If AgePlay Is Being Restricted, So Should Gambling...

Under 18's arnt allowed on this grid generally. If the linden's find out they ban but its way to easy to get back on these days. Pedophilia in and of itself isnt illegal Child Molestation is and those people happen to me pedophiles to so people put them hand in hand alot of the time. Pedophilia is the act of being attracted to a child this is a human instinct that most people can control not to act on some people just work differently in that aspect and its how they are born you dont choose to be attracted to a younger person in that aspect but a good deal of them resist the urge and dont act on it.

Child molestation and pedophiles that act on their feelings are illegal but they are the same thing in that light. A Pedophile that act on his actions becomes a Child Molester. Being a pedophile in itself isnt a crime and logically it is something that happens when someone is born. In fact humans have most of their history working against them in that light they used to encourage it due to dying at a young age for a long time. Or guys would marry a much younger girl. It was like that and people were taught that for thousands of years and then we get to this time period and people say its wrong.

Yes their mind works diff but that doesnt make them abnormal most people as i said control it and you probably wouldnt know any better. The media in that light doesnt help either they portray these young singers that are sometimes like 12 or 13 in a almost sexual manner...... This isnt something these people asked for keep that in mind its something they are born with. Yes Molestation and acting on the feelings of pedophilia in this day and age is wrong and illegal i agree. Pedophilia itself is morally reprehensible to most people but that in itself isnt illegal unless its acted upon.

However this is really off subject in that sense. Just because age play is being restricted that doesnt mean something else should be. If people play the if a is done b should be done game we will have everything in SL closed down eventually as it offends someone somewhere.

in a related matter, wanna buy some second-pot?

We all have our little quirks, fetishes, dark sides, buried in our minds somewhere. How far we bring them forward and how we act on them is the difference. What is abhorrent to me may not be to you. There is a disturbing trend it seems to want to punish people for their thoughts, or potential actions. And usually the persecutors have their own demons to worry about.

Regardless of all that, AgePlay is neither paedophilia nor child abuse any more than BDSM can be equated to real torture.

But gambling is really gambling.

Just maybe not according to current laws.

Well, that's partially true. BDSM though doesn't always involve torture. Your basically feeding fantasies of people who are probably already into the lifestyle. And being that BDSM is consensual, it's never been an issue.

Sexual ageplay on the other hand...well, would you be comfortable living next door to someone who does this on Second Life when you have children of your own?

If he's doing it with another consenting ADULT...yes.

Yeah, I would. You know why? "They're basically feeding fantasies of people who are probably already into the lifestyle" or are at least interested in it... "and being that" Sexual Ageplay "is consensual" (as is everything on SL save being griefed and the inevitable crashes), it should never have "been an issue". I've said before that I understand the new policy put in place, but the hysteria stemming from misinformation and poorly made assumptions is just plain wrong.

And BDSM the lifestyle, NEVER involves torture. Torture is torture, not BDSM.
BDSM may simulate torture, but it's always safe. The instant is isn't, it becomes torture and is no longer BDSM.

here's all we need to do to have every illegal rl act stay legal in sl:
add a line to the TOS that restricts anyone who will bust Linden Labs or their clients

It depends on your definition of torture. Sadism and masochism: "Sadism is the sexual or social pleasure or gratification in the infliction of pain and suffering upon another person.
The counterpart of sadism is masochism, the sexual pleasure or gratification of having pain or suffering inflicted upon the self, often consisting of sexual fantasies or urges for being beaten, humiliated, bound, TORTURED or otherwise made to suffer, either as an enhancement to or a substitute for sexual pleasure."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadism_and_masochism

Torture can still be safe. And no one ever talked about BDSM not being safe. It really depends on your definition of torture.

Pan, your inclusion of religion into this discussion, disgusts me. Go preach somewhere else, and let us live the way we want to live.

You want to argue legal vs legal, then do so without bringign your evangelical crap into it.

Seriously...

