Idea for limiting prim hogging.

The difference is that WE did it as a whole community. Not bent on keeping others from being able to build, but to keep others in line with what's already been built.

The Neighborhood Association is for the greater good of the community. A "Prim Bank" is for the good of one person.

How does it serve the good of someone who wants to live in Slate but not be beholden to the association or be subject to its rules? It doesn't. Therefore it exists to protect the interests of the people who already live there, and as such, is just as selfish at its core. Again, nothing wrong with it... but a spade is a spade.

This is a game design issue. Not a player one. It keeps cropping up because the game makes it a natural conclusion.

The simple fact of the matter is that if anybody has a long term or large scale building vision of any kind, they will be FORCED to bank prims periodically to keep it going. I know what I'm talking about; with the possible exception of very few players, I've probably pushed building way further than anybody in SL, and in spite of having most of my work destroyed by Tyrell, I still have a house with a a lot of detail in Natoma, a sim that was prim-full before the game even released to the public. Had I never banked objects, I would have been endlessly frustrated while waiting for the transient-du-jour to pass through so I could get back to work.

Who is the greater offender? Somebody with a plan who has 1000 prims in the world and 100 banked to keep it going, or somebody who uses 100 prims to build a structure that serves no purpose other than to sit there and take up resources?

While I still dislike the There.com policy of approving objects before they are put in world, I do see their point. It's not just about control or preventing malicousness, it's also about whether or not the object is worth taking up server resources for. The SL sandbox is a nod to this; you want to experiment, plz do it here. When you have a plan, then pick your sim carefully and go for it. But even then, taxes and prim counts will eventually get in your way.

Consider this before you start ragging on people with a plan who are keeping a few dozen extra prims around. Maybe they just want to finish what they started.

Well, here we must agree to disagree.

I see the Neighborhood Association as a group of members who want to preserve their surroundings and therefore took the steps to do so.

In no way do we tell people how many PRIMS they can or can't use, only that the build they have must be in accordance with the surroundings we have worked so hard at.

We allow others to join the Association therefore we are not "hogging" the resources, but if/when someone joins they are required to keep their builds within the community standards. This is not hogging resources, this is merely maintaining our heritage in Slate. We all have agreed to live by these rules as well, and anyone that wishes to join us, agrees to these rules too.

Therefore, the Association is for the greater good of the Slate Community. You may not like what the Slate Community is, but at the same time, we aren't asking that you move in and build according to our likes. We look for people to join us that will want to build according to the look and feel established. Much like in Darkwoods, you couldn't get land there and build a techno-building without someone telling you to take it down. We are doing the same thing, with the exception that we bypassed the idea of "buying" a SIM.

HUGE difference between Darkwoods and Slate Bob. Darkwoods is a themed community, specifically allocated by the admins for the purpose of building that sort of thing.

Slate is not. The only rules there are player created. While it's often a good thing for players to work as a group such as yours, your rules and standards are not official in any way and no player is bound to adhere to them.

Ultimately, your approach is probably the most SL-realistic one though, as for the most part themed communities have been doing nothing but rotting since the tax changes.

Of course, I did mention twice now that the difference is that WE did NOT "buy" our own SIM.

We know that Slate Neighborhood Association is not an officially recognized organization by LL and therefore if someone comes into Slate and decides to do whatever they want, we have no control over it.

The purpose of the Slate Neighborhood Association was and is, to protect the surrounding beauty of Slate. The group of people that have made up the Slate Neighborhood Association have spent their own money to buy up the land and put it in a Holding Group. We have all agreed to build to a certain standard. We, the group of us, have all agreed to this, and we, the group of us, have all agreed to search out residents that will live by the same standards we place ourselves under.

We haven't bought up the SIM because we want to control it's resources, we aren't holding anyone to a prim count, we are preserving the Slate area. While everyone else was complaining about how so and so built this next to thier property, the Slate Residents took it upon themselves to safeguard Slate from that happening. It wasn't my decision, it was OUR decision. We all worked together as a group to make this community.

