You Have To Be Kidding

So major changes in land system today. They have finally launched a way to try to help people not get screwed selling land. Great. It's been needed way to long.

But we ALL KNOW that private island land is'nt worth as much as Linden areas. Just is'nt. So what do they do. Launch private island land for sale into the search land tool and don't make it evident that is what it is, without looking above the COVENANT. How many people are going to get SCREWED by this now.

And can anyone explain the logic of removing the square meters from the main page?

Simply unbelievable.

I agree with Tryxtyr. There should be a way to tell the difference between mainland and private land. Perhaps a "Mainland" and "PrivateLand" tabs in the Search box?

How about adding the ability to search for non-PG land? Or is it only my UI that doesn't enable searching for Mature? WTF is this crap?

[Edit] Oh. That only happens when using the God Mode proxy apparently, which still works better than the camera control in the new Client Menu

Karma and unfortunately not enough of it.

Yes how can we safely buy or quote land when we cant even see how many meters the land acually is???? And don't even get me started on estate land in with regular listings and no way to differ the 2

I do understand the reason for the private island listings is to give more functionality to private island owers, which is good too. But this was'nt the way to launch it if I did actually press the buy button and try to purchase and it actually does it. Adding the search ability to take private island listings out is what's needed.

/me never had so funny watching bunsh of confused swopers

It's in the buy land screen still just hit purchase and you can see how much is there. I was confused by this at first too and the linden I talked to says they are aware of that little issue.

Edit:
Far as land goes land is land the profit margin for mainland just dropped a bit. But I got out of mainland because of people like Hulka, Dragon and you so I don't really care. The cut throat and plain ripping off is just well like I said before karma.

I will run an honest land buisness (something sorely lacking in SL other than Estate owners) and take care of my people. No I don't think all mainland land sellers are dishonest or think all estate owners are on the up and up. We have to live by our reputations and that is just fine with me. I have never and will never try to rip someone off.

Do you really think it's only the "bunsh" of so-called swoopers that are confused?

She is norwegien her english is not as good as ours.

I bug reported the lack of distinguishing the day 1.12 hit preview. Just another point LL doesn't listen or care. Solution.

Create a covenant:

Purchasing this land represents a 1 second right to the usage of this land immedately following acceptance of this agreement. At the end of your allowed use land will be reclaimed.

Profit off newbs who don't know about Private Island land till LL gets a clue and creates search options for.

Mainland Only
Private Sim Only
Both

and defaults it to mainland.

It should say Island or Mainland just to distinguish but like I said land is land. People looking for residential are going to prefer the lower cost of islands and the lower tier with no need to keep a premium account.

Oh. Well, then, I apologize for calling out the word "bunsh".

But not for the main question, which is still valid. Others also have questions about changes to the land search and land dialogs on another thread.

It is absolutely preposterous to suggest that only the "bad guys" are confused.

It is quite normal for people to have questions when things change to this degree, and I suspect that there will be quite a few questions about this update in particular.

She was referring to the fact that every single land swooper (dishonest) that we know of popped in when I put a plot up for sale for 3L sqm.

I am right now in the middle of writing a new covenent and a auto notecard distributor to hand out the way things work right now so there wont be any problems here.

thank you for the apologize. i dont care mutch about my typos anymore after almost 12 year on internett. and having writing and reading problems i kinda heard it all.
but thank you for the apologize *smiles*

I think this system has made matters worse.

First, the new selling system is great. Less change of accidental sale, although i saw it happen about 5 times today... so no it didnt fix the issue, just lowered it a little bit which is fine by me.

Second, joining/splitting land no longer sets your land for sale at a price you didnt agree to. Perfect... A+ for LL for fixing an ongoing isssue.

