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Commercializm Poll |
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Csven Concord
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Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
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06-13-2005 08:22
in some circles the phrase "they got Fox'd" means that a game mod got shut down by a Cease & Desist (Fox being the media company of course). not uncommon. just thought this was SL.
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
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06-13-2005 08:25
Too much commercialism? I'd have to say no.
The only way to advertise on SL right now is in the Find menu, and soon classified ads. Also I know some people pay to advertise on the SL music streams. I think we are to limited in ways of advertising. Billboards are a waste, most people fly by before the image is cleary downloaded. In SL it is hard to shove a brand down someone’s face. IMO, commercialism is a good thing, with exception of products being pushed on Kiddy Cable Networks and during cartoons. Obviously, I do have a biased opinion here. Part of the fun I have in Second Life is watching my business grow and trying to establish a mainstream product. I try to do it tastefully and not overly aggressive, my products do have a loyal following and word of mouth is still my biggest form of advertising. At the same time since my product is more of a novelty, it is important for me to make a bright colorful logo that will stick in people’s head. As far as copyright infringements go, I think it is an issue SL needs to address before the population gets much bigger. In many of my gestures, I use sound clips from movies and such. I did do some research and as long as I do not advertise those sounds, and put stress on the fact I am charging for the actual animations, I am protected. The thing with digital media, it would be almost impossible to prove that these sound clips are not just a similar voice doing an impersonation. So I would be protected under "reasonable use", same as radio stations who use sound clips for promos and skits. When I first started SL. I tried starting a sporting g good store that sold team t-shirts and apparel. Linden Labs quickly told me to remove these items because I was using actual team logos. I have since not heard of anyone else getting such a warning, I think LL needs to make these stands more often to protect the future of SL. _____________________
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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06-13-2005 08:36
Ok, I seriously want to know what the fuck at this point. I agreed with you that something needed to be done when there was a threat. There isn't now, nor will there be for a very long time, if ever. At this point, the only ad's you see in second life are for SL based bussinesses and/or SL based services. Nothing else, since it isn't a reasonable investment oppertunity. To give a good example on my stand with this "hot" topic, I will refer to anarchy online. AO is a semi-popular MMORPG. It is completely, 100% free. Only thing is, you have to put up with commercial advertisements. Now, when I first saw this it completely ruined the immersion factor funcom worked so hard to get. But once you keep in mind "Hey, it's free. They have to do something to stay in business" and that if you paid 15$ a month they would be gone (and you would have access to shadowlands!) it makes it worth it. The point? Sure, I'll put up with an anal raping (not really) if the game is free and that's what it takes to stay in business. But if you have to pay monthly (especially with the horrible prices SL has) then it's not worth it. First 2 points - Just the basic "classic" Anarchy is free. A lot of the really good stuff has a subscripton. Kind of like being limited to PG sims in Second Life. Your language in your post is basically offensive, I see no reason to using the word "fuck" or refering to rape in your post. That being said - you bring up a good point - RL ads would not be a bad Idea in SL if they came in in a controlled manner. In Anarchy they used Billboards near Urban Areas, at least at first (maybe still, I left a few month ago) RL ads near Telehubs, for example , - even streamin audio and video. I dont think would hurt. Since those areas are in world commercial anyhow , I dont see where it would ruin immersion. Just as an example if you Teleported to a telehub and heard a Coca Cola commercial with video on a modest Billboard .. I dont think it would be traumatic. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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06-13-2005 08:40
I don't think LL has the time nor the manpower to police every product for possible infringments. They have created a method which allows for removal of copyrighted/trademarked items. If I were writing the policy it would require a complaint from the party who holds the copyright/trademark to remove an item. Because when an item is wrongly removed there are consequences. The person whose item was removed can file charges against the person filing to have the item removed. So I'd be very careful filing such a complaint, and make sure the person doesn't have rights to sell these items.
