You Have To Be Kidding

It seems to me that many Dreamland residents manage to get at least what they paid for their land, perhaps a little more, unless they desperately need to tier down and sell it back to AC for half what they paid for it. Is that really so bad, given the mainland alternative is to *abandon* land and not get a penny for it?

Also, I ask myself why land in some private sims (particularly those owned by less famous residents) is (was?) so difficult to resell? Could it be, perhaps, because of ZERO exposure in the Land Sales list?

There is no reason for most people to abandon land there are any number of land dealers that will pay at least something for it on short notice. Mainland land does not have to be a total loss.

Your paranoia regarding "risk" is completely unwarranted. Are you a mainland land trader, or the alt of a mainland land trader? If not, maybe private estate land just isn't for you. If that's the case, the solution is simple. Don't buy it. That's no reason to hide it from others who would prefer a more compelling alternative to the mainland, but simply don't know that such an alternative exists.



The difference is obvious. Each private estate has a covenant to which you must agree before you are permitted to buy your new land. Regarding the "REAL DEAL", I don't believe you. Hundreds and hundreds of private estates (thousands now maybe?) contradict you. You are most likely spreading the paranoia that I referenced above and creating unnecessary fear in residents. The increased exposure that private estates will now enjoy will help to set that straight.



All land sells for whatever price the owner deems it to be worth. Land prices are simply about supply and demand. I suspect that private estate parcels will end up costing more than mainland parcels, now that they are visible to the entire marketplace. There's no longer any good reason for private estate managers to sell themselves short, when the truth is that they offer much more value than the mainland.



Don't be silly. Prices won't plummet. Private estate parcels being priced higher than mainland parcels is natural. There's just so much more value on private estates, and less supply to choose from.



The estate policies will be clearly defined in the covenants, to which you MUST agree before you are permitted to click the buy button.



I agree, but this land is for sale.

All excellent points.

Following this same line of thought, anything at all COULD happen. Very little in life seems impossible. The fact that there exists a remote possibility that someone (who wouldn't be in business for very long) could operate a fraudulent private estate business, which COULD rip someone off somehow, is no reason to hold back progress.

As one example, content creators can (and quite often do) rip people off in a variety of ways. The solution isn't eliminating content...

These changes put everyone offering land on a level playing field. This is real, true, progress. The change is a good change for everyone concerned, but most of all for consumers.

I guess I just don't really see the difference between estate owners renting pre this update and selling now. Its all about the integrity of the estate owner and what kind of an environment they provide. They are still recieving tier monthly from the buyer as they did from the renter. The Covenant as I see it simply puts teeth in the rental agreements.

If you mean that the sales are now listed in for Sale as what is leveling the playing field yep I will hand you that. But I do think there should be 2 categories added. Mature Private Sim and PG private sim. Just to make the sorting simpler.

Well, a primary reason for segmenting estate and mainland in the land sale search box is IT IS being ABUSED by ESTATE owners. Looking this morning, the first page is filled with 1L land. For 1L your certainly not SELLING the land as one would expect in a LAND SALES tab, your plainly RENTING it. (ie: plain to us, highly confusing to a n00b)

Personally, both types can co-exist in the same listing, but there has to be an indicator either next to the name, or the price, indicating that it's an estate sale, not a mainland sale which can substantially differ in what you can do with it, and true ownership rights.

Start buying up those 1L plots and ARing the estate owners who reposess them.

There's clearly a difference. Buy mainland land and it's yours for as long as SL exists. Buy from a private estate and it's yours for, well, anything from 1 second upwards it seems. It's simply renting by any other name and justifies no up-front cost on the part of the tenant.

Yes there is a difference and it is;
1) islands can be zoned into residential areas where your land will FOREVER be low lag since you will NEVER be next to a club or store.
2) You say rent but what is land purchase on the mainland, u dont own it anymore than if you bought your land from an island owner. You own land no matter where it is and you WILL be paying tier to someone.
3) Lindens may not protect you or take care of your problems on a mainland plot of land but believe me, your island owner will
4) JUST TRY to swoop land from one of MY residents, I dare ya.

While talking about swoopers, I HAVE TO take my hat off to Dragon Keen, ( i think thats his name) he is a very honest swooper and is the first one I have met personally and Id like to acknowledge that fact.

5) much more extensive terraforming features

You may be correct that island owner may take advantage of a player so you DO need to be careful, talk to the islands tenants, has the island been around long, Are the existing tenants happy? Do some research for sure about where you buy land BUT be assured that in most cases islands are far superior to mainland, why do you think Anshe does so well even with her very rstrictive rules and zoning laws, its because it is a nice protected land for a truly nice setting for your home.

