Help stop the L$ from dropping, stop premium account allowances!
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-07-2006 15:17
From: ReserveBank Division L$ Land Auctions would be bad, because it make Linden Labs the biggest seller of L$ in the game. Obviously there staff doesn't live on L$. So LL would have to sell servers, collect L$, then sell it on the LindenX. Of course, that would give them incentive to pay attention to L$ valuations....
But right now, the amount of sinks to suck out the oversupply of L$ is worthless... Well they exist - but it still doesn't answer my question.. why shouldn't these things be free if you are arguing a 'closed economy'.. why aren't you arguing the taking away of dwell? Why are you only arguing one specific point? Because you don't actually beleive in what you preach - you are arguing in order to bring about a change that is beneficial to yourself. My guess is because you don't actually produce anything in SL - in fact seem to hold those that do in disdain - its because you want the economy to spiral in the other direction so you can cash out money bought high.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Nogardknim Perth
Registered User
Join date: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
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03-07-2006 15:42
From: Jonas Pierterson The way you discuss welfare and project welfare onto our -paid for- stipends.. I can only imagine you must hate living off of welfare real world. No, they're just an ignorant little 13yr old whose trying to fight for the only way he knows how to make money . . . By making new accounts for the money instead of actually working for it . . . Perhaps? Then again, I haven't read every reply made in this post . . . I might just be the of the same ignorance as the rest . .
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-07-2006 15:52
Hes arguing to remove the stipend that I pay for as part of premium.. and never have new money hit the market..
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Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Nogardknim Perth
Registered User
Join date: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
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03-07-2006 15:54
If you pay to play, why not get something in return? Maybe we ALL should just pay to play so everyone is equal? . . . We could always make SL Marxist ;D
Is he afraid of working for his L$?
Either way, the allowance that you get for paying to play could just as well go back to LL for paying what you need to pay =\
Oh, and why don't the people who make a new account give up THEIR stipends as well? If people who pay for their allowance need to make things to get money . . . Why not make the new accounts do it as well? We all had to learn at one point . . .
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Nogardknim Perth
Registered User
Join date: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 17
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03-07-2006 16:04
From: Tyrion Callisto Or perhaps they are from another country and English is perhaps their third language, or maybe their forth. How many do you speak, Mr. Thinker? Also, Language is the tool of thinking? No it isn't. It is a RESTRICTION on thinking, that we struggle against daily as humans. Sure, language is a great tool for articulating thought, but thought is certainly not limited to language as it's medium. That claim is absurd, preposterous, pretentious, and very limited. So, imagery doesn't play into thought at all? Sounds? When you dream, do you see a chalkboard with words scrolling across the front? Are you dreaming in english? Can people who speak chinese have the same dreams as those who do not? Can a child not perceive that someone is taller then them because they don;t know the words tall and short? Hogwash. Sophmoric drivel.
Next time you want to attempt to make someone feel small, in order to boost your own self esteem, try coming up with a way to do it that doesn't fly in the face of years of research by the worlds foremost scientists, and their articles on the subject in New England Journel of Medicine.
One of the subjects that has been covered in that, and other respected publications:
Language tends to dissolve over time, to become less precise, and less focused. It degrades into slang, streetspeak, and other less pure forms of the language. Many languages actually die.
If thought was inextricably linked language, wouldn't the same hold true for thought itself? Shouldn't we be worse (less advanced) at thinking, these days, as our language becomes less pure?
When I think, thoughts come in all forms. Sure, plenty of words flash around my brain, so language is one tool for thought, but so do many other forms of thought in the form of imagery, remembered feelings, sounds, current emotions etc... It is never as simple as a few sentences floating by.
So yeah, certain people may not be able to articulate their thoughts to others easily, in the other persons native tounge, but if I was a second year Japanese language student, and I attempted to write a few paragraphs worth of information, I bet I would come across like an autistic sewage tech. Does that mean I can't think straight? That my thinking was sloppy because I couldn't write in japanese? You just might, and you would be dead wrong then, too.
Sorry if this post seems confrontational, but in my relatively short time on the forums, you come across as someone who certainly isn't here to help the community, but someone who is bent on berating others and really just throwing a bunch of bullshit around. I mean, clearly, you have some intellect, but knowledge isn't wisdom.
Now, go ahead and flame me, I have a pretty thick skin, you might even have fun doing it. After that, perhaps try approaching the community in a more positive way and affect REAL change, instead of just busting on people you don't even know.
.M Words from a true Tyrion Lannister.
