A call for ALL new land release to be URGENTLY SUSPENDED

Most economists agree that speculators play a vital role in an economy by providing liquidity. While it is easy to hate "vultures" who buy at bargain prices from people who in trouble, where would you be without them?

If there were no speculators, and you decided you want to get rid of some land, you would have to WAIT, and pay tier, until somebody wanted to USE the land for something. Or release it for ZERO.

I was just trying to remain true to the nuances of meaning so obviously intended by the person to whom I was originally responding, Siggy (see above). I think you might agree it was not meant as a congratulation for their hard work, regardless of what any dictionary might say.

I'm not trying to twist the word to my meaning, but to keep it in tune with her original intent.

Does it really matter ? Shouldn't we be discussing the issue - whether what barons do gives value to balance its cost - rather than try to find out by examining word meanings?

And what do you think about the stability issue, Siggy ? Is a rollercoaster ride on land prices more fun ? Worth the ride up to get the ride down ?

I can see that if fun is what people are after, that is a valid argument. I'm considering my position, lol. Do I want a game or a world ?

*hovers indecisively*

*has had a hard day*

*decides*

A world, I think. More exciting in the long term, to have been in at the beginning of something which grows huge and significant.
Like the Lindens say.

Definitely.

Ellie,


Speculator is a valid word. It does not have a negative connotation unless you decide that it does. I did not use it in that manner, but if you purchase something expecting to later profit you are a speculator. That is a plain and simple fact. I am not sure why you have a problem accepting the term and its use.


The real issue here is.


You bought land
You lost money on that land
You want everyone to suffer for your mistakes

As I have said NUMEROUS times.. this is the OTHER end of what they (land speculators) themselves wanted:

A free market.. when people were bent over the barrel for 10m2 all you heard was 'woohoo wild west baby! It's a free market whooohhoooo!'

I personally said then, what I will say now 'I will only spend what I think the land is worth to me.. I won't spend a single dollar over that'.. And even then there are people who I won't buy land from - even if it were $1 a sim.

And now that it is going down, we have people such as yourself screaming for regulation.. And yes, saying "A call for ALL new land release to be URGENTLY SUSPENDED" *IS* asking for regulation.. no matter how you slice it..

And yes, I'm waiting for a valid argument.. thus far I haven't seen one..

And how does land prices being high or low make a game or world for that matter?

I'm sorry - but I still totally fail to see why land prices high = good and free market , land prices dropping = bad, need linden regulation.

Please elaborate - though I have the feeling you can't.

[on second thoughts I won't tell you what I did today - some may find it distastefull]

I will maintain though -- hard day bah...

I echo Siggy here, he said it better than I could.

I think some have lost the initial spirit of SL, which I presumed was to have a place to come and unwind, interact with others, make friends. Now there seems to be an uderlying thread of high stakes greed with some of the land developers and speculators, and some businesses in general. There is nothing wrong with making a profit, but when it causes panic and strife in your real life, doesnt your threatened peace of mind become your biggest loss?

But you have to win teh intarwebs!

What?

Of course I can't, Siggy. Because that was never what I tried to say.
This text-based communication is very treacherous in that it allows selective reading (we all do it).

I DID complain about losing money, but that was not the main thrust of my point. I never said high prices were good, only that price stability was good. I several times said that the question of what level to stabilise at was an interesting question, but a different one. I several times said that I have never dealt in land, never bought any except for personal use, never expected or even hoped for a profit. Hoping for no loss (I confess it) is an entirely different thing. Entirely different.

A reasonable person, when deciding how much land to buy for personal use (including, say, running a store) will take into consideration its resale value. If he has been given a reasonable expectation that he is likely to be able to recover most of the money on resale, he will surely be happier to spend more, and go for a more expansive build. If he espects the resale value to be zero, he might well buy less. This is nothing to do with him expecting to PROFIT. The intelligent man knows that profit is bought by risk. If he wants expectation of profit, it will be coupled with possibility of loss. The non-speculator wants NEITHER. He wants STABILITY.

This is why RL governments (or central banks) usually operate economic policies designed to stop boom and bust. Businesses need confidence that plans can be planned. They need stability, not uncertainty and random swings to mess them up.

Which is why I say - it doesn't matter in a game. But it does in a nascent world. ie if it wants to start building more and more businesses.

So you see - I am able to perceive wider issues than my own self-interest, and I am trying to discuss them as such. Just don't seem to be able to get through, though.

I don't at all mind people saying I'm wrong to ask for LL to direct the control they are already exercising. Quite possibly they are right, and I'm wrong to be asking for stabilising action. But why keep misunderstanding my motivation ? It goes on and on, until its beginning to look almost perverse.

I'm only asking for stability. Choose any level you have reason to believe is best. But tell me how instability is good, if that is what you advocate?