That is probably why LL doesn't jump to remove things. I don't believe SL or LL is responsible for content created by the user base. So no worries SL will suffer due to these issues. Just my humble opinion  |
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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06-13-2005 08:45
Umm .. we really dont need another copyright infringement thread.
I think theres about 10,000 pages of posts on that issue all ready. Id suggest finding one that wasnt closed by the Lindins and responding on Copyright stuff. *goes for a Aspirin* |
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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06-13-2005 09:28
One big thing to consider before anyone goes off on a letter writing campaign to corporations... the more you show them that there's a market for their goods here the more likely they'll be to want to come here and set up shop themselves. You could help bring about the very thing you'd like to avoid Cat.
_____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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06-13-2005 11:11
Yup and when the big corporations catch wind of it what realy happens to LL.
Hell of a catch 22. _____________________
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Red Mars
What?
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
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06-13-2005 11:24
These are some steps we can take. Which IMO is not nearly enough to combat this problem. A simple "report this copy written material" button from within sl would help a great deal. Hell set up a committee of sl residents to investigate the illegal material. I would do it. If found in violation the material is promptly removed by the lindens. Cat The Hero Disclaimer:  Please just view my above statement as one of many possible suggestions nothing i write is written in stone You seem a little to eager to be an official tattle. In theory I see the need for this, but god forbid LL forms a committee filled with people who'd gleefully grab just enough power to go out and "get them and their little dog too". btw I really preferred you when you were ranting and raving, at least you sounded honest, your new sachirine sweet 'aren't-I-innocent' forum personality is rather distasteful.  _____________________
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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06-13-2005 11:29
And yet... Television survives... The internet survives... Magazines survive... Newspapers are mostly ads and "McNews" now also, yet people devour them everyday as if they contained information. _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Kelley Honey
Registered User
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 23
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06-13-2005 11:36
From what I have read in ALL of Cat's posts in the forum....we NEED her in a committee to investigate. Now, all of you little Linden 'wannabe's' that constantly attack her can have a shot at me.
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Red Mars
What?
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 469
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06-13-2005 11:37
Cristiano and Nolan are on my mute/ignore list and will no longer be granted the dignity of an answer. Translation: They just won't listen to MY reason and agree with me and I can't win an argument so I'm going to pretend they aren't there! I can't hear them I can't hear them /fingers in ears NYA NYA NYA NYA _____________________
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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WEb to ruin SL
06-13-2005 11:41
... Streaming media, introduced rl commercials. Html rl web sites on prims. ... For those of us who remember what the internet was like *before* the web, and what the web was like when it was just beginning, (before commercialism took over)... the web on a prim is baaad news. Your only hope is to buy your own sim, as the rest of SL will likely end up just like the web. Chock-a-block ful of ads and porno. Leaving people unable to even find anything that is not a product for sale or worse. Imagine AOL on the side of every building in town displayed 60 metres tall, and you have a glimpse of the future of SL it seems. For those non-americans in the crowd think of how many creepy eagles and waving us flags you will have to stare at each day. I for one am *really* disspointed at this decision. I did not join to be marketed to, and have no interest in palying SL as some kind of mini-monopoly game. It saddens me that Linden Labs is making such a basic visceral change in the game and apparently not really thinking about the consequences. _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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06-13-2005 11:47
People break laws every single day. I wouldn't get upset over it. Not only are they making money, but they are upsetting you in the process. You lose twice. they win. Contact Disney or whatever you think will work, but don't let it get to you. After all, this is supposed to be fun You have the morals of a guttersnipe What an horrible world we would live in if everyone thought like that. _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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06-13-2005 11:51
... it's just no realistic to think it could happen at this point in time. Second life is not a viable business oppertunity, and LL would never allow real life advertising unless there was a reason for it. I will be the first one out of the door if anything occurs that allows real world marketing ... Web on a prim. already planned isn't it? next release? that means RL ads (web pages) on any wall or surface, anytime. since the majority of web pages contain between 2 and 6 advertisements, and since anyone can make an agreement to put up a web ad.. I would expect that it will start within seconds of the next update. _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