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-07-2006 19:00
From: Siggy Romulus Well they exist - but it still doesn't answer my question.. why shouldn't these things be free if you are arguing a 'closed economy'..
why aren't you arguing the taking away of dwell?
Why are you only arguing one specific point?
Because you don't actually beleive in what you preach - you are arguing in order to bring about a change that is beneficial to yourself.
My guess is because you don't actually produce anything in SL - in fact seem to hold those that do in disdain - its because you want the economy to spiral in the other direction so you can cash out money bought high. There is no gain for me, this is all academic. A test to see if a Capitalism Economic Model for SL would benefit the masses and lead to economic prosperity for all. Compared to the current economic model of a Socialist Welfare State. Where citizens depend on their stipends to a point that they have no incentive to become creative. No desire to pump out new content for profit. Instead they wait for their welfare check. Which in and of itself is filling up the economy with more and more dollars. I don't know if you've noticed, but the Linden Dollar is drifting further from the L$250 target set by your Master, King Phillip. Its obvious the Linden's are unable to fix their own economy and reach their own target goals. And its you, Citizen Kane who suffers...
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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03-07-2006 19:26
"ReserveBank Division" ... Hmm. The name itself seems to violate the whole 'truth in advertising' thing. Perhaps you should rename yourself: UnreservedFearmongering Division.
As an *active* premium account user, I find that L$500 doesn't come close to covering my uploads, parcel listings and ratings. But I'm just one anecdotal datapoint, what about the other 100,000+ avatars?
How many of them are active? How many will be visited by GrimReaper Linden before they return long enough to spend their pocket cash and accrued stipends? (even if they didn't have any salmon mousse!)
To crassly oversimplify... 3k to 5k active at any one time. Over 24 hours, perhaps, 10k to 15k unique avatars? Over a week, perhaps up to 30k? (Being exceptionally generous, I'll allow that there may be up to 40k 'active' avatars.)
So, all this fear mongering over approximately 60,000 x L$50 entering cirulation every week is just stupid. That money given to inactive 'secondlife tourist' players will, far more often than not, will be taken right back OUT of circulation before it passes hands.
Is L$50 x 35,000 + L$500 * 5,000 a week, (again being generous with the population figures) actually enough new money coming into circulation to accomodate the influx of new players (and tourists) that SecondLife has? Is it too much? What is "too much?" anyway?
Personally I think expecting a stable economy in what still counts as a social experiment is 'too much'.
-- I say that LL should start charging L$'s for folks to complain about the declining value of the L$. At least that will fix ONE problem.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-07-2006 19:47
From: ReserveBank Division There is no gain for me, this is all academic. A test to see if a Capitalism Economic Model for SL would benefit the masses and lead to economic prosperity for all. Compared to the current economic model of a Socialist Welfare State. Where citizens depend on their stipends to a point that they have no incentive to become creative. No desire to pump out new content for profit. Instead they wait for their welfare check. Which in and of itself is filling up the economy with more and more dollars.
I don't know if you've noticed, but the Linden Dollar is drifting further from the L$250 target set by your Master, King Phillip. Its obvious the Linden's are unable to fix their own economy and reach their own target goals. And its you, Citizen Kane who suffers... But your plans don't lead that way - your arguments only cover one half of the equation at best - secondly the 250 figure is a figure pulled from the ether - I've already said that in numerous posts... As for me - I don't suffer in the slightest. I say that the fact that folks CAN buy something with their stipend stimulates them to get involved in SL - and eventually make thier own stuff. I've had one since I started - and yet I create stuff... and sell stuff.. and do fairly well... As do many others. As for no gain in you - I call the big bullshit - all your talk of 'crash day' and your inability to withdraw more than 2k at a time - your constant doom forcasting and spewing of 'captialistic/socialism' rhetoric to blow smoke over any REAL answer to back up your claims speaks volumes.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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03-07-2006 19:58
From: Siggy Romulus As for no gain in you - I call the big bullshit - all your talk of 'crash day' and your inability to withdraw more than 2k at a time - your constant doom forcasting and spewing of 'captialistic/socialism' rhetoric to blow smoke over any REAL answer to back up your claims speaks volumes.
I'm half expecting ReserveBank to cop-out and post " My REAL goal was to make people think about the issue! It worked, I succeeded, I win!"Maybe ReserveBank is the bush sign guy after all. 
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-07-2006 20:18
From: Jopsy Pendragon I'm half expecting ReserveBank to cop-out and post " My REAL goal was to make people think about the issue! It worked, I succeeded, I win!"Maybe ReserveBank is the bush sign guy after all.  The Bush Sign Guy sells their money on Ebay 
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-07-2006 20:23
From: Siggy Romulus But your plans don't lead that way - your arguments only cover one half of the equation at best - secondly the 250 figure is a figure pulled from the ether - I've already said that in numerous posts... As for me - I don't suffer in the slightest.
