Commercializm Poll

I don't think that should be a major concern, though, Cat. I've been in just about every major store in SL already (I'm a major shop-a-holic, what can I say? ) and what I've seen convinces me of the following points as I develop ideas for my own store...

* You don't need a large display area just to sell things. I have a pair of Big Blue vendors and a couple of other vending script prims that I can use, and which would hold most of what I want to sell as long as the customer is willing to click on the ">>" arrow to see the next item.

* Most display space in stores is actually devoted to things that draw the eye, be it large advertising posters, hovering text, free items, particle effects, landmark-making scripts, etc.

* For store owners, the problem is MUCH less how much space they have than it is how visibly they're advertised. I've found some terrific items that never come up on the Want Ads and are in tiny stores. But I venture to guess that most of these don't get any foot traffic other than random and accidental.

So if I can put my website on a prim in a small space, it's more efficient for me on the one hand but it also means I need to do something to show my customer that, if they bother to dig through my website they're going to find an item like the ones in my display posters. Or, heck, may as well script the poster so it actually sells it. It's nothing more than Application of Sales Philosophy 101. The web-on-a-prim thing isn't going to replace the way things are done. It will add a new method. In many ways, it's actually superior to the current scripted prim method.


Right now there is, yes, but only because the ROI for outside companies to market inside SL just isn't there. Major companies aren't going to spam SL with ads and billboards unless they can show that it will pay for them. Once that happens, however, it will come as surely as rain. But I think commercial enterprises are smart enough -- certainly they live by the relentless truth of Natural Selection more than most of us -- to know that it won't be enough to just put up signs or sell virtual Nike sneakers for the real-world equivalent 30 cents each. If they want to make a splash and generate justifiable revenue, they need to (a) please their prospective customers, (b) offer something of value that we feel we really need.


Forget the billboards for one second -- they're really nothing more than a way to put one's product in front of the public's eyes. But what if a RL casino approached you and offered to rent a large tract of your island and hire people to host events? What if they offered to lease advertising space on the sides of your buildings, paying you a nice stipend for something that doesn't add anything but a different texture?


Actually I was thinking of them offering SL jobs but if they got RL jobs out of it too, so much the better The real-dollar profit to be made in SL isn't very remarkable yet, but it's on a scale with in-world SL incomes. So you might be selling 30 cent shoes, but you might also be paying your sales manager 30 cents an hour. That's roughly $75L to $80L per hour.

Sorry, but this is bull too.


Who exactly is the US protecting Canada against?

Canada has zero enemies. During the cold war period we were one of the few countries that had cordial relations with the Soviet Union. We have always had better relations with most countries than the US.

I am not advocating this, but from a military standpoint the only significant invasion threat to Canada is...
You guessed it, the United States.

The most statistically likely event that would cause a great loss of Canadian life druring a war? ...

Well over *what* country do you think most of your interceptors will explode their nuclear targets? And people wonder why Canada is not in favour of the militarisation of space?
Get a grip.

The US has a long history of treating Canada shabbily on trade and legal issues as well as territorial ones. You can bet if there was anything up here that was wanted, (andt there might be some day), the US would just come up and take it.

Why do you think we are all so terribly nice and polite up here? We are used to living next door to the biggest bully on the block of course. We are adept at making the bully *think* we like him, so he wont beat us up! We usually just hand over our lunch money without a word for the same reason.



It's abundantly clear to me, that the average US citizen has no idea about Canada or Canadians or Europe or Europeans. Everything you have spouted here, is right off the headlines at CNN or out of Georges mouth.

Dogma and Jingoism.

I find it amusing that you folks believe it.

After reading up on Supernova 2005 I can honestly say I don't think it realy matters what I think about marketing or commercialism in SL. What will happen to SL will be decided by LL.

SuperNova 2005

Cat

Yes, exactly.

Has anyone believed differently?

Well, I doubt that "talking to" Hitler, or "being sad" over what he was doing would have done the world much good at all.

In any case, I think we have explained ourselves and our positions enough on this, particularly insofar as it's not what the thread's about.

If I really wanted to talk about these things, I would hang out in political or off-topic forums. That is why it is good, Diane, that you said you will not be dropping these little asides in here and there that tend to get me and others going when I am otherwise reading along happily on the topic at hand. I do appreciate that.

coco

Apparently I'm the dumbass who has blindly believed the words of LL.

When I was just a little girl,
I asked my mother, "What will I be?
Will I be pretty?
Will I be rich?"
Here's what she said to me:

"Que sera, sera,
Whatever will be, will be;
The future's not ours to see.
Que sera, sera,
What will be, will be."

When push comes to shove, LL will follow the money. The survival of Second Life is their meal ticket, they will do what they feel gives it a better shot for survival.

(1st verse)

Well you filled up my head,
With so many lies.
Twisted my heart
Til something snapped inside.
I'd like to give it one more try
but my give a damn's busted.

You can crawl back home
say you were wrong,
stand out in the yard
cry all night long.
Well go ahead and water my lawn.
My give a damn's busted.