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06-13-2005 12:04
Not to sound like chicken little again, but this is the biggest factor I think and possbily the beginning of the end of SL as we now know it (relatively free of commercialisation and ads and capitalist crapola). I'm not sure capitalism is all "crapola". It can become overbearing and invasive in extreme - especially in an unregulated environment -- but it also provides advantages. For those of us who remember what the internet was like *before* the web, and what the web was like when it was just beginning, (before commercialism took over)... I remember that. I remember text-based websites, no Flash, no Google. I remember not being able to find much of anything because it just wasn't out there unless a university had cataloged and uploaded it. Today, I seriously can find *anything* I need to know with a good search engine. Over this past month, I have sought out and found information on religion, Roman mythology, a little-known science fiction writer and the Cambrian Explosion. I've web-cammed with a brand new SL friend, heard her voice and got a kick out of her cute kids. I also purchased a copy of Photoshop on the cheap and found a used copy of a how-to book on Amazon. Don't tell me we had it better in the 'good old days' -- they weren't really that good. the web on a prim is baaad news. Only because it represents change. Change is hard. My life's motto is, "Change sucks," but it's only because I hate change. But not all change is bad. Change can also be the harbinger for better things. If we can take a broader view for a moment, let's imagine future virtual worlds (which may or may NOT be Second Life ) where your online experience is integrated with your offline experience. You could order pizza delivery from within your virtual world while you were playing Tringo 3000 , finish that report for your boss during breaks in the event and even have risk-free avie sex without worrying about STDs or physical violence from your pimp!Ok, the last bit was partly tongue-in-cheek, but until we get there and see what's really going to happen I think it's too early to say "this is bad". We may not like it, but trying to resist it is going to remind me of the story of the little Dutch boy. EDIT: Last afterthought. If entering a club or a store results in endless pop-up spam, I truly AM outa here. _____________________
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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06-13-2005 12:05
Great post Cindy!
PS: for the record, I voted No in the poll. _____________________
*hugs everyone*
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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06-13-2005 12:18
I thought this post of Robin's in the Hotline fit this discussion. So I'm cut and pasting it here:
Originally Posted by Robin Linden: Well hopefully I can add some clarity to all this! First we need to make a distinction between advertising by RL companies in SL to SL residents, and trademark infringements or copyright violations in content made by SL residents. Advertising There are currently no RL companies who have approached LL to sell or advertise products or services to SL residents. For example, in many video games (think football or racing, for example) you will see signage for RL products that mimic signs you might see in RL. Those signs have often been paid for by the RL company who knows that thousands, maybe millions, of people will play those games and see those ads. There are no such signs or ads in SL. Similarly, no one has approached or paid LL to advertise RL products in SL and then link to RL websites similar to the Nike option in There.com, as an example. Our position with respect to both types of advertising has been that if a RL company wants to buy land, set up a store, and offer products to SL users they can do that. We would not cut a deal with them upfront, and their success would depend on how interested SL residents are in what they have to offer. Trademark Infringement You may see things available in SL that are branded with well-known RL corporate logos. If a LL employee sees something like this they will ask the creator to remove the logo, since this is an infringement on a legally registered mark. There may be marks that we aren't familiar with, or that we don't encounter. If the owner of the trademark sees an infringement and wants it removed, they can let us know and we will take care of removing it. Copyright violation If someone feels their idea or creation has been copied by someone else they are free, under the DMCA rules, to petition LL to remove the copy while they pursue legal action. The someone in this case can be a RL corporation or a SL resident. This process is spelled out in our Terms of Service (paragraph 12). So, to specifically answer your questions: A. There is no process or guideline in place, since we are not selling advertising in SL. If that changes we will let people know. B. Since we have not sold any advertising, there is no list. C. If I understand this question correctly, you are asking what recourse someone has who is trying to compete with a RL branded object? The RL branded object is most likely violating a trademark. If we are aware of that violation we are obligated to remove the trademark. Whether or not that removal will improve sales of the competing item though, would remain to be seen. Original post found here: /invalid_link.html _____________________
*hugs everyone*
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Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
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06-13-2005 12:22
Commercialism will eat SL. Just like it did to the world wide web, right before it collapsed back in 2007.
