If AgePlay Is Being Restricted, So Should Gambling...

as a paying customer, i would say there should be a grievance procedure filed against LL for past practice.

Let me get this straight.... you goto the website secondlife.com to join a free world with content created by the people, and then when you dont get what you want out of it you call it rigged, unregulated, illegal, evil, what else...
For this part of the discussion let me agree:

Step one: Content regulation:
- All inworld content creation should first pass a procedure, by a government institution owned by private investors (just like Federal Reserve, or that little corporation whats it's name again... IRS, yes the one with HQ in southamerica)... Let's call it The Federal Virtual Content Regulation, this non-profit organazation with it's HQ ofcourse outside usa to get hold of cheapest labour possible. This Content Regulation Organization will ofcourse provide us top quality filtering from nonenglish speaking residents, like in example: "Carlos, this object here called i dont understand, ithink it says Slut, slut is a gambling device in engrish right ?" ... this quality assurance will ofcourse cost a very small fee of USD 295 a month + a tiny taxation fee of 61% if it's a object that accepts payment. (please dont misunderstand this taxation and think of it as much, as in rl, in my country i pay "only" 36% income tax, then if i buy a pair of shoes they're taxed at "just" 25% on top of the 36%, then if i buy enough stuff i endup paying a fortune tax... so around 60% is very competitive and small fee almost unnoticed for virtual goods just like rl).

Step two: Service regulation:
- All inworld services that deals with money should be owned or licensed to RL corporations that fill the "regulatory-requirements" of USSA and it's subsidiary organizations. For example the most known vendor systems we currently have should become owned by Wallmart, Stockexchanges and Monetary exchanges by The London Securities Exchange, inworld porn by Deutsche Porn Companies, and Gambling by Wealthy men from Canada (who currently posesses a marketshare of above 50% in rl gambling), Scripting should go through microsoft to ensure best programming quality.

Some people will call such a thing monopoly, thats ofcourse not true, because you're an illegal alien in the virtual world and you don't know whats best for you, let the regulators control whats best for you, for "just a small fee".

The scenario i presented above is ofcourse abit extreme, but thats what many people in this discussion and around think is best for them because they for some reason dont believe that either they can take a wise decision or exist in a free world that can mature and create with time it's own regulatory services, currently secondlife is maturing as never before, reputation is the best regulation, lessest governing is the best form of government. Take away the freedom to create content and the whole purpose of secondlife will disappear.

When it comes to casinos basicly, let's turn back time a little, it used to be common to see low payout games 75% or below (by the RL regulated EU 75% is considered fair) right now the volume driven inworld casinos operate with payout ratios of 90%+, the greedy gets killed by competion and thats the beaty of freedom, regulate it and people will seek ways to go around it.

The worst part of regulation is that it becomes naturally a supermagnet of corruption and is abused for capital and/or political gains.

If you don't like secondlife why bother, go back to RL and enjoy the fruits of any of the totalitarian governments around the world instead, or is that too hard, i guess we need a regulatory service that will force people that should quit but can't because they can't make a decision bythemself.

Hmm, yes, except when the said casino is shoving me out of my land.

Let's run down the situation.

I had land in Highflyer. It was really nice land, actually. When I first bought it the neighbours were really cool, lots of nice people. We, being my girlfriend and I, really liked the spot we were at, and had plans for it. And then almost overnight this massive red and black and wood colored monstrosity starts crawling across the land. No biggie... We didn't realize at first exactly how big it was, but god it was awful looking. We simply moved our project into the sky, and all was well again.

Next thing I know ever bit of property surrounding me has been bought. Why? Several reasons. One, no one wanted to live next to this lag inducing griefhub. Which brings us to the second point, everyone that lived around us was being griefed by the owner of the casino and her patrons. I get an IM from her asking if I'd sell, and I told her I had to talk to my girl about it. She got snippy, and next thing I know my land is being attacked. Why? Because she was a complete asshole, that's why. She's spread across Spinach, Highflyer, and another sim that's name escapes me right now. But she's spreading like a cancer across the grid, bullying and shoving people out of their property, and then getting them to sell low. If they wont sell to her, then she uses one of her alts or friends posing as a member of the Arbor Project to attempt to purchase the land, which goes straight into her pocket once more.