I say that the fact that folks CAN buy something with their stipend stimulates them to get involved in SL - and eventually make thier own stuff.
I've had one since I started - and yet I create stuff... and sell stuff.. and do fairly well...
As do many others.
As for no gain in you - I call the big bullshit - all your talk of 'crash day' and your inability to withdraw more than 2k at a time - your constant doom forcasting and spewing of 'captialistic/socialism' rhetoric to blow smoke over any REAL answer to back up your claims speaks volumes. Guess its time to write my manifesto....
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-07-2006 20:24
From: Jopsy Pendragon I'm half expecting ReserveBank to cop-out and post " My REAL goal was to make people think about the issue! It worked, I succeeded, I win!"Maybe ReserveBank is the bush sign guy after all.  You Socialist love to believe these wild ideas... I am, who I am... Someone that you are not, but wish you could be...
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-07-2006 20:40
My god! He's Brian Boitano!
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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03-07-2006 21:25
From: ReserveBank Division A preset amount of dollars are in circulation and that number never grows. I suggest you re-read that sentence and think about it.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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03-08-2006 00:53
Here's a quote: "All Socialist and Communists Suck. Capitalism is King." someone else who doesn't put the 's' on the end of socialists. and the last peice of the puzzle falls into place 
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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kerunix Flan
Registered User
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
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03-08-2006 01:07
And if you stop flooding this forum, LL linden won't buy more powerfull server to handle more and more post against socialism. The server reseller will bankrupt, Linden Lab will bankrupt because of the bad investment on new server to handle weekly harrasment, the sky will fall, people will die, ...
OMGZOR !!! YOU TERRORIST !
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Merlyn Bailly
owner, AVALON GALLERIA
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 576
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Aha! Gotcha! Good try, but "the Shadow knows"... <grin>
03-08-2006 01:15
From: Argent Stonecutter $10.00 per account. How does that count as "free"? They didn't have free accounts when I joined. WELL, THEY OBVIOUSLY DO NOW, SON... haven't you been paying attention? From: someone I pay $33 a month for 6144, which pays for $20 a month of the tier on the sim. Every dollar of their sim tier comes from rent like mine. So, I pay $33, Linden gets $20, Tony and Alliez get $13. That's a better deal for Linden Labs than my sticking a prefab on "Mature green flatland" somewhere. Still have no freakin' idea who "Tony and Alliez" are or why you're paying them anything at all. From the very fuzzy way you're talking, I gather you rent land. That's hardly creative. Big deal. LET'S SEE: You pay rent to some people and run a biz there... since you rent so _MUCH_ land, and you have deliberately avoided specifying what you do there, I gather it's something that requires a high prim count -- probably one of the casinos/clubs which feature zombie camping, all of which depend heavily on the DI derived from subscibers who have freebie accounts, and which are heavily scripted, high-traffic businesses which leech resources from everyone else in whatever sim they are located. And the reason my comments upset you is because you and your landlords split the DI awarded by LL for the resource-sucking biz you run. They're not just your landlords, they're your business partners, and they split the DI with you. Ah, now I see why you're whining... without all the zombies with freebie accounts in your camping operation, no daily handout from LL for your leeching operation/zombie farm. From: someone I didn't say you didn't, I was asking you whay you thought all premium accounts were "creators" when so many of them just flatten their land and drop a prefab on it.
I don't doubt it, and so are a lot of prefab chchi prim hairdos. The point isn't what it looks like, the point is whether the person buying it is, as you claimed, a creator.
Someone who sits on a dance ball can be just as creative about their outfits, I'm sure.
Ah, so none of the scripts and objects I write and give away and sell are "creative" unless I get a 512, flatten it, and put a prefab house on it somewhere. Then all of a sudden all the same activity is suddenly "creative".
And I'm the one who's delusional? I'd rather live next door to a "tacky prefab" than a resource-sucking zombie farm. You're a resource leech who's trying to hide the fact with all this BS, dancing around the fact that the biz you run on rented land is basically a whorehouse, and all your zombie campers are whores who rent their time/bodies to you for chump change while you and your "landlords"/partners rake in the Lindens from LL's DI from the dwell they provide. You're certainly deceitful. And if the "scripts and objects (you) write and give away" are crap stuff that newbies collect, like sex scripts and fetish toys, I'm hardly impressed by such "creativity". Talk about tacky and sleazy. 8-P
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SL used to be a game -- now it's a corporate advertising/marketing platform.
