The Big Prim Problem

Hmm, I'm getting worried here, based on precedent.

Seems to me that 99.9% of the contributors to this thread want the mega-prims retained but at sensible sizes. Given the opposition to Voice, Age verification and other minor issues I think the 0.1% and LL may have won the arguement again, but maybe the cynic in me is feeling particularly grouchy this morning.

The large prims especially 20x20x.5 (20) are invaluable for builders in SL especially on the smaller lots with lower prim allotments. They are also great for large walkways etc. and the cylindrical prims are the only way to get a smooth well texture circle larger than 10m.

I can't begin to count the number of builds that will be seriously affected if they are taken away...in many cases totally destroyed. The encrochment issue should be dealt with on case by case basis.

A move to get rid of all mega prims would be yet another blow to the SL citizens and I believe instead of a growing community you will begin to see a drop in membership with all the changes.

As I stated earlier. The main problem with these megaprims as it stands now, is that the prim is made from a larger base prim with the majority of it being transparent. a 20 x 20 x0.8 prim is actually significantly bigger than this actual size, according to the physics engine. it is constructed from a 40 x 40 x 40 cube if I remember. and that is what the engine is having to calaculate with, and also giving a 39.2m overhang to the megaprim, which some users are not taking into account.

If LL were to make these smaller mega prims legit and fully editable, so that they are in fact 20 x 20 x 0.8, they would be more manageable and should reduce any parcel encroachment problems.

And why start on the mega prims as abuse agents. scripted poofers and noise makers are more of a problem from what I've seen, unless you call the indiscriminate use of these megaprims as parcel border screens, making everywhere cubiod and un-navigable, not to mention that people only seem interested in what their side of the screen looks like, without fitting the textures in with the surrounding landscape.

Unless these smaller megaprims cause problems with the physics engines etc, and LL can come out with evidence to show this, not just hearsay, then these smaller megaprims should be allowed as official editable prims, same as microprims should also be allowed and fully editable.

I love building with these prims .... but surely anything over 100m is a bit excessive

Remove all MegaPrims, and allow residents to construct their own prims up to 50m in size.

i tried to visit this sim and got booted straight out by the orb

for arguments for removing megaprims from mainland I see no argument against it. people renting there already know that the land is heavily managed by LL.

however in the case of private sims LL should take a hands off approach if they do end up having any issues with them it's the sim owners problem not LL's.

Some of the Mega prims are not nessicary on this game for sure the ones that take up a whole sim definately not needed. I wonder if we can't keep mega prims if LL could incorporate the 20x20 blocks into the building objects system? Those are the most useful for building well buildings structures for stores, houses, and basically any very large object where prim space is sparring.

Prohibition never works in a society with socially desired actions or products. I would suggest that since megaprims are a solution to a Linden problem of prim limitations, that the Lindens produce some good megaprims that work without affecting the physics engines and the like. In this way, such as the legalization of whiskey, you would have control over them and not be negatively impacted.

Thanks,

Fnertin Schmo

Agreed. I admire your logic.

I think most people use mega prims for walls and ceilings, but for our project sphere prims are the most important... They are used to represent sky spheres with 95% hollow and are regarded as a dome of a planetarium. To gain smooth rotation of starfield and necessary scale, we decided to use them instead of building a dome with multiple triangle prims. The results are satisfactory, and we hope these prims can be used for future creations. We use 40m spheres and we set them as phantom.

Attaching the example implementation:

http://slurl.com/secondlife/aoba/31/41/76/

I think the megaprims are required for a building base as many have stated.

The worst part about them is they are not standard prims and you can't modify them so there is a limitation which could be solved if there was someone at LL who could look into them and fix them so they were able to be used like standard prims.

The problem with abuse is not related to mega prims it's related to all prims, I have seen far more 1x1 prims being used for abuse in sandboxes and other areas than I have seen megaprims.

Abuse is abuse that's that. megaprims are megaprims..

Perhaps the answer here is to remove the limit of prim size creation and allow them up to 256m I mean would that not make the most sense?