You are right, our rules don't hold much water, but then again, if you want to buy land and live in Slate, we will ask that you live by those rules everyone of us live by as well.

Wow. Inappropriate same sex advances, selfish community associations, prim hogs, prim sluts, etc......I thought the Dance Groups post turned nasty, my word....

Object limits, prim hogging, prim banks, intricate builds, etc... are all hot button issues in SL, so it is no surprise that it has ellicited such, eh, colorful responses. Chip is right though - this cycle has repeated itself over and over again. It is made all the worse right now by the fact that we want more sims, and do not seem to be getting any, and the 10,000 prim limit has not moved at all.

The longer we tend to live in sim and your building skills increase, the more intricate the builds often become. I am an example of that, as I now have hotel, bar and house, all connected to each other using docks and a bridge to connect surrounding properties. This has been months and months in the making, and I am extremely efficient with prims - I make textures to accomplish a lot of effects, because I hate using extra prims. Until the past month and a half, the object usage crept up very slowly, never hovering above 75%, and then suddenly spiked to over 95% when a few prim heavy properties suddenly appeared. I did not come along and drop a 2000 prim house in a sim that I just moved into, yet I was called a prim hog by a neighbor who thankfully has moved on to terrorize another sim. When I had the nerve to make a bank of a whopping 30 prims so I could finish what I was working on, that was met with outrage by same said neighbor, whose place used far more prims than mine.

The bottom line is that we all want to have the freedom to build, without running into limits. The reality is, they exist for technical and other reasons, and we need to find a way to get along and not snipe at each other about it. These places become our virtual neighborhoods, and like our real neighborhoods, we tend to get territorial and protective. People will move out, prim limits will ultimately be raised, and all will be right with the world again.

Federal dropped back to 85% for a little while after people moved, but then respiked again when someone moved in with some prim heavy builds. Will it drop again? I hope so. Until then I will just wait, and not freak out, and certainly not attack anyone here.

PS - I do not agree with Briana's suggestion because I am loathe to suggest any new taxes as we are taxed to death now as it is, and we should not be penalized for creating larger builds.

In regards to Bob and the association in Slate...

I think it is an excellent idea, and I don't find what they are doing there selfish. I had a chance to visit Slate the other day, and was impressed by how cohesive the area is. They had the foresight to purchase the land, and I applaud their efforts to build a community, instead of the constant barrage of random nothingness that exists in a lot of sims. I have worked with my neighbors in Federal to create some semblance of a neighborhoodl, and it has been paying off in terms of creating a cohesive area. What they have done in Slateis no different than Darkwood or any other themed sim, they just did it without the official blessing of LL, which I find impressive.

Let me restate that I have nothing against Slate and what they did there was smart. I personally wouldn't want to live there because it doesn't suit my own selfish interests. Any time an individual or a group of people get together and make rules or take actions that limit what other people can and cannot do to protect their own individual or community interests, that is a form of self interest. Self interest = selfish. Being selfish is not necessarily a bad thing. It's very often the smartest thing to be.

The thread was not started to complain. It was started as a suggestion for our community to exam, especially enlight of the fact that I had to reserve prims so I did not lose the purpose of my properties project by the sim filling.

Banning someone for choosing to pay for an amount of prims they feel they need to reserve to finish the job does not make sense.

I can just as easily lay down an object that takes up 100-200 prims, forgoing the boxes and just de-rez said object when the need for prim boxes arises.

This is all relative - high prim objects or multiple box prim banks. The message was: "perhaps those of us who choose high prim usage should pay more than those efficient builders." However, not all of us know how to make textures for a bench instead of making 11 planks for the seat and 11 more for the back of the bench.

The lesson i have learned is this:

Forums are little more than fighting rings. Twice I have posted an original thread and twice the initial responders ignored the substance of the post choosing direct personal attacks.

