Adults on Teen Grid

By current policy, I don't think so. So far any teen with an account on the main grid has been moved to the teen grid, and the account on the Teen grid is legal, so...


However, if they make transfers between the accounts, I think they'll be banned, yes.

This is a little off topic, but a few have expressed a few concerns about the teen grid here. This link is on the teen SL website and it is the message to the parents.

Parent Message to Teen Grid Users

This is on topic...


Me, on the teen grid? NO THANK YOU.

This is sort of like when Mom told you fire is hot and not no touch it. Maybe you believe her and go play GI Joe instead. Or, maybe you touch it and get burned.

Me, banned form SL? I dont think so. No way do I have any interest whatsoever in trying to get on the teen grid, meeting anyone from the teen grid, or even thinking about how to get my items to the teen grid. I can just look at the teen snapzilla pics if I get really curious.

It really does sound as though, obeying the letter of the law, the only teens who cannot access the teen grid are the children of, or those who live in the same home as, existing main grid members - parents, guardians, elder brothers etc on the main grid.

Yet they are exactly the teens most likely to know about it and want to join.

Its all crazy.

What do I tell my daughter when she comes for the summer, wanting to join ?
"You simply can't join- my account will be deleted if I talk to you or look over your shoulder" ?

"Your friend from a non SL household can play- but you can't"?
What sort of sense is that ?

How can I fulfil my duties as a parent if I never even look over her shoulder, to check what she is up to ? Or talk to her about SL and how to deal with tricky situations ?

Yet you can see the difficulty of LL's position. I think the whole TG concept was flawed from the start. It's like offering junior membership to a hardcore porn site, with half-clothed pinups, and auto-migration to the real thing. Very, very dubious.

We need a clear ruling that the relationship between parent and child, at least, is excluded from these threatened sanctions.

exactly my point

Ok, I've just read the "guidance to parents" and I find :

"We encourage you to become involved in your teen’s Second Life experience. Ask them to show you around the world and to keep you informed about their in-world social and creative activities. Because only authorized adults are allowed in Teen Second Life, we do ask that you not actively operate your teen’s avatar yourself."

and

"We ask for your e-mail address so that we can send password reminders, and account information as needed. If it is necessary to issue your teen an official Account Strike Notification, you will also receive it via email. We also offer you the ability to request up-to-date Account Activity summary information. In the future, Linden Lab will offer an opt-in newsletter to Teen Second Life Residents and their parents."

That is all fine, but it nowhere acknowledges the likely case where the parent is a main grid resident, except in a reverse cause-and-effect situation:

"However, if you enjoy your experience with your teen you are welcome to visit Second Life’s separate world for adults where you can have an avatar and account of your own."

It looks as though LL are veering towards allowing us to formally identify ourselves as parents of a TG member. If only via an email address.

This would seem maybe to be a solution. The teen gives the email address of the parent to the teen grid. The parent gives the email address of the child to the main grid. Thereafter the two accounts are linked, and all creditcard problems etc disappear, and it is accepted that the parent will be supervising the teen, subject only to not operating their avatar.

That would be ok, but it needs to be properly formalised. It should really have been done before the TG was set up, to avoid the silly situation we now appear to be in.

I think this is really a great rule to teach the kiddies early in life. If you lie and break the rules, you will be rewarded. Wow, lets put them all on Wall Street

I've been showing my parents information about the teen grid on behalf of my kid sister, while simultaneously trying to get my parents to sign for main grid accounts.
Before I push in earnest, I need to understand what the issue is here -- there is something you're seeing here that I'm not.

Earlier, the concern was "You simply can't join - my account will be deleted if I talk to you or look over your shoulder", and "How can I fulfill my duties as a parent if I never even look over her shoulder to check what she is up to?"

These seemed to be your only concerns.

In quoting the Information For Parents, you appear to recognize an encouragement to look over the teen's shoulder (no other way to be "shown around the world" that I know of), and that the only restrictions to adults are:
*Adults can't create teen accounts for themselves.
*Adults shouldn't control the teen's avatar.
*Adults can't communicate with residents of the teen grid.
Violating these restrictions are the only stated acts which put the parent's main grid account in jeopardy.

This would appear to answer both of your previous concerns.

Barring then a parental decision that any of those three restrictions are unacceptable, I'm trying to understand:

*The need for acknowledgement that a teen grid resident is in the same household as a main grid resident.
*Why LL need formally identify main grid residents as parents of teen grid residents.
*What issue is this formal identification is a "solution" to.
*Why it need be formalized further than it is now, and
*What "silly situation" is it we appear to be in.

It's unambiguously established from the Information For Parents that one can, indeed should, watch over the teen's actions and exercise guidance as required.
If the restrictions are accepted by the parents as appropriate, then it's also accepted that there's no need for anyone -- parent or otherwise -- to be an adult with a teen account, no need to take the keyboard from the teen and type chat or otherwise control the avatar, and no need to communicate with residents on the teen grid.
If the parents decide the restrictions are not appropriate, then the teen shouldn't be given an account.

Unless I'm missing something, both the restrictions and the encouragement to oversee the teen remain true whether the parent has a main grid account or not. They also remain true whether LL "formally acknowledges" parent-resident/teen-resident relationships or not.
I therefore don't understand what the additional concerns are from your quote above.

This double standard, no tolerance for the adults is CRAP. If a kid talks to me on the adult grid, I should have the same reassurance that their ass is banned. Not have the nails-on-chalkboard realization that this kid will just be moved to the other grid. And for crying out loud, REWARDED by retaining all their items from the main grid.

Any items that do NOT have full permissions should not be transferred to the TG. This way, you're filtering out at least 90% of the items purchased from the MG and yet, retaining objects made by the kid. But nooo, full transfer of everything. This isn't even a pinch on the wrist for someone who willingly shat on SL's 18+ policy. It makes me want to bitch-slap the genius who thought complete inventory crossover was a brilliant idea. Or didja guys just get lazy to code it?

Well, how about this for starters, Vestalia? :

"Any adult who creates an account on the Teen Grid will find that all of their accounts are immediately deleted"

Not "uses" but "creates". And no mention of whom its created for. How else can this be detected but via address and credit card number? So whether I create it for my child, or risk giving her my credit card number and let her press the keys herself, it'll surely be flagged up the same way.

And what is meant by the ban on "contact"? What constitutes contact ? Chat in game ? IM ? IM to email? Via on off-world forum? Email itself ? Talking across the kitchen table ? Obviously the first three are out, but the line should be clearly stated as in "contact via the TG servers"?

With the threat of such serious sanctions, involving potentially the instant confiscation of many thousands of dollars, the rules need to be much more carefully and precisely drafted, they need explicitly to recognise parent/child relationships. If they are to be recognised in how the rules are implemented, then surely SL needs to be notified where they exist.

Without some reassurances like this I for one simply won't even attempt to create a TG account for my 14-yr old daughter - to her loss. Can you imagine trying to appeal an unjust expulsion, and how long it would take to get it reversed even if they agreed to listen, which I doubt they would ?

Admittedly I am only analysing Blue's email. Maybe there are more official, properly drafted rules elsewhere? Anyone know where they