Ok, so we'll discuss semantics.

Next time, I'll overdefine to sate you.

In fact, I'll go with the wiki definition.

"Torture is defined by the United Nations Convention Against Torture as "any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity." In addition to state sponsored torture, individuals or groups may also inflict torture on others for similar reasons, however, the motive for torture can also be for the sadistic gratification of the torturer, as was the case in the Moors Murders."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torture

There's a difference between wanting to be tortured as part of sex games and actual torture. Having a fantasy about being tortured is no more torture than having a fantasy about elves and unicorns makes them real. Even acting on these fantasies with another consenting adult don't make it torture.

Thank you for playing semantics. Tune in next week where we'll redefine yet another word to suit our needs.


So, in conclusion, you are wrong. It does NOT depend on how you define torture.
BDSM does not include torture. I may involve torture fantasy, but it doesn't include torture.

On next week's show well discuss the Second Life definition of Casino Gaming -

Casino Gaming: none

Simulations which might simulate certain Las Vegas style chance based situations: currently allowed



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One wrinkle in the Ageplay discussion - Robin said they would not interfere if it was not advertized, not promoted, and not visible to anyone but private access.

Yet this Sheepocrit bot stuff its been made clear there is no privacy - does this mean its really just simply banned?

Or do people prefer just to talk out of both sides of their mouths?

Now what about these future automnomous Islands where the TOS no longer applies? Are those allowed Privacy? Allowed Gambling? Allowed previously banned activities?

if sl was in fact a real part of america then ageplay, gambleing, and prostitution would be illegal, the only part of sl that would remain legal is all the guns and yiffing. (yes it's legal to screw your dog but putting money on your luck is soooo wrong)

Actually, ageplay would NOT be illegal, as it occurs between two consenting adults.
Guns wouldn't be illegal? Aren't there legislations on firearms all over the US?

And... um... yiffing is screwing your dog now? Dammit. I didn't get that memo.

WHY AREN'T YOU PEOPLE GETTING ME THESE MEMOS?

Collette, I hold you responsible for me not getting the memo.

Fred, in RL screwing your dog is considered animal abuse in many places.

I'm not sure what you were trying to say here, but I have a feeling it was a "subtle" dig at furries. Not sure why.

I couldn't have said it better myself! If people are so "unhappy" with SL then why do they remain here?

I know this thread will go on forever ... but heres my 2c worth.

The over-riding issue here should be to search for the harm. Who is getting harmed? What needs to be done to reduce it?

The risk of age-play is (a) it potentially encourages paedophiles and (b) it may involve minors if they sneak on SL. Both of these issues have a very high harm potential because children are viewed (correctly imho) as essentially defenseless and vulnerable. Given that, extra steps need be taken to protect them, and this philosophy is embodied in much law and social service.

The risk of gambling is personal loss for an adult who is deemed to be responsible for his own actions. Well, imho this is orders of magnitude less significant than the age-play issue. So much so that it is in the noise floor.

The religious argument holds NO WATER as far as i am concerned. If ur religion finds gambling offensive, then don't partake. No religious conviction, however strongly felt, gives anyone the right to tell *others* how to behave. I find such an idea morally repugnant.

What are you basing these to premises on, other than opinion? I'm just curious.

You asked "Who is getting harmed?"

As far as I can see, no one is getting harmed in either case.

If you apply (b) as a criterion to one, you have to apply it to the other, so:doesn't really apply. If you're going to argue "it may involve minors if they sneak on SL" to ageplay (which doesn't really hold too much water, if y'ask me. It's been a while since I was a minor, but I know that when I DID sneak into things underage, I made DAMN sure to try to cover my tracks. Acting like a child was the LAST thing on my mind), you HAVE to argue that gambling may involve minors sneaking onto the grid and they cannot be deemed, by the very definition, as responsible for their own actions.

As for the religious aspect, I'm just gonna play Devil's Advocate and ask if you don't think that at least some of the hysteria about and revulsion for two consensual adult playing sex games stems from the various religious upbringings we're had and the stigma these upbringings place on sex?