Third... please tell me who's the genius behind mixing mainland land and private island land PLEASE. They deserve a brutal flogging. What genius thought that this would be smart? I can fully understand the idea of having Island land show in search. Those guys need a boost to their business model A+, however, anyone searching the land sales page now can plainly see whats happened. The land listed for sale at L$1 keeps growing. Its at 8 right now, and I'm sure will only grow. This is causing a mass panic amonst buyers and sellers. Buyers have no clue what their buying now, and sellers of mainland land now have to say "yes you REALLY WILL own this land, theirs no covenant here"

In case its not VERY obvious... the listings need seperated, and they need seperated fast. Whats to stop an estate owner from saying in the covenant they will revert land after purchase and keep relisting? Most of the consumers wont know whats going on.

I suggest (and spoke with a few Linden about it as well already in world) that either a new tab be created for searching Private Island land, or add a similar dropdown box to the PG/Mature/Both, having a Mainland/Island/Both option to be selected. This will at least allow the customer to select which land they are looking for.

If a customers looking for Island land, they have no interest in seeing mainland land, and vice-versa. Most of the Island owners give the land for free, and just accept tier. Its 2 different business models focused on two different types of customers.

Mainland land brokers and Island owners do not compete against one another. If a customer wants Island, its because they dont want to pay for a premier account or just simply want to live in a secluded area. If a customer wants mainland, its for the neighbors, the sence of ownership, and an investment. These two types of customers are set in their mind already, hence the reason why the 2 land dealers dont compete

Please LL fix this. Its a land market disaster waiting to happen once more and more land gets listed over the next few days.

I shouldnt have posted because I'm sure expecting whats about to ensue next... but for the better of the game and economy it had to be done... so I'm sure the trolls will come next

This girl who is selling 1L Private land reclaims the land after you purchase and forces you to use his rental box. Basically he's using the land sales tab to promote his land rental service.

Land is land. Why do so many mainland land dealers feel that private estate managers don't have as much right to offer their land, to the same global market, for whatever price they feel is fair, as you do? It's a ridiculous double standard that only serves to protect and shelter mainland land dealers, who are engaged in an outdated business model.

Mainland land dealers already have an incredible advantage over private estate managers, due to an arguably unfair 10% tier discount, which private estate managers don't get. Until today, mainland land dealers also had a (not ARGUABLY, but REMARKABLY) unfair advantage over private estate managers by virtue of being the only people who could offer land to the general public. I think that anything Linden Lab can do to help level the playing field a bit is long overdue.

Private estates actually offer a lot more than the mainland in terms of zoning and community building. Perhaps now a situation will evolve in which private estate managers can recoup expenses as quickly as mainland land dealers. This is a good thing, because it allows private estate managers to expand as quickly as mainland land dealers.

In my view, it's about time that private estate parcels received the same exposure as mainland parcels. Does this threaten mainland land dealers? Probably. Private estate parcels are a clearly superior product to mainland parcels, as things stand now.

The fact that mainland land dealers are unwilling to compete with private estate managers doesn't mean that private estates should be hidden from users, though. Mainland land dealers shouldn't be screaming at Linden Lab for private estates to be hidden from the user base again, or sectioned off in such a way that makes them seem less like land than the land being offered by these dealers. This is obviously a fear of change.

It is clear that a fair and equally accessible marketplace is finally upon us. Thus, it is time for mainland land dealers to either step up to the plate and offer expanded services to their clients (zoning through rentals etc) while decreasing costs (buying in-world rather than on auction etc), OR suffer dramatically decreased market share, as more and more residents are exposed to the benefits of private estate living. Change is constant, and changes that result in a more fair and level playing field are always good, even if they don't suit one particular resident's business model so well.

With the winds of change constantly blowing, only the adaptable stand the test of time in any marketplace. The rest become bitter as they are unable to innovate and fade into obsolescence. Don't be the whiner, be the mainland land dealer who brings innovative new business models to the mainland.

I don't care how you want to twist it around to justify whatever. There is simply more risk involved in "buying" private island land. Every private island owner can operate under whatever "rules" or "standards" they desire. If I'm not mistaken they CAN take back land for any reason without any cause if they so choose or if the the island gets sold to a new owner.