Granted. I know not every casino is a plague like this. That is a pretty extreme and nasty version of what a casino in Second Life can be, and there are some people who own casinos who are pretty cool, I am sure.

Nevertheless, due to that incident, and what she is doing, and the fact that I have yet to see one casino that isn't a hole, I'd still love to see casinos be made illegal in Second Life.

Linden Labs banned age play since it is illegal in a country where there are a lot of SL Residents thus,
casinos should be banned since they are illegal in multiple countries including the host nation,
and Prostitution should be banned since it is illegal in multiple countries as well as the host nation.
I do not like "age play" but fair is fair why should the laws of one nation be enforced but the laws of other nations be ignored?

They did, now shut up and LET THE THREAD DIE!

Well I do not need your permission to make a posting. I have not seen a notice where casinos and Prostitution are against the TOS, only they can not be classified ads promoting them. Thus they are still in the light of day but ageplay is now gone underground.

Blog entries from not-all-that-long-ago:

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/04/05/advertising-policy-changes/

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/09/accusations-regarding-child-pornography-in-second-life/

Logical fallacy number one: Gambling is not illegal in the United States and gambling in SL is not clearly covered under its federal statute prohibiting gambling online. All conclusions that it is are speculative at this point.

Logical fallacy number two: Prostitution is not banned in the host nation. There are counties in Nevada near Las Vegas for example, where prostitution is legal. (Metaphorically speaking there is lots of prostitution going on in Washington D.C. in the Congress and the Senate )

Maybe it's because some laws of some nations are based on the subjective values of one nation (which only reflect the view of a segment of the population of that nation which may not even constitute a majority of its citizens) and do not reflect anything even close to basic fundamental values such as mutual respect for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness? Some nations have laws against freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and tolerance of others based on race or gender. Should Linden Labs respect those laws and enforce them throughout the server?

Make your mind up folks.

Second Life is either "second life", or it's "first life in pixellated 3D". It can't be both, because they work to different rules.

Second Life definitely used to be "second life" --- that was made very clear in Philip's visionary statements, repeated very often, years back.

Philip even replied very clearly to a question in the old "Ask Linden" forum that each community of SL would decide its own community standards, and that no other community would be allowed to coerce others to their own worldview. Black and white. It was almost a declaration of "SL Community Freedom".

(The "Ask Linden" forum no longer exists, but presumably it's archived somewhere still --- the Linden statements there were as "official" as it got, very useful historical documentation.)

Anyway, that's where we were. Where are we now?

Personally I would have hoped that the future was for the residents to decide, but it seems that the matter has been taken out of our hands by LL and that all SL communities will be coerced to become nothing more than extensions of First Life. It doesn't look like we have any say in the matter.

The dream of Second Life is dead ... but welcome to the First Life Businessverse instead.

Morg.

Not to mention the prostitution taking place in San Francisco.

It's not legal here in San Francisco or anywhere else in California. It is however, legal in Nevada in designated areas, and the girls whom do that must have permits to work in the cathouse - the cathouse also has a bunch of standards they must abide by.

I never understood that, it's totally illegal except for one place, but the states can't decide if they want to make prostituion legal, I know there are many states that would consider making their own little 'Nevada' for the revenue...

"Gambling is against my religion"

What has religion got to do with it? I don't know what the religion of the op is and am not interested. If your against gambling and want it banned then campaign against it. I wish people would stop using religion as an excuse. Be your own person and post your views, and do not push the beliefs of your religious leaders on me.

hmmm... Good point.. But Against my religion is merely a statement..

As for me... Gambling is stupid. It's like monetary Darwinism...

I say leave em. They all go broke and they all go home. Kinda like virtually yankin the electric plug protectors out

That was a metaphor for linden selling SL out to Corporate interests who will now dictate morality........oh never mind.

Also, if it against your Religion, then don't do it. Simple. You've fufilled your obligation. Now mind your business,and have a nice SL Day.

Word. The SL world is 95% empty most of the time anyway, as far as I can tell. So there are 1 or 2 places that do things you don't like. Just don't go to these places. Does the fact that other people are gambling elsewhere, harm you, personally?

Nobody is forcing you to have electricity in your home, a computer in your room, an Internet connection over your phone line, Second Life installed on your machine, or forcing you to Teleport to any location on an imaginary map of a vast virtual (and mostly empty) world.

