Bedazzle Be Naked

Questioniong the motives of a public group is completely civil. Attacking individuals is not.



I feel that if I'm not invalidating someone's perspective, I'm probably worrying too much about what other people think of me. The truth is a tough place to get to. Quite often, in order to get to it, we have to invalidate the statements of others.

For example, someone invalidated my opinion that they were prostituting themselves. That seemed completely civil to me.



Oh, I don't get offended. I love you all, especially the ones that really hate me.

Or, they just posted some nudie pics on their site.

See, I dunno that it's so much the wording that's irritating, it's more than likely the assumption of motive.

See, I disagree with your entire assumption that groups are any more fair game than individuals. And it's not like this was an attack on a faceless corporation, anyhow. The people involved were not even part of the group, and yet they got slammed just as hard, if not harder, than the group.





Define "Invalidating someone's perspective", please. I wan't to comment on this, but I'm going to hold off on the chance I'm misunderstanding what you mean by that phrase.

Invalidating means telling someone they are wrong or even completely wrong.

You know blaze, I for one don't hate you.

Do I get irritated sometimes when you make hyperbolic assumptions? Yes.

Do I get irritated when you sometimes project an air of superiority when it comes to things technical? Yes. Remember, you will find more folks with technical backgrounds here than any other MMOE - that I know of.

Do I find it frustrating that you have all but pegged SL for the boneyard? Yes. You seem to want to neatly categorize it, compare it to other MMOE/G's that are simply not comparable, and then extrapolate the death of SL from that.

Do you make good, solid points at times? Yes, but sometimes your delivery is very awkward, almost derisive, as if you are speaking to underlings, which can sour a good point in a heartbeat.

Am I trying to be more civil and understanding with you? Yes.

Oh, you're absolutely free to tell someone they are wrong.

I'm not some wussy liberal college professor who has a psychotic aversion to telling someone they are wrong.

The question is, HOW are you telling a person they are wrong.

And, as always, you have to accept the possibility that people may - vehemenently - disagree with you.

OMG...YAY...What beautiful pics! I can't wait til the calendar comes out. WOOOHOOO!! BEDAZZLE ROCKS!!!

There now, that being said: 'After reading this thread in it's entirety, I am completely blown away'. Just as everyone has the right to their opinion, so does everyone have the right to, follow me closely here, put whatever the fuck they want on their own website. I will also muse that the shop in Chinatown had a door and walls. It was also in a mature sim. FFS this is the most inane babble I've ever read on this forum.
Peace.

Blasphemer!

Haha

Then we aren't trying hard enough.

*goes off to post even more inane babble*

Really, only one thing needs be said: Mmmm, nakey Torley...

Different strokes for different folks. It's fine to have strong opinions about things like this.

Just please don't resort to personal attacks, either against individuals or groups of individuals.

This has been a Public Service Message from the Council for Free Expression. Thank you.

You quoted my post!!! Pathfinder lubs me!!! YAY

For those that don't want to read through 26 pages, I offer this simple thread summary:

Vicious Nudity

Ah the revaltion. I get it. Naked women posted in china town were all done for the pleasure of evil men who opress women and exploit them, because no man could ever value a womans body in the same way a woman can. The rhetoric of the man hater. Its not enbought to celebrate love for a same sex partner, not we must twist the dagger in teh backs of those exploitative breeder males who look at porn, who use escorts, who look at titties, sorry breastages, I mean breasts. They are degrading our sisters! Our sisters who, if only they could see beyond the tainted walls of the male dominated SL sex society would know they never need be naked for men again.

I have played a lesbian too, once upon a time, in a game world far far away.

You know what? I like porn. I like naked women. I like escorts. I love women. I even love lesbians. What is wrong with liking sex? Why is it that the same people who always fight Judeo-christian values based on the prohibition of Gay marriage so easily accept the notion that public advocacy of sex is bad.

God. Get naked. Fuck your best friend on the hood of the car in in the animation shop in pirates cove (well ok maybe that would violate TOS-but you get the Idea). Lets celebrate fertility and sexuality and joy of living. Orgies for everyone!

This thread is now about pixellated hormones at war!

Oh, wait. It always was.

---------------------------

You know, I just gotta say it. Catherine Cotton was right: Sex sells. And she used sex to sell most of the people in this thread on the idea of paying attention to her for over twenty pages.

Must be nice to read one paragraph and assume so much about a person..

So what I hear you saying is that I am an angry lesbian now. I'm sure the other lesbians in sl would take exception to remarks like that. I know I find your opinons of not mearly opinions but a clear insult against my sexuality, that was a blatent sexist remark.

I also hear you saying that all my troubles would be fixed if I "get naked. fuck your best friend"

again another remark about my sexuality, and a sexist remark.

If this isn't against the community standards, then what is?

Your a discusting human being.

Did you 'become' lesbian since your husband deployed ? Just curious as I thought one was born homosexual.

I did.


No, it is not "already working." That would assume I'm merely a pawn in Catherine's plot. That I can't think for myself or observe for myself. I think if you think about it, you'll realize that what you have said is really kind of insulting to me, or to anyone who agrees with Catherine.