If the limitation can't be removed then my vote is keep mega prims.

trever coronet Says:

October 12th, 2007 at 1:47 PM PDT
They can be useful when building homes and structures. I have saved close to 100 prims, on walls, floors and cielings alone. Without my mega prims, I would have to remove one of the structures on my property, just to make more room to make conventional walls and flooring



Have to agree with you 100% Trever. I can't imagine building multistory homes without these megaprims. We were able to reduce prim count by almost half on one 1065sqm three-story home by using textured megaprims as opposed to six regular prims for each floor, wall, etc. I think those who are creative enough to use these mega prims should be recognized for trying to reduce the overall number of in-world high-prim objects that Linden Labs has to maintain.

Anything over 40x40x40 will create problems but theres no reason to get rid of the smaller prims...infact if we had the option of creating something bigger than 10x10x10's, houses and larger scale projects would be 100times better than before, the think reason most of us use these prims to begin with..especially the 20x20x.5 is they are GREAT for large scale buildings or floors for low prim homes, Infact my shop http://slurl.com/secondlife/The%20Dust/180/144/22 has the 20x20x.5 as floors and roof.

By using these larger prims I saved 12prims that i can use for other pictures or objects that i wouldn't of normally had access to with the current prim sizes

Just about anything in SL can be used in ways to be a nuisance, so using that reason to ban megaprims is no reason at all. Megaprims, or rather, prims larger than the 10m limit are quite useful for architecturual constructs. Practical uses are for faux water, a long trail through the forest, parts of a building's core structure, tall trees (redwoods and firs *are*, after all, nearly 100 meters tall). So, limiting prims to the 10m limit seriously reduces the flexibility and ability to do these things.

If the world offered local contour following water, if 10m prims could be linked to become a unitary flexi prim group then perhaps some of the reasons for the use of these oversize prims might vanish. But these features do not exist and the need for larger sized prims remain.

If you are looking to mitigate the problem, I'd suggest raising that 10m limit to something more reasonable, say, fully functioning prims up to 50 meters. Above that, permit super prims up to 256 meters but force them to be phantom, assuming that simplifies the physics interactions.

But please, do not banish them outright.

20x20x.5 is great anything more than that is a nuisance, espically when they put a pure alpha texture on all sides or an invisible prim script in them so they cant be seen but you run into an invisble barrier that streaches multiple parcels wtith multiple owners and its impossible to detect other than standing on them. there great for large builds where primlimits almost require them, you can build a 100m tall building with less prims but the down side is that griefers and immature almost childish people will use these to cause problems. dont get rid of them but limit their size, 40x40 or even 20x20 is the most anyone should need

We NEED big prims. For those of us who own smaller plots of land on the mainland, we need a method to screen out the neighbor's ugly archetecture without wiping out our prim counts.

There is nothing to stop someone from building a hideously ugly building if they want. But why should I have to look at it from my land if I don't want to?

Abuse will always happen no matter what system you have. Improve the abuse reporting system, then, don't take our tools.

If you do, you'll be setting up the mainland for and endless series of squabbles, the result of which will be the mainland turning into a vast surburban tract.

Here's an idea, create a new class of big-prims. Anything larger that 10m has to be PHANTOM. That will limit the drain on the physics engine. Or restrict them so that one axis must be paper-thin. But please leave my screens, I can't stand that ugly nightclub next door.

Frankly, the 250m no fly zones are FAR more of a problem from my prospective, you can't SEE the buggers, so there you are zipping along and you get snared by one and your flying machine is stuck until someone gives it back.

Lindens please do not forget to read this thread as well

http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=25999&highlight=mega+prims

There are several valid uses for megaprims, but I would say it should be ok to restrict them to private estates if it will help the grid's performance. Typically, unless you own the whole mainland sim, you have no business rezzing a several-hundred-meter sphere above your neighbor's backyard.

The valid uses include things like:
Elevator supports in tall buildings ('guides' for moving objects)
Single-prim bases for things like skyscrapers and large buildings(see the Silicon Island sim for examples of this working well)
Sim border pictures, so the sim doesn't look like it just ends with an endless ocean.
Separate 'levels' to a sim (put a 256x256x5m prim at 300ft, texture with grass, second ground level or something)
You can make effects with the larger ones. One of my megaprims is named 'Moon' for a good reason (a 150m sphere at 500m looks a lot like a huge horizon moon, or another planet, or another sun)

There are some things which are annoying - I have seen weapons that rez megaprims which should be something of an instant ejection from the sim or SL in general. That lags the hell out of everyone in the sim, and has no valid purpose.