The nature of these boards is one that does not invoke rational or well thought out responses from the majority, but more often than not, quips and angry remarks meant to insult and embarass.

If one cannot say something either helpful or nice, then why not just say nothing at all? It is much easier to read only a portion of the message before clicking reply and firing off an angry retort which addresses none of the issues related to the post.

Please feel free to attack this as well, since it seems that is what some of us here do best.

Briana Dawson - someone who will no longer post original thoughts in this forum.

I have watched Briana be attacked for her posts, and I have to agree with her - this post turned very nasty very quickly. While I certainly understand both sides of this, what she was suggesting does have merit, and instead of responding to her suggestion, she got attacked. Granted, the message is a bit dulled coming from someone who is perceived as hogging prims in the first place (which is where some of the nastiness came from), but regardless, most people did not respond to her actual suggestion, they just jumped on the "But Briana, you have prims stored under your house" train. Yes, forums are for voicing your opinion, and yes those opinions can get heated, but she seems to be singled out at times and I don't quite understand why. I hope she does continue to post, since I have always found her suggestions interesting, even if I have not always agreed with them.

For what it is worth - I'm a prim-heavy builder right now.

I plan on moving my house and completing it in the Sandbox, just popping it into my inventory after each stage is completed, rather than strain the resources of where I'm at now. It isn't fair to the residents of Gray or my neighbor Millie Thompson.

Right now, the house is about 60-70% complete, but I can tell that my drive for detail is going to raise the prim usage a bit. Maybe I'm insane, perhaps I'm waiting when the limits are raised due to some technical advance, I don't know. But I can tell you that I just can NOT abide by making a hollow box, a frame in the wall and calling it home. That's my selfish choice, and I realize this.

So, this thread may be all about bashing prim-users in all their forms, but honestly what it is all about is the straining of creativity against the hard limit of primitive usage. My solution is to mothball my prim-heavy build and perhaps work on it where it won't impact everyone. That is the only short-term solution I have.

It is only natural that people will think towards the future and 'bank' prims for building. I think at some level we all do it, whether its some details that we could easily convert into something else (making it a prim bank, but a functional decor one) or just having a extra cube somewhere that isn't really necessary - but it LOOKS GOOD.

So - in long-winded conclusion, I'm a prim-heavy builder (proud of it actually - there's a difference to using a lot of prims wastefully and making something really solid and beautiful - but that is another topic.) but I will do what I can to not impact my fellow sim-citizens.

Thanks for reading.

Briana, I think it also may be the way you deliver your messages. Im not the only one who thinks you come across a little harsh sometimes.

I'm very excited by the system in place in the new Olive where people's prim supply is limited to the proportion of the sim they own. If you own 1/32 of the sim you get 1/32 of the object limit. Under this system there is no need or reason for prim banks, and it's impossible for someone to fill the sim and thwart your building project.

On the downside you are limited. In my opinion this is infinitely preferable to the every-man-for-himself approach current in most of SL.

I'm not sure I like the idea of neighborhood associations dictating building practices but Bob does have a very good point: most of us build inefficiently and could reduce our prim use without significantly affecting the quality of our builds. For everyone's sake, until a better solution, let's all take a look at what we build and ask ourselves if we can do it better.



Welcome to the Internet. Enjoy your stay.

To be honest Cris, most of this has already been hashed over in far more detail in the thread I linked. So maybe there's not much left but kill the messenger? ;)

Anyhow, if you're guilty of what is percieved as one of the causes of the problem under discussion, you better put on that asbestos underwear, maybe two layers.

Loki is right. If I move into a sim and I'm ready to build *right now*, I shouldn't be stymied by prim hoarders. If a sim is too full, you should wait for someone to delete some of their stuff and then build more at that point. I recently moved into Clementina, and that is just what I had to do, put it together in two passes on separate days.