There are many more learned than me who will tell you that Age Play or any other Fetishistic behavior between consenting Adults is an outlet to keep that behavor from being acted out with an unwilling partner. If children are sneaking in, The providers ned to tighten up the sign in process.
If a child sneaks in, Gambling can just as easily be a devastating addiction. A minor, in world illegally could be accessing a Parent's Credit Card, unknowingly to the parent to sign up, go premium, buy lindens ...and gamble. There are many cases of minors running up parents credit bills on a whole plethora of internet related things.

And yes. In RL and in SL, I don't expect to be bound by your religious principles, nor you by mine, or in my case lack thereof. I can tolerate most things except self righteousness.
If my lifestyle is sinful, then that is between me and God. Whoever He/She/It may be.

*There may be one other person concerned about my sinful lifestyle. You know who you are... *

Make that three.

I grow ever concerned with your sins, Brenda.

On your knees to confess at the Church of the Lord High Elvis. *lol*

"Thank You. Thank You very much".

I dont remember any cries of protest

You raise good points and im aware that this is tricky issue. As someone who is gay I am of course acutely aware of issues of bigotry and the ways they can infiltrate thinking. I have no issues with age play between consenting adults ... how could I given my stated position? I'm really concerned with two slightly different things: (a) SL as a back-door for real kids and (b) age-play as a legitimization for pedophilia in the eyes of real or potential pederasts.

The issue, of course, comes down to how much loss of liberty and freedom the harmless majority are willing to tolerate in order to protect a section of society. I drink alcohol from time to time, would i be willing to see it banned to prevent drunk driving? Should we all be strip-searched before boarding planes to prevent another 9/11? In practice many of these issues are one of *degree* -- we tolerate some inconvenience when weighed against the potential risk. IDs when we buy beer, metal detectors at airports. My general philosophy tends toward as little intervention and as much freedom as possible, and this would argue against the ban on age play. But i also have a little (very indirect) knowledge of some of the darker side of age-play and this is very dark indeed. Hence my stated position.

Valid concerns. The back door fo kids, well Linden has to come up with as secure a way as possible to verify age, not easy I know. On ageplay, or any sexually themed activity, how can you Ban it totally. You can disallow advertising, disband any group mentioning the concept, even close public places that may encourage it. but how are you gonna stop two Adult residents from dressing up in ANY particular avatar, go into a Private Home on Private Land and doing you know what. How do you police that, even if you wanted to? I do believe in taking resonanble precautions. But I, personally can't persecute someone for a percieved crime. It may be repugnant for someone to think about molesting a child, but so is thinking about killing your boss, or overthrowing the government. As Chris Rock says:"You can think about it. Just don't do it". Your experience will of course affect your views, I respect that. you should base your opinions on experience, not just throw out something you read on some blog somewhere. I'm just not sold on the idea that this behavior, carried out in a place like SL does escalate to acting it out in RL.

Side note. Strip searching would not have prevented the 9/11 attacks.(Which I experienced all to closely). They were carried out by a group of well funded, well trained fanatics. They would have carried out their mission somehow in that event. The system failed to catch them long before they even arrived at Newark and Boston. There were clues. they were just ignored.

I am offended by all of the people that get offended. You are the reason there is so much sensitivity, censorship, and just plan stripping of the laws and amendments that were first laid down by our forfathers. Now a days all it takes is for some one to cry and whine that this offends them or that offends them, I say if you don't like what you see on the tv change the channel, same applies here in game. If you don't like gambling don't go there, stay away, no one is making you or forcing you to go to a place that has gambling there, but to even compare the two is simply astoundingly obnoxious. I am neither for or against child play. I am however for my rights and soooooo tired of everyone stomping all over them because they are offended. In conclusion should the rights of those who are easily offended be taken away from them because they get offended??? NO... But what gives them the right to take away mine????