NEW PLAYERS have a right to know the difference. They will be making decisions based on a total lack of knowledge. Most of the "private island" owners are honest people doing business, but the customer should be able to know the difference in land. Every player I have told about the REAL DEAL behind private islands have either sold or regretted doing it. PERIOD.

Why does the land sell for less? Because once you SELL the land on the mainlands you don't get tier fees, etc. and whether or not it's admitted, there is much more risk involved in it. Other than the terms of service there are no rules to follow on mainland land, except the differences between PG and MATURE.

SIMS start at auction at $1000 and have been steadily increasing lately. I would'nt even consider buying one at auction right now. Only time will tell as to whether or not how this was launched will plummit land values making it unjustifiable to buy auction sims. If the business plan is to stop making the mainland sims than this should really work great.

Then they can get 1250 for every new sim and probably increase the price of those in the end.

I'm sorry, but instead of doing this correctly and fixing the existing problems with players being ripped off by thieving players, etc. They added an entire new way for players to be confused and feel manipulated by not being told the facts and methods up front again.

AND NO. THE LAND FOR SALE TOOL SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BE USED FOR RENTING!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have been out of the loop for awhile would someone mind explaining how this selling land on Private Islands really works. Seems to me the Island owner is still paying the fee for the island so if the sell instead of rent how are they covering their fee month after month? Seems like a loosing money proposition to me or do I have something backassward here.

They collect land tier fees instead of the lindens every month.

Then things have not really changed. The person "buying" the land still pays the island owner monthly (be it cash or L$). I guess I just don't get how that is an advantage that would make someone "buy" land on a private island as opposed to renting it.

Now if Island owners could buy an Island, Parcel it, sell it off and tier down as they go (and as buyers take on their own tier for that land). Then we would have something revolutionary in terms of continent building.

When you buy mainland land, that's it. You either sell it for profit, what you paid, or a loss. I don't know of anyone in the game buying mainland land and then selling it for 1/2 of what they paid. They do on the private islands.

Right now counting the 1250 + first months land tier of $195 you have 6.64 per meter in the land when you buy an island. Resellers of mainland land make money buy increasing what the paid for land. Island owners take the 6.64 and sell it as low as half that. Then charge tier fees to get the rest back. Plus they still have the right to sell the ownership of the "island" and tier fee base to any other player that wants to buy it for whatever price they can get. If they can sell it for 1450 and get their money back, thats fine, or sell it for $1, thats fine. But then the new owner of the "island" can reclaim all the land and sell it again to new players if they want. And the "owners" of the land have absolutely no recourse. Too many players buy land and are satisfied just basically paying the tier fees. It is absolutely not the same as mainland land.

Let me know if I'm mistaken on this everyone.

One of the things I've seen on a covenant already was charging a late fee, and if that late fee was'nt paid in a week the land would taken back and resold. Wow, a whole week.

So the two things are completely different, but being represented in the exact same way to players that don't have the knowledge to know the difference.

Thank you I appreciate the explaination. I have pretty much been out of the land business for over a year (other than the odd parcel here or there I couldn't resist) so I have been really out of the loop in terms of what has been going on.

Basically there is from my point of veiw very little reason for someone to prefer buying on an island other than atmosphere and good management (ie low lag, pleasant build etc). But that is a crap shoot as you so clearly pointed out. Island owners can screw over the buyer in nothing flat. I am not saying they do, simply that it is possible.

I am not quite sure I understand all these changes.

For example

Can I buy a private island and divide it up and sell it on? (and what happens to both my own and the purchasers tier fees to Linden)

If I form a group of 2 people (myself and an alt) can I buy something that is copy and modify/sell protected, and sell it on by inviting the prospective purchaser to join my group, transfering it to him/her and disband leave the group

Just 2 question in some very complex changes