(chorus)

I really wanna care,
I wanna feel somethin'
Let me dig a little deeper...
Nope...
Sorry...
Nothin'

(2nd verse)

You can say you've got issues.
You can say you're a victim.
It's all your parents fault,
After all you didn't pick em
Well maybe Oprah's got time to listen.
My give a damn's busted.

(*Well let me get this straight now)
Your therapist said
It was all just a phase
A product of the prozac
And your co-dependent ways
So uhh ... who's your enabler these days
My give a damn's busted.

(chorus)

I really wanna care,
I wanna feel somethin'
Let me dig a little deeper...
Eeh-Eeh

(3rd verse)
(*Oh you're tellin' me)
It's a desperate situation,
No tellin' what you'll do.
If I don't forgive you,
You say your life is through.
Well honey... give me somethin' I can use.
(My give a damn's busted.)
(*Ahh you knew I was gonna say that, didn't ya.)

My give a damn's busted (*ha ha)
My give a damn's busted
Honey trust me
My give a damn's busted yeahhh ...
OOOH
My give a damn's busted yeahhh
(*You wanna do what?)(*ha ha ha ha ha)
My give a damn's busted
(*Get the party started thats what we'll do)
My give a damn's busted
(*I'm not done honey, trust me)
My give a damn's busted
(*Been there, done that)
My give a damn's busted
My give a damn's busted

You have good relations with Germany during WWII? You would be speaking German right now if it wasn't for your bully big Brother.

Jeska, I think it's about time you do your magic in here

My Give A Damn's Busted

OK, let's try to keep this topic focused on SL and not let it spin into off-topic things like RL political discussions. That type of discussion belongs in the Off-Topic forum.

Thanks.

Sorry, I almost forgot the topic lol

From: Dianne Mechanique

The most sucessful strategy to ensure such thing dont hapen again, is actually turning the other cheek and perhaps even *talking* to the terrorists. Trying to understand them and *why* they hate the US do much would do far more than bombs in terms of increasing your security, and it would not infringe apon your freedom.

Good heavens, I leave the thread to do some work and when I come back it's devolved into a political peeing contest -- with THIS absolute nonsense tossed in for good measure.

Dianne, that statement is so incredibly naive I'm afraid there's nothing I can do for you. You can not negotiate with terrorists. It's been tried before. Every negotiation in the past has resulted in only more attacks after the thugs realize their tactics actually work. You're talking about people who are only to happy to die to further their 'cause', and negotiations are impossible. Trying to understand "why they hate us" does no more good than understanding why Hitler hated Jews. Some people hate without reason.

In your very own words, repeated back to you:

From: someone

Sorry, but this is bull too.

I'm still puzzled as to what any of that has to do with commercialism in SL. It was a good topic.

From: someone

Who exactly is the US protecting Canada against?

PeeWee Herman, of course.

From: someone

Why do you think we are all so terribly nice and polite up here?

Obviously you've never gotten into an argument with a drunk Québécois.

Ok Cin lets get this sucker back on track

How do you think the introduction of HTML in 1.7 will affect Malls in SL?

Cat

Figures you would reach for the WW II reference.

Again, if you LOOK IT UP instead of just spouting what you heard in a movie or on Oprah, you will see that it is an entirely different story. It is much more complex than you make out for starters.

I am tired of arguing about this however and most people on this forum really dont want to listen to this crap I find.

I am not sure what either one of us expects to get out of it and I am beginning to feel like I am arguing with a copy of People magazine.

I have an excellent background in History, probably more than you I believe, and you just haven't said enough here to justify all the typing I have to do in response to this drivel.

Rah, rah, America is greaat!
Freest country in the world.
The whole world owes them a favour.



Yeah right.

Good bye.

I see it as an adjunct more than a replacement. I think it will allow more compact sales of items and scripts, allow more businesses per sq.m. or more display space for eye appeal.

I thought of you just now. I was reading this article on the state of the internet.

Times Online


And ...


A few years ago, no one really thought the Internet had any place left to go. Now, we see the influence of things like Paypal, Ebay, blogs, and with Second Live we are beginning to see the next revolution: Virtual worlds. If we could not predict something as simple as EBay, how can we accurately predict the future of Virtual Worlds?

On a humorous note, I also found this from Elon U's website - "Imagining the Internet - Predictions Database". This was apparently written by a freshman and a pessimist:


Anyone want to go in with me on time shares in a hut or something?

I’ve been on the internet since bbs days oh lord I’m showing my age again. Change has come by leaps and bounds, that is so true. I remember way back when my 15 sec of fame over a html slide show LOL stuff like that is a dime a dozen now. Oh yes its been a long ride.

I saw a commercial and the punch line was “you have reached the end of the internet”. Well not so long ago everyone knew all the kewl spots on the web I would imagine as time has gone on and we watched the rise and fall of the internet we also learned a few things along the way.

Are we destined to repeat the same mistakes we made in this new virtual space? I doubt it, seems some of the greatest minds of the information age have a clue about sl and its potential. I have no idea of the next occurrence in this age, but if the last 20 years are any indication its going to be a wild ride. Huts oh hell no, but I do have my eye on a sea side condo with wireless internet

Cat

Hi Cindy,

Apologies for unintentionaly hijacking the thread a bit. I am (almost) too tired of butting my head against this particular wall anyway.