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Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
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03-08-2006 02:39
From: Merlyn Bailly WELL, THEY OBVIOUSLY DO NOW, SON... haven't you been paying attention? Still have no freakin' idea who "Tony and Alliez" are or why you're paying them anything at all. From the very fuzzy way you're talking, I gather you rent land. That's hardly creative. Big deal. LET'S SEE: You pay rent to some people and run a biz there... since you rent so _MUCH_ land, and you have deliberately avoided specifying what you do there, I gather it's something that requires a high prim count -- probably one of the casinos/clubs which feature zombie camping, all of which depend heavily on the DI derived from subscibers who have freebie accounts, and which are heavily scripted, high-traffic businesses which leech resources from everyone else in whatever sim they are located. And the reason my comments upset you is because you and your landlords split the DI awarded by LL for the resource-sucking biz you run. They're not just your landlords, they're your business partners, and they split the DI with you. Ah, now I see why you're whining... without all the zombies with freebie accounts in your camping operation, no daily handout from LL for your leeching operation/zombie farm. I'd rather live next door to a "tacky prefab" than a resource-sucking zombie farm. You're a resource leech who's trying to hide the fact with all this BS, dancing around the fact that the biz you run on rented land is basically a whorehouse, and all your zombie campers are whores who rent their time/bodies to you for chump change while you and your "landlords"/partners rake in the Lindens from LL's DI from the dwell they provide. You're certainly deceitful. And if the "scripts and objects (you) write and give away" are crap stuff that newbies collect, like sex scripts and fetish toys, I'm hardly impressed by such "creativity". Talk about tacky and sleazy. 8-P I don't know Argent, but your unfounded personal attack made me so angry I had to take a walk before I replied. Your suppositions are way off base incidentally... when I returned I logged on, looked up Argent's profile, and from the picks... TPed to one of the prettiest sims I've seen. No zombie farms, or nothing even close to it. Your posts are aggressive, ignorant and way over the line. You need to step the f@#k back. You should also apologise to Argent. Stop bringing your anger management problem to the forums.
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George Flan
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 268
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Bottom Line
03-08-2006 02:56
The bottom line is that linden labs has made the decision to provide stipends to both the new resident in the amount of L$50 and L$500 to the preimum account holders. They have done this for a reason which has been stated here by a large number of people. If this is the Linden Labs policy than that is what it is. It is time to stop all these comments about what is happening to the linden. When and if LL decides to end the stipends they will. Come on people let it drop.
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-08-2006 05:44
From: George Flan The bottom line is that linden labs has made the decision to provide stipends to both the new resident in the amount of L$50 and L$500 to the preimum account holders. They have done this for a reason which has been stated here by a large number of people. If this is the Linden Labs policy than that is what it is. It is time to stop all these comments about what is happening to the linden. When and if LL decides to end the stipends they will. Come on people let it drop. You drop it.. Stick with the status quo and leave the future changes to those who speak out.
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
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03-08-2006 07:09
The status quo, in this case, is both a contractual agreement (premium agree to pay x amoutn for y service) and a moral one (you don't stiff your customers).
The status quo, the stipends ar ein this case both GOOD.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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03-08-2006 07:31
From: Jonas Pierterson The status quo, in this case, is both a contractual agreement (premium agree to pay x amoutn for y service) and a moral one (you don't stiff your customers). The status quo, the stipends ar ein this case both GOOD. YES, For Premium residents is is part of the TOS or Terms of Sercice). Linden Labs would have to make a new one and get the residents to agree with it.
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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03-08-2006 08:39
From: Ranma Tardis YES, For Premium residents is is part of the TOS or Terms of Sercice). Linden Labs would have to make a new one and get the residents to agree with it. Which they would have to, as if they didn't, they'd be unable to play SL. However, you're right on the moral issue.
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ReserveBank Division
Senior Member
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,408
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03-08-2006 09:41
From: Ranma Tardis YES, For Premium residents is is part of the TOS or Terms of Sercice). Linden Labs would have to make a new one and get the residents to agree with it. Get the residents to agree? Please.... LL will just mandate a new TOS and you'll just have to accept it... LL is a private company and they can do anything they want with their product. They don't need permission or some majority vote from you to do it.
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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03-08-2006 09:43
From: ReserveBank Division Get the residents to agree? Please.... LL will just mandate a new TOS and you'll just have to accept it...
LL is a private company and they can do anything they want with their product. They don't need permission or some majority vote from you to do it. so... have you surrendered your stipend?
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