Better turn off your computer now. Ahhhhh-ooooooooooh! I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at The Edge His hair was perfect Werewolves of SL Draw blood _____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
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06-13-2005 12:43
I remember that. I remember text-based websites, no Flash, no Google. I remember not being able to find much of anything because it just wasn't out there unless a university had cataloged and uploaded it. Today, I seriously can find *anything* I need to know with a good search engine. Over this past month, I have sought out and found information on religion, Roman mythology, a little-known science fiction writer and the Cambrian Explosion. I've web-cammed with a brand new SL friend, heard her voice and got a kick out of her cute kids. I also purchased a copy of Photoshop on the cheap and found a used copy of a how-to book on Amazon. Don't tell me we had it better in the 'good old days' -- they weren't really that good. I couldn't agree more. I've been online since before there even was a WWW, and it's a million times more useful now than it ever was back then. _____________________
My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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06-13-2005 12:56
I couldn't agree more. I've been online since before there even was a WWW, and it's a million times more useful now than it ever was back then. Thirded. The days of gopher and ftp were terrible compared to what we have now. The AOLes and such of the past are distant nightmares best forgot as well. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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06-13-2005 14:05
I thought this post of Robin's in the Hotline fit this discussion. So I'm cut and pasting it here: Original post found here: /invalid_link.html Thanks very much Pendari thats all I needed to hear. Thanks Robin for posting that in the other fourm!Well that settles that issue Hugz Cat _____________________
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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06-13-2005 14:17
WEb to ruin SL
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: Originally Posted by Catherine Cotton ... Streaming media, introduced rl commercials. Html rl web sites on prims. ... Not to sound like chicken little again, but this is the biggest factor I think and possbily the beginning of the end of SL as we now know it (relatively free of commercialisation and ads and capitalist crapola). For those of us who remember what the internet was like *before* the web, and what the web was like when it was just beginning, (before commercialism took over)... the web on a prim is baaad news. Your only hope is to buy your own sim, as the rest of SL will likely end up just like the web. Chock-a-block ful of ads and porno. Leaving people unable to even find anything that is not a product for sale or worse. Imagine AOL on the side of every building in town displayed 60 metres tall, and you have a glimpse of the future of SL it seems. For those non-americans in the crowd think of how many creepy eagles and waving us flags you will have to stare at each day. I for one am *really* disspointed at this decision. I did not join to be marketed to, and have no interest in palying SL as some kind of mini-monopoly game. It saddens me that Linden Labs is making such a basic visceral change in the game and apparently not really thinking about the consequences. ======================= Diane you may have changed my opinion, I re read your opinion and it did hit home. I'm now on the fence on the issue of html on prims. Cat _____________________
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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06-13-2005 14:18
Translation: They just won't listen to MY reason and agree with me and I can't win an argument so I'm going to pretend they aren't there! I can't hear them I can't hear them /fingers in ears NYA NYA NYA NYA Acturaly they continue to post bullshit like this that gets them on my ignore list. _____________________
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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06-13-2005 14:27
From what I have read in ALL of Cat's posts in the forum....we NEED her in a committee to investigate. Now, all of you little Linden 'wannabe's' that constantly attack her can have a shot at me. I missed this one thanks ya made me smile Hugz you tight! Cat _____________________
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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06-13-2005 15:02
THANKS LINDEN LAB!!
Hugz to all Lindens! Cat _____________________
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