And it didn't start out with the idea that certain people are beneath her. I'm not looking at the first page right now, but I believe if you look at the original post you'll see it didn't. She didn't start a trollish thread. I think it just looks that way to you because of your knowledge of the history of these forums. From my point of view, she started a perfectly reasonable line of discussion.


No, it is not in order. I don't need to know her or her background or the history of these forums to recognize a valid point, and to know from my own experience and observations whether or not I agree with it. Catherine could be an ax-wielding avie murderer, and I would still agree with her if she observed that Tringo games dominate the events calendar. As a matter of fact, she has come across as a lot more reasonable in this thread than her detractors have.

Going back to that discussion, I'd like to insert here the concept of "mainstream," which I touched on earlier by mentioning the mainstream press. The pure fact of the matter, at this stage in our culture, is that once you start making your work a girlie show, you cage yourself into a smaller niche, one which is not mainstream.

Now I fully agree that the line between art and girlie shows can be a fine one, and often in the eye of the beholder. And I definitely do appreciate the talent involved in creating a nice nude skin. But it is my opinion that the use of nudity in this particular situational case is more girlie show and less art, and that is Catherine's opinion as well. No amount of insisting loudly I am wrong, that it is art, or that nudity is always appropriate in all circumstances, will change my gut reaction that it is not, and I will end up avoiding it more than visiting it.

And when, for whatever multitude of reasons of presentation or context, people decide something is more girlie show than art, then that work then moves out of the mainstream.

I have been to a museum in the game devoted entirely to art works of nude females, built by someone who is definitely in a sub-culture of the game. It is an absolutely beautiful museum, perfectly done, and is truly art at its best. Perhaps partly because it doesn't pretend to be mainstream, or expect to be accepted by everyone.

So I would posit that Bedazzled, unlike that museum, has failed in its presentation, if it intends to be accepted as mainstream. If Bedazzled would prefer to occupy a somewhat smaller market, fine. But if Bedazzled thinks - and, indeed, is apparently trying to insist - that it IS mainstream with this sort of thing as part of its image, then I would suggest that they have failed, somehow, in their presentation. They would need to rethink the ramifications of including nude avies in their projects. The argument, so often presented in this thread, that we who don't care for it are all just WRONG (not to mention needing to get laid), just doesn't cut it.

To illustrate: I can go to Backstage and decide, for myself, that I love it and want to show it to all my friends. I can know for myself that if a portion of it were dedicated to nude pin-ups such as those utilized by Bedazzled, I would not love it as much, and if I showed it to my friends, I would have to apologize for that part of it beforehand. I can go to the museum I mentioned earlier that consists entirely of nothing but nude female images and decide, for myself, that I love it and want to show it to all my friends, and I would not have to apologize for any of it beforehand.

The first is mainstream, and the second isn't, but both are exquisitely presented, and both are good art. It is my opinion that running into pin-ups when you really don't expect to isn't particularly good art and tends to dilute the impact of a work, being more disconcerting than anything else. To put it bluntly (if not quite accurately), if you're gonna have Playboy bunnies running around, don't expect to be considered particularly high-brow, and don't expect people like me to want to hang around much. I think that was Catherine's point.

coco

Um. Did you read my post? I never said your problems would be fixed if you fuck your best freind. That was a general comment aimed at the community and not you. It was an avocation to something sexual and erotic for the pleasure of it. How it is an attack on either your sexuality or your gender eludes me.

Similarly I never once accused you of being an angry lesbian, I do not think your name was mentioned in myown coments, only in my quote which illuminates your position. I have no Idea if you are angry. You have admitted you are a lesbian. I never said being a lesbian was wrong, or that you were less of a person for being a lesbian. I said your rhetoric conforms to the rhetoric typical of a man hater. Someone with a chip on thier shoulder against men for exploiting women. I never once ssaid all lessbians are man haters, nor was anythiing in my remarks aimed at the lesbian community in general. I was however discussion an interpretation of the rhetoric and vitrol you have espoused through 25 odd pages.

Of course you would find my remarks sexist, but I wonder where that sexism lies. I would appreciate, if you could act like the adult you want us all to be, oultine for me exactly what is sexist about my remark. PLease don't rely on "oh that is sexist" as a way of suggesting my points are invalid, simply because you do not wish to take the time to debate them. I disagree with you, but that is not automatically an assault on either your gender or your sexuality.

You have taken a very stereotypical femininst position in both your original evaluation of the works in question. I attack your position with parody and sarcasm. You seem to think the world owes you respect, yet when you attack legitimate art, aritsts and models you are basing that on an assumption that it is degrading, without ever asking the participants. It is a knee jerk feminist position, which is an Idea that I disagree with.

This thread is not really about discussion my opinions of women, lesbians, or men in general. It is a discussion, initiated by you, regarding your position as to the merit of nude pictures. I confine my remarks thereto. You should do the same.

As far as assumtions being drawn from one paragraph.. well you remark that I am disgusting human being from your reading of two paragraphs. How ever you choose, rather than to debate me like an adult to simply offer a value judgement and i might add a very personal attack.

OK, thread has devolved despite my request to avoid personal attacks.

If people start personal attacks in new threads, it's "formal warning added to your permanent record" time.

Up to you.

Thread locked.