No, it's only yours for as long as you pay your tier and abide by the rules. If you do the same on the private island that you're attempting to cause a mass greifing of, I'm sure the lot will be yours for as long as you want it. Shame on you for trying to incite others to grief another resident!!! Your post itself should be considered (and actually, might be considered) a TOS violation.

are you blind? i never said estate owners have no right - i said its GREAT that they can be searched in the list now

The POINT is it should be able to be FILTERED the the search list so customers can distinguish between the two. How about reading the post next time

no ones saying to HIDE the estate land. I dont care.. if you actually READ my post, you'll see that i dont think mainland and estate land owners actually compete. Estate customers dont want mainland, mainland customers dont want estate land, pure and simple

I disagree. I think LL has implemented this perfectly. Private estate land should not be "filtered" so as to be seen as sub-par to YOUR land.

why not? it doesnt sub-par the land????

mature/pg can be selected so why not mainland/estates?

maybe you should be less biased towards your business and think on a larger "whole picture" level perhaps

instead of just saying what you think, please give a fair logical reason behind your opinion

I disagree with you Shaun. LL did good work in the SELL LAND screen, but dropped the ball when they removed the SQ M and allowing the private (RENTAL) property to be mixed in LAND SALES.

It is not a land sale, you are buying into a lease. If I lease a car, I put a down payment and make the monthly payments. Just because I put that money down does not mean I own it. Therefore, it should be under a listing called LEASE LAND, not LAND SALES.

Huge difference. I have confidence that LL is wise enough to get this corrected asap.

Xplorer

Im afraid I disagree with you, You can call land on the mainland a lease just as easily.
You are paying someone a monthly fee and in the case of mainland, paying HUNDREDS of dollars for land, that is silly.

I have OWNED land on a private island for quite awhile now and I have all the rights that you get on the mainland and I got the land for a FRACTION of what it would cost me on the mainland AND when I have problems the island owner takes care of them AND when I wanted a 50 meter pit under my house I got one no questions asked AND I HAVE ALL the tools that I had on the mainaland to manage MY land on the island AND I have NOT had to move, when I was on the mainland i had 4 properties in as many months, Floating blue signs, malls, clubs, stupid particle scripts everywhere, Red BANN lines all over,
for me its the carefree relaxing islands ( oh yeah did i mention that EACH time i sold my mainland land , I took a loss, small but still a loss )
Period.

You dont have to be afraid to disagree with me...

No you cannot call my mainland sim a lease...it is TIER I pay. LL will not take my OWNED land from me, unless I fail to pay the taxes, I mean tier.

You on the island are paying a lease to the owner who is paying tier. Yes I rent land (to others) on my mainland sim but the tenants are leasing, I am not.

As for your losses, (dont take this wrong) maybe you should either A. wait for the higher buyer or B. dont buy so high.

Xplorer

PS. I dont get lag on my mainland sim. I think some malls are bad but I also have to think that not all computers are able to process some of these high script sims. Its not all about LL.

There should be a Land Sales tab for Main Land and Private Land...

end of story.

The lady who is offering her 4080m oceanfront land has no intention of letting buyers keep it at 1L. In order to keep the land you have to pay her rental box. Her instructions are as follows:

1. BUY LAND (account status does not matter) to acquire land
2. PAY RENTAL BOX (use the assigned box) to start lease

Thanks Xplorer Cannoli, being afraid sucks, lol

Ok My Tier for 8192 land was US$40.00/month plus my premium membership
Now I pay $30.00 a month for 8192 land and I do NOT have to be a prem member

so Lease, Tier there is no difference except that SOMETIMES its cheaper on an island
It doesnt matter where u are, YOU WILL be paying a monthly fee what you call it doesn't matter. Ther is NOT ONE thing you can do on your land that I cannot do on mine period. except maybe sell it and even that I could do. There may be rules on islands but that is what keeps them so nice.

I still believe that it doesnt matter where u get the land, from lindens
or from an island owner, you are going to be paying amonthly fee no matter what, in fact on MOST islands it is cheaper than paying the Lindens, heck my landlord gave the entire island the month of December rent free. I cant recall EVER getting a free month from the Lindens.
As long as you are on an established island it is NO different than owning Mainland.

The bottom line is this:
1) owning island land is normally MUCH cheaper than any other land, in many case you do not have to even BUY the land which means you can move to another location easily.

2) You have the exact same rights as if you were on the Mainland.

3) Service is noticably better if you have a problem, it is normally resolved very quickly.

4) You dont have to worry about malls and clubs or nasty bluse signs or other Ads popping up next to you.

5) you have better continuity on an island, plots arent likely to change often.

6) You DO have to be careful which island you get your land on. Read their rules, understand the sim you are taking up residence at.

7) you DO need to talk to the residents of an island you are interested in, What is the owner like, are they responsive to your needs, do they enforce stupid rules?

you DO need to know what you want, and be able to articulate your needs to the owner

and that is about it, you really can benefit from living on an island an you can save some VERY major money but you need to be more careful and make sure you pick the best fit for you. All I can say is that MY personal experience was very bad on the mainland and I was always moving and once I found MY ideal island to get land at I have been happy ever since.

