get a sense of security that what you've built will remain that way.

As for taking back land without reason. Any estate owner that's foolish enough to do so will soon have an empty estate and the attached tier fees. Covenants are in place to protect both estate owners and residents. Just like any homeowners association. Those organizations use their by-laws in the same manner that covenants are designed for, to protect the investment of everyone in the area.

Yes, you will get some estate owners who rip people off. But those are probably some of the bigger idiots around, who need their collective DNA removed from the gene pool. The investment it takes to even start an estate is NOT something undertaken lightly. Of the estate owners I know, ALL of them are honest people are out to make SL a better experience for everyone, with the knowledge that it's completely different than mainland sales. It has to be approached with a long term view towards profitability and keeping the residents both happy and respectful of everyone else around them.

But it all boils down to this: SL residents now have more options regarding how and where they live. The market will show which is the better choice. This will also show who actually has ethical business practices and who the thieves are.

true... personally im not disagreeing with that, i dont think many mainland land brokers are disagreeing with that. Words and meanings are being miscontrewed as "oh the competitor is talking" when thats not true. Its true we ARE voicing are opinion because a major change occured affecting our business - however that does not mean we are against it. I believe most are for it... just in a different way. The current setup may not be the most effective/efficient model.

what MY concern is, is HOW the land is listed. its 2 different types of land... and should be treated as such with a user selectable dropdown box or some other method, just like PG/MATURE is treated. I'm all for equal opportunity

All everyone is asking for is a clear seperation while shopping for land types like you currently can for pg/mature. Everything would appear mixed as it does now, but you have the option of sorting. Just a way for a buyer to easily search for whatever it is that they are looking for. This would not be a disadvantage to anyone and will only make looking for what you are shopping for easier.

You forget I could care less your opinion or if you reply I love pushing a-holes buttons get the picture.

OH and by the way I was asking in the post here that you so oh conveniently forget you were in game harrassig me over and accusing me of name dropping. I never said I don't mention names I said show me where in my post that you were harrassing me in game over. There is a troll here certainly but his name begins with a D.

Have fun in your fantasy world.

Edit:
I am a troll lol talk about the pot calling the kettle black... my feelings are so hurt... NOT!

Regardless of the semantics of ownership vs leasing:

On estate property I'd have to trust the estate owner and Linden Lab (to some extent).

On the mainland I'd have to trust Linden Lab.

I'm always up for options. There are clearly advantages and disadvantages to the different types. I certainly know which option I'd pick in the future.

Adding a drop-down filter menu for these two types would be a great step toward allowing people to make better choices, one way or another, and with greater convenience.

Example: When I search from the Classifieds tab, I often use the drop-down filters. Does that discriminate? Certainly not. It's an optional choice. It empowers the person who is searching (me, the consumer), and, if the seller is classifying their product constructively, it empowers him/her/hir/it as well.

Why would someone selling something (like land on an estate) be against empowering consumers to be able to optionally filter one type of land from the other? Hmm.

If estate land is such an improvement over mainland plots (as some have remarked in this thread), why wouldn't estate owners want their prospective customers to have the ability to filter specifically for these types of plots? Again, hmm.


<Disclaimer>I'm not in any type of SL business, aside from the ultra-rare sideshow scripting for friends. I am a consumer. I own a modest mainland plot and have no desire to sell it.</disclaimer>