These should *not* be allowed in sandboxes. That annoys the piss out of me and several others who have mentioned it.

Just my $0.02.

-Rob

I have been building and using the mega-prims since the end of 2006 on my own main land property and on privately owned estates and I have had only good results. They reduce the number of prims in larger builds significantly. However I only use the ones under 50m in size and mostly the 20x20x0.5 in walls. I am very careful to stay within the boundaries of the property I am working in. However, I have noticed some of the longer prims say they are 50m through 100m but when highlighted in ‘Edit’ mode it becomes obvious that they are actually 100m and have a solid feel past the transparent part, which would cause problems if used. In my experience it does not work to hollow, cut, or change them in any way other then to change their color and/or texture. I would vote for keeping at least the smaller ones. They are a major help and it would be wrong to remove them based on unproven issues.

Personally, I'd like to see a more complete package of megaprims with more variants of size. I like the idea one person stated of offering more prims if megaprims are taken, but in no way do I want to see that happen. Abuse or boundary overhang should be dealt with on that basis and that issue should not be compounded with the particular object being used whether it be or not be a megaprim.

As far as utility, I think the arguments listed here well illustrate their positive values and I'm not really seeing much legitamate argument against them in so much as abuse and boundary overhang, in essense, is not a megaprim issue. It may create more work and labor cost to continually deal with megaprims themselves...that may be the hidden issue? Maybe a Linden could answer that.

I believe that allowing, for instance, Island owners to have oversized and mainland not allowed the same privilege would create an outcry of inequity. If they wish to maintain a sense of equality, I suppose it would be good not to favor island owners...they already have terrain modification rights which is understandable.

Megaprims over water has pros and cons...Most people here list in favor of MPs for that purpose. It has not been stated here that bay areas have been devastated by on water builders. For instance, you have twelve owners or so who bought premium priced property near the water to enjoy the view. Next thing that occurs is a tower and mall is built up over the water and completely blankets it...no more view and the residents are screwed, because the big mall owner didnt care about the residents. Now, this can be done without Megaprims and is not necessarily a MP issue, but this idea simply responds to the listings of ideas about Megaprims over water. And, of course building over water does not always present this issue as it is done many times to suit and compliment the enviornment.

All in all, I am totally for the use of Megaprims!

Dearly Darling,

I've never used them as I thought they were not allowed. If I was to use them in would be for architectural and landscape purposes only.

I hope this helps you make your decision.

You have a lovely weekend!

Ever Yours,

Mrs. Showdog Tiger

I use these prims for my shop in Ambat. Saves a ton for vendors and display models.
Lets face it. Griefing will take place no matter what. Large or small prims will not matter.
The real solution would be to find a better way to deal with the greifing topic.
But no, maybe we should focus on destroying the world of SL instead?

If the physics of Havok 4 can't take it then put a cap on any prim larger than 10 meters. Don't allow them to turn physical.


Better yet. Lets do a little math on the parcel detection.
When a prim is placed or moved just calculate the bounding box size and see if it is crossing another parcel.
Much like collision detection can do in real time with physical prims but only have it activate once when it's location is changed.
That may add a tiny bit of lag while editing but since everything else is adding lag would it really be that big a deal? The benifit would be worth it to me.
That would help not only with the griefing of large prims but also with any other size.

I mean there are many other options that may not be easy but it sure is less destructive.


Instead of hacking off limbs lets do some work and fix what really needs fixing.

Like so many people I use large prims in my home build. It's only a 40x40x40 sphere but I use video projection on the inside which would make a multipart sphere pretty much useless to me.

I think that anything over 100x100x100 should be scrapped. That leaves plenty of options for creating items smaller than this but basically cuts out those monster MEGA prims.

Yes I have seen these prims abused but like so many things you can't cut it out just because it's a bit of a nuissance.

Actually maybe 100x100x100 is too big, I'd be happy with 50x50x50. If they'd allow items to be linked that are further apart.

Go look at the island "BEST OF ROTTERDAM" and see for yourself the use of megaprims. I'm hurting nobody here.

Please !

Boz.