The SL world is too big, and too empty, for these Chinese-style censorship rules to be implemented with any sort of consistency. There are alot of disgusting things out there, but not all of them can (or should) be censored. Who says your moral opinions are worth more than mine?

I guess you missed the part in America soceity where money holds absolute power in most cases.

*chuckles*

I like all the wandering this thread has done. Ageplay is basically something that is rampant for one reason or another. It's not a matter of where it is, or not looking at it, and frankly, the idea that I have to leave from a place I enjoy being in because the child RPers want to have sex there is... not gonna happen. One person in this thread actually suggested I leave a plot of land I bought and the home I built if I wasn't happy with what they were up to! Amazing.

The way I see it, what goes on in private is usually none of my concern. But the thing is... it never stays private. I see people walking around with scripted diapers on, making loud scrunching noises and randomly pooping themselves... Why should people have to put up with that again? If it was kept to people of like mind, or even toned down, then it wouldn't be such a big deal... but like anyone who's doing something and being told they shouldn't, those who engage in it basically said, 'Screw you; I'll do what I want, WHERE I want!' They then proceeded to get more and more open about it until someone was caught doing it and banned, resulting in a lockup.

As for the 'corporate control' and 'religious ramifications'? You're all reaching too far abroad. I hope this isn't pushing it too far, but it's called 'covering you ass'. LL doesn't want publicity that SL is a place where child pornography goes on... no matter the country. They don't want the law, the various religious leaders, or the parents looking at the place as somewhere random debauchery goes on. And neither do ANY of you, for or against the new rules. Because first will come the lawsuits, then will come the sanctions, and lastly will come the shutting down of SL. And as much as everyone says it sucks... you still come on and do things, don't you?

LL and SL need to be within certain guidelines, or everything is going to become really difficult to maintain. Imagine an SL where there are no more free accounts allowed, because of the costs of paying fines and fees, or one where you have a permanent ad blaring at you from some quarter of your screen to pay those expenses.

Honestly, if you want to do ageplay, all you need do is not drag it out in public, or in the case of those sad people who actually try to look for young people to rape on SL, not try to turn it into more than a brief fix of companionship online. Have fun, make friends, do things that are private IN private... and I doubt LL will even blink in your direction. All it takes is a bit of intelligence and a sense of what's right and wrong... nothing more.

I went to the ladies room during that part. Sorry

i do not support child molestation but i oculd care less about some old farts making themselves look lik kids on here then fucking.... i would rather them do it on here than real life... so let the age play continue

now while i dont support child molestation i do support gambeling

gambeling is legal in usa and other places... it just needs to be done in a controled state... like the lottery is a controlled state and EVERY state in america has a lotto.... not even A lotto they have multiple lottos... multiple pick your number stuff... some daily some weekly.... like 50 kinds of scratch offs..... and there is also lasvegas and even here in indiana there is a river boat that you can get on and gamble.... its all about it being controled..

soooooo since Linden Labs is already getting taxed by the government for all of their money transfers and servers and employees, building, website, what the fuck ever you can thikn of.... its a controlled state since they are already being taxed for what they do....

so all in all no one is going to be busted for gambeling and it WONT be taken off of second life

also you could go with SL is like a theme park... you go to the theme park you buy some tokens (L$) and you use that to gamble to make more tokens (L$) or win some prizes its the same thing

its not a hard concept

Not to nitpick but 43 States have Lotteries and 27 states allow for Casino Gambling, some of these limited to Indian run Casinos. Ironically Nevada has no lottery. I don't have the figures on Horse and Dog Racing, or Jai Alai.

The reasom Internet Gambling is not allowed is the unregulated nature of it, yes, you don't know who you are dealing with and are they trustworthy but also the tax issue. Not just from a federal level, but state level as well. Each state operates their lottery , some own and operate their race tracks, and receive hefty payouts from Casino operators. With online gambling, no one gets their cut. Figure out a way to do this, and you will be betting online here in a heartbeat.

Now Gambling _IS_ Banned, here. As well as all forms of violence, depictions of ageplay, and _anything_ else found 'broadly' offensive, as said in posts
http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/07/25/wagering-in-second-life-new-policy/
and
http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/31/keeping-second-life-safe-together/

It's so 'nice' to be proven right, sometimes. This is not one of those times.

You American's are crazy.