The thing to remember here I think is that there is NO one perfect fit for everyone and the fact that SL has multiple options to try to suit everyone is very commendable. I am so excited about being able to go look at other islands and see what everyone is doing, I have hunting all over for island properties like mine for friends and it has been so hard, well it isnt no more, Thanks LL

Yes, which means your also at the whims of someone who may not like your build and be evicted based on it.

Big difference though, I have ALOT more rights on the mainland, including be able to subdivide and join properties and the right to resell it to anyone I like.

Mabey you will, but you can't speak for everyone.

And you'll do what exactly, STEAL the land back without permission (aka revert it)? While buying land for 1L may be questionable, it is not theft. The seller explicitly gave their permission to anyone to buy it when they agreed to the terms of the sale (except in case of the join bug which has been since fixed). The only recourse you have at your disposal is to take the land back, without the same permission, which is even worse than a swooper (my opinion only) and IS theft (theft is theft, no matter the value involved.. it's taking something without permission).


Yeah, I've seen the results of a few builds using 'extensive terraforming features', and not all of them are pretty.

Now don't get me wrong, I myself own/lease/rent (whatever you want to call it) half a private sim.. but it's not nearly the same thing. Would I do it again? Perhaps, mabey to own my own sim so I don't have to put up with ugly builds next to me, or other people laggin the sim which I have no control over now, much like mainland properties.

My point is the two are different enough that there needs to be a easy way in the land sales tab to diffentiate between mainland, and estate.

WRONG! You have less rights.. not the same. When I can sub-divide and join parcles, and resell to whomever I want, THEN I have the exact same rights.. until then, that statement is a blatent misleading lie.

Watch for loopholes such as "primarily residental". *winks* I got stung with that one and now I have a popular club next to me. Thank gawd they haven't opened the doors to the public yet.

I get what you guys are saying about the L$1 rentals that don't allow resale. I guess it would be better if only private estates that ALLOW RESALE show up in the for sale list. Something that you have to give back to the owner after using isn't really purchased.

The biggest thing that defines land as being "purchased" rather than "leased" in SL is the ability to sell it to a third party though the client.

"Yeah? I backed into your car, but since you were stupid enough to leave your car parallel parked behind mine on the street I don't owe anyone anything. How DARE you ask me to trade insurance information?"

You are renting from a island land owner, not Linden. You are missing a step in between. If I rented land to you in the mainland, I would be your landlord. The parallel is me to your island owner, not you vs me.



Yes it can be. You are paying in smaller increments which equals higher funds in the end. A sim owner is only 195. If they split the lots up into 8000sqm (or so), and rent for less than tier, they make a few bucks. It can be over 100 bucks of profit each month. Your paying less but the sim owner has to deal with situations that may arise



Yes because Island owners have been given better tools than mainland.



Sure. I do the same for my tenants. But they are still limited to what LL can do for you as well. Same with me.



Not so. That can change with a simple sale or an abandoned land option.

Basically the problem is that there are differences in tools offered between mainland and private island sim owners. Comparing the tenant to the landowner is not a fair comparison.

Xplorer

In a previous post
/130/d6/124457/1.html

you stated:
Yeah, not that I've seen.. though there are plenty of mainland sims in the auction.. but, it's 'mainland' *shudders* Nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there.

I totall agree with you and this is my last post on this topic, I have said all i am going to say now because I am not a land Baron seller person or whatever u call yourselves, I am just a player of the game and its important that people playing SL arent mislead into thinking they are loosing from living on an island which is what you are trying to say.

I simply just stated my experiences here and that is how we all learn about SL and more imprtantly how NOT to waste time and money.

You are biased against islands because you sell land and land prices are atrocious on the mainland and now that people can TRULY OWN affordable land on an island sim and Be protected you see a chance that your profits will become lower although this is a HUGE world and Im sure your selling ways wont be harmed that much
like Dragon said, there is folks who want mainland and folks who want islands just leave it at that and note that BOTH models have very large advantages and disadvantages, IF you are just a player wanting a nice home, islands are it. If you are a developer plotting and subdividing and changing land and making money stay on the mainland period

It is true that I cannot subdivide my plot unless I talk to the Island owner first but I can
live in peace and harmony on a nice parcel of land and not be forced to move because of the chaos that sometimes occurs on the mainland.

AS for selling it, Why in Gods name would I WANT to sell it, I just want a nice place to live and play and as for my ugly builds, well I keep them in my workshop out of sight, LOL
And NO ONE has been evicted without cause, Im not sure i know of ANYONE that HAS been evicted.

Have a great day, Im sorry if I have offended anyone but I couldnt help responding when I saw this post. Any other Island dwellers out there? WHAT EXACTLY have YOUR experiences been.

/sits back and sees how many new alts are ceated to dis island owners from the barons of SL

Once hit and run, or vehicle accidents become classified as theft, I'll revisit your comment.