I did get one good and valid answer - someone said in effect "its more fun". Thats grand, and I respect it. But it seems valid only for those to whom this is a mere game. So its not the viewpoint for me.

Maybe that is what most of us here are actually disagreeing about. To what extent this should or should not become a world rather than a game.

If its to be a world it needs economic stability, if its a game, maybe wild fluctuations are more fun.

I think migrating to lower prices isn't really that terrible, you do wish they might have done it a tad slower though.

Or, to paraphrase, a "soft landing".

Ok - that does it...
I've put it in my sig.......

Might change my mind tho

If you want people to read your signature, you might want to use a readable font. Right now it just looks like wild symbols.

Ah - thanks Eboni. Looks perfect on my screen. Don't really want it bigger and more intrusive. Might just scrub it.
That was real kind. So many people will never tell you if you got bad breath

Oh whoops . Dang wild symbols again.......

Nope, sorry , don't buy it.. based on the SUBJECT of the thread, and your own comments on money and land, I think your backpeddling.. sorry..

Anyways my last post - i don't see this going any further, just round in circles avoiding the subject line of the thread.

Please don't take the hyperbole of the press releases and magazine articles to heart about being able to "make real money" in SL. Right now, (as it has been since conception) SL is only an expensive HOBBY and/or a gamble at owning and selling land. You can't go to Las Vegas, plunk down $400 at a craps table, lose it all and demand that the casino change the odds and give you your money back.

You gambled, you lost. Was it fair? Who knows? There were/are enough threads in the land/economy section to read that will tell you whether or not it is profitable. Until then, think of it as "supporting the creation of the metauniverse with your entertainment monies out of your budget." When you can no longer afford to keep your land, or feel that your "entertainment costs" are too much per month; or when you feel that you're frustrated by the software problems and land speculation associated costs and losses -- then you simply sell and get back some of your "entertainment" money and subtract the start-up (purchase) costs.

I dunno, Siggy. Praps you're right. I'd have to go back and read my earlier posts to see if their tenor is different from what I remember, and frankly I'm bored with it and can't be bothered.

How bout this - I'll plead guilty to any sort of small-minded self-interested duplicitous backpeddling crap you'd like to lay on me, so long as I dont have to go back rereading any more of this boring thread over again.

This me - here - now - just wants to advocate stability at some level, achieved by some method, to encourage business investment, just like in RL. Because I don't think its just a game for fun, and I'm thinking of when we have a million users, and so many Anshe's you'd get giddy trying to count them.

Phew! Perhaps I should have tried pleading guilty to everything much earlier in my life.
Its a very freeing experience.

Only half joking. Which of us is entirely free of ego and self-delusion? They are part of the human condition.

In some ways dying must be quite wonderful, don't you think? To finally get away from that horrid, pathetic, self-serving little twisted ego thing. To feel it relax and open out like a lotus flower. Melting away into the mercury-pool of the eternal mirror.

Don't even need to die really. Just relax into your Buddha nature. But most people wait till they die, and its probably more polite that way round. Reduces the incidence of religious crap.

Oh whoops - have I gone a bit off topic ?

And was that the ego again, playing a second level diversionary tactic ?

Actually your laying all that rubbish on yourself, but whatever floats your boat...

But eh, if you can't produce anything substantial just prattle on and try to lay aspersions on character.... whatever works for you, but ultimately it doesn't do anything but make me laugh, and undermines your own position to others reading..

Happy projecting! And have a nice day.

Siggy.

If you are going to attempt to insult me (and it was a very poor attempt), please do it like an adult and also, try to make it funny.

Can't we all get along?

I bought land because I wished to use it, experiment on it, bury my bodies etc...not for profit. I see SL as an investment into my entertainment, not a money-making machine.

I was probably a tad harsh on them earlier, about publicizing the money-making aspect. You can hardly blame them for playing that up, and being proud of it, as few other online games/environments allow quite so much of that.

Still, I bet you the people who actually turn a profit are actually a very small minority of the players. Me, I keep spending more than I make, on textures and things.

coco

Or at least have the cajones to use the PLAYING account to do it, rather than the forum account

Hard to take ppl seriously that don't have the conviciton to put a real player name to their words anyway

Siggy.

Oh certainly, I don't have anything against anyone playing in order to make money , turn a profit.. its all good - we all play for different reasons.. My main point was that the people who several months ago were making money hand over fist because land was rather hard to get and the price was inflated were the ones singing that it was the joys of the free market...

Now that the other joys are seen for the purchaser, flipped to the other side, the song has changed and suddenly unregulated land sales are not good for SL..

When what they REALLY want to say is 'I'm losing money.. and I don't like that very much'...

Alas, losing money can be a risk when you play for profit.. thats just the way it is when your dealing with a risky market.

Siggy.