If only i could paly SL at work, I would not be sucked into the hellish vortex that is the forums.

Couple of things to consider...

- Negotiation does sometimes work (IRA is the best recent example) and war *never* works, so whats the harm in trying? Someone who hates you *that* much, is pretty much never going to stop. This leaves two options, either wipe them out, (which involves some pretty bloody and inhuman stuff, I mean we are talking auschwitz there). Or the other thing you can do is make "friends" with them. I dont mean that naively, in this particular case, I mean something more along the lines of "make friends with the arab world." Stop blowing them up taking them over and taking away their land. Stop trying to sell them coca-cola or Kylie Minogue. Have a little respect and take responsibility for the litany of actual *real* complaints they have against you.
Do that, and terrorism will vanish (eventually).

- Some people hate without reason. The hatred of the Fundamentalist Muslim terrorists (and Arabs in general) for the US is not in that category.

I am an atheist, but it's clear to me that the only real solution *is* "turning the other cheek" in true Jesus-like fashion. You have likely heard the saying that "an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind," and this is true although a very trite way to put it. when the situation becomes, "take my eye, I take a dozen of yours" it causes an ever expanding cycle of "tit for tat". History is full of this, it's one of the most obvious lessons to learn from reading History. The US response to terrorism is so catastrophically over the top in killing thousand and thousands more innocent people that it is bound to fuel more terrorism, which is *exactly* what we now see.

I dont care how many think it is silly or naive, talking and negotiation is the only thing that has ever worked in terms of eliinating these kinds of cycles of violence.

To paraphrase the great Yoda ...

"Reap what you sow, you do."

I would reply, but I think Pathfinder made it clear this isn't the place for this "off topic" debate. Not to mention I feel like I'm butting my head against a wall.

I would reply, if this was a political debate forum.

Tell me about it. I'd much rather be THERE (and not There) than here, as in work.


Note that negotiations with the IRA only worked after decades of bloodshed - much of it shed by the terrorists, who finally realized they weren't going to win.


Actually, it was very effective for the Israelis when they hunted down the Black September group after the Olympics masssacre.

To continue the derailment here, your generalization isn't always true. War should be the extension of political discourse by other means (Clauswitz). In the case of current events, we already know what the roots of terror are -- poverty, ignorance, superstition, despair, and the post-colonial oppression of the Arab peoples by their own mullahs and tyrants. The best solution, albeit the hardest and possibly the bloodiest, is to knock away the underpinnings of that despair and ignorance. I'm not claiming anything here about the wisdom of the war in Iraq, but I *am* claiming that the best solution to that situation and one which will defuse the violence is to build circumstances where the Arab peoples can govern themselves in an open society. Getting there is a problem, but more of a problem from the standpoint of the rest of the world understanding how long-term goals require short-term sacrifice.

We'll never get there by "turning the other cheek" or by abandoning our allies. We CAN get there by making the war on terror an Away game, building a new vision among the people in question and establishing an example of how a culture (Islam) which was once the most tolerant and progressive on the planet can assume that position once again some day.


See above. I think that is actually what we're trying to do -- not in a wishy-washy kind of way, but in a tough-love kind of way. Overall, however, I find little to respect or value in any ideology which straps bombs on its young people. Much could be done simply by disbanding the madrassahs and ending the preaching of hate and fatalism that is so prevalent.


Actually it is. Refer to the texts being used in above madrassahs. It's the worst sort of lunatic nonsense you'll hear.


"Over the top", as in beheading helpless victims on video? Oh wait, you weren't referring to the terrorists were you?

Thought not

sorry to see this thread become a political discussion.

No doubt, more mistakes will be made in the future. But as a wise aunt once told me, you can't really "fail" in new ventures. You can only learn. Every failure or mistake will bring with it new wisdom which will make the next venture more likely to succeed.

Second Life is like being a pioneer in many senses, though it's not the first pioneer. Some of the things we think are rough around the edges will be smoothed out in later iterations. Some things we can't even foresee will happen along and change the entire equation, probably for the better. It's almost impossible to predict details, but I think it is possible to predict the general trend -- and that general trend will be bigger, faster, more immersive. It may involve voice and streaming video. It may involve a blurring of offline and online. It may involve all of the above. The only thing I can say for sure is that Orwell and Asimov and Toffler, et al, were right and they were wrong. So far it looks like the pessimistic predictions were more wrong than right, but maybe that's a product of my own changing perception.

As an illustration, a couple of years ago I was reading about someone who was developing USB devices which actually connected to your genitals. He had a male and a female version. His vision was to create an interactive world where you could actually, physically, stimulate your cyberpartner. Now, at first blush that sounds weird and impersonal. But if you expand his idea beyond the sexual you start to get the impression that the only limits we have in Virtual Reality are self-imposed.

Exactly.

This is what I was trying to get across, and you did it much better than I.
Not everyone is looking for "products".

.