By the way, I find that proposing a way to alleviate prim usage when you have a stack of blocks under your house is hilarious, and when I saw the screenshot someone took, I just had to say "OH SNAP!!!"

I think prim hoarding in general is bull$#!%.

It does to me!



Who are you to decide what is rational and what is not? Banning prim bankers makes perfect sense to me because they are taking away from the fun of the people who live in the same sim. You have a bunch of cubes, HIDDEN. Banned! That's my OPINION. And just because it doesn't make you feel good, doesn't mean it was a personal attack. It was an idea, an opinion, and I should have the right to express it dontchathink?

Well.. Ive only ever posted one message that was my personal opinion and could be construed as "harsh" and that was the clothes message.

So saying that my "messages" (plural) are harsh, is in fact, untrue - A single (one) mesage i posted was harsh.

But yet, once again; the substance is ignored so that I may be gored.

The first posters who repsonded to this message only wished to exploit my prim reserve as hypocrisy when it is anything but that since i never said it was wrong, only that i should pay more tax.

The very fact that someone travelled to our home to show this, is proof that they had only bad intentions in their response.


Briana Dawson

Yes you do, and you do it quite well.

The prims were not hidden. THey were originally in the harbor in the open for all to see. But i sold that land and thus had no place to put them except below structure.

Sinking them below the ground would have been hiding them.

And what is rational and what is not, is my opinion, which i have a right to express, 'dontchathink'?

Briana Dawson

Why thank you Brianna.

But you do realize you broke your promise to never post another original thought to these forums



And just to stay on topic, the way prims are managed in the new Olive sounds like the best solution.

I can't help but think some of the negative posting about Bri is, well, lets say a little personal. For some people I don't think it matters what Bri says or posts, they'll just attack.

First - this is not an attack


I am very interested and supportive - at least for now - about this way to restrict some people's need for buying 20% of land and 80% of prims too.

I also find Briana's sugestion a good one - and I dont see how that will discourage new people from building(?) as they can still - like everyone else - use "their share" of the prims at no extra tax costs. Only if they exeed that amount will they be taxed higher.
One question tho, Briana - would they then be taxed higher on ALL of their prims or on the exceeded amount only? To have any effect I'd go for the ALL of the prims...

I am in a sim now where our lag is tremendous and we - Cai and I - are thinking about relocation. Takes us several minutes to load our place and we have people complaining about this as well. We have some really prim and script heavy neighbours - with some of SL's most beautiful places - but that doesnt matter when you try to run the game from your own place.
That really sucks as we have a wonderful location...

What a bunch of drama

personally I still don't understand the idea of having a house in SL - you can't live in it, can't eat food, can't eliminate wastes, can't breathe or smell the air/water/ground/plants.

I understand about building a place of your dreams - that's cool. But when I see a house filled with millions of appliances and little objects just like a real house I kind of wonder about SL, that AV and just what they are thinking.

I see SL as a way to create bizarre, fun things, objects, buildings, etc., in a manner I couldn't possibly do so in the real world. Yes, all the 'open' virgin land in Slate and other areas is nice and pretty, but its a computer game. One in which you can do many different things aside from making a 'community' like RL. Why 'preserve' it? It is meant to be changed, played with, explored. Why limit yourself with an association to keep it that way unless its a themed sim?


You want community, make a gathering place, where AV's can sit and people can hold events. As SL stands now, a house is not private unless you ban people from a far enough distance. Even then they probably could look in or hover above you.

I'd love to be a prim hog! Heck, I was thinking of derezzing a few items just so I could open some objects I bought from people. Instead, I gave up the dwell bonus and went to the sandbox. I should be able to open something occaisionally. Hmm, maybe I'll create a 1000 prim object in the sandbox and one day just place it hidden on my land.

i owned some land in Olive for a little while and i have friends there and i like that system a lot too. that's all i have to say. except that i don't like prim hogging either. who does?