What are the free speech limits on an offensive 9/11 build?

Roberta, I actually agree with your posts in this thread to a large degree, but personally I find nothing funny about an event where thousands of people died horribly and thousands more had loved ones die. I hate the self important orgy of nationalism that followed that day and that's definitely ripe territory for biting satire, but people on fire jumping from buildings? Gee, what a laugh riot.

How can someone make a build like that ...that is disrespectful

yes, won't somebody think of the children?!?!?!?

Don't push your values onto me, KthxBye.

I agree with LF.

Free Speech.

Nor you for us, so where is your argument exactly?

Anyway. It's on our land! Don't come here, thanks in advance

You are 100% correct in a way that has no bearing on my argument. Actually, it supports my argument: No reasonable, disinterested party (as all good judgements come from) could say that the WTC display was a symbol of hatred (a joke in poor taste is not necessarily hatred), nor is there any possible way it could be construed as racist by same.

I'm not entirely sure that's what you meant to say, though.

My post had nothing to do with the WTC display. I was trying to point out that there is a difference between being offended by poor tatse and being offended by something that spews forth racial hatred. You kind of lumped the two together so I was just trying to help you see the difference.

Ah. I am aware of the distinction, but didn't think to add it to my argument because I hadn't thought it would come up in a discussion about the WTC display. It is, of course, valid. I would understand protesting a display that stated, for instance, 'Uzbekistanians Are Evil'. It is not something I myself would protest (insert tired old quote here usually incorrectly attributed to Voltaire: 'I may not disagree with what you have to say, sir, but I shall fight to the death to protect your right to say it etc'.) (also, I am not from Uzbekistan), but I can understand why someone would protest such a thing.

can it be seen from off your land?

Possibly, but I can see things that offend me from different parcels then they're on. Until LL creates an option to only view the current parcel, that's going to be constant. Doesn't make it any more valid.

For that matter, I can see things that annoy me from my OWN parcel. Doesn't mean I'm going to raise a fuss about them unless they were specifically placed so as to annoy me. And even then, I'm really easy going about it.

Yes and so what?

I'm happy we agree on that. To take it one step farther if someone had a big billboard that said "Jews are evil" I would consder that poor taste and only a reflection of the billboard maker's IQ level and wouldn't lose sleep over it. If someone else had a billboard that said "Kill the Jews because they are evil" I would consider that to be beyond poor taste, a ToS violation and I would demand justice.

I really don't have an issue with those towers, I guess, because they don't target race, ethnic heritage or sexual preference (for lack of a better term).

Ah I see, you can argue free speech, but you can't handle someone using free speech to speak about the offensiveness of your build. Got it.

I am very happy to make this an issue, perhaps I shall bring even more attention to it, who knows. I did not ask to have your build taken down - I commented on it. Would I like to see it go away? Absolutely- for you to mock and find humor in the deaths of other people is sickening and makes you pretty low on the scale of evolved humanity. However, no where did I call for it being taken down. Reread the original post if you actually can read.

So sorry that your groupies are all in an uproar over this. Again, it is alright for you to put something out there you think is funny because of free speech, but not alright for someone to comment on it and find it offensive and hurtful? How exactly does that work again, you hypocrite?

so youre forcing your version of "dealing with grief" on others then.

my dad died in a fire years ago, should I have erected a picture of him burning in my yard to help me deal with the grief?

i could, but IMHO, that would make me a sick person.

i feel sorry for you.

you cant see that this is not about america, its about murdered people from all over the world in a building that served the world, not just america, and you folks are using their deaths to make a social commentary on overly patriotic americans.

how american politicians or residents chose to react has no bearing on the fact that you are using the deaths of 1000s of innocent people to promote your humor.

dealing with grief my ass. its ok I am used to your gangs transparent excuses.

say nite nite Gracie.

We seem to agree on quite a lot of points. It's refreshing to see well-thought-out, clear, and sensible opinions on this forum. Thank you for existing.

You still have not provided an explanation for why we should be forced, on our land, to comply with your standards of taste. We aren't forcing you to do anything but you seem to be perfectly happy to force us to comply with your whims. What gives you the right to do so? I don't believe any of us are going onto your land and demanding that you comply with what we like. So far your arguments have been 100% subjective.

I believe, if I may interject, that his issue was not with the fact that people found it offensive - no one person can control the emotional response of another - but more with the fact that a build he put significant time, energy, and effort into creating was taken down against his will because an arbitrary person made an arbitrary, purely subjective judgement that it was 'bad' in a moral sense. No one is telling you you're not allowed to have the opinion that the build is in poor taste, or even evil if that's your desire. No one is even telling you you're not allowed to post about it on the internet. My issue, as I am certain my illustrious compatriot shares, is that the subjective judgement of a relatively small number of people was used as justification for action against him.

Why thank you Teddy. It's not very often that two people can achieve mutual respect and agreement on these forums instead of trying to battle to the death which usually ends up being the battle of the bores.

says you. you know just because you say something doesnt make it fact. funny thing is, i never called for its removal, i just question the mental state of people who find it funny or who hide behind excuses. i have to ask myself "what happened to these folks in their lives that they behave in this manner?" or "are they just trying to impress each other?"

i am thinking its probably the latter.

Significant time and effort? The plane was purchased, and the towers were a textured cube of a Googled picture, all with stock particle fire effects. Please don't pretend this was some profound display of creative speech that took the poor misunderstood artist all kinds of time and effort to create - I could put up such a display in about 2 minutes. It was just another attempt by the group to be as broadly offensive as possible. At least call a spade a spade, if you are going to talk about the issue at hand.

You still haven't answered my question.

why bother, you will just answer for me as you have above through assumption and insinuation. not to mention if i do, you will just turn it around to fit your lame ass position.

you should run for president. i have faith that you could fix everything thats wrong in the world with your years of experience on this planet. must be nice to have all the answers! you can start by fixing the intarweb!

thanks huns, you have taught me about crassness as a lifestyle if not anything else. have a nice nite. hugs.

Random invective does not make your position look very strong. Do you have a point you can make logically and objectively, and without resorting to insults? If you can't, you are wasting both of our time.

Hugz back. I think we can all overcome this arguement and all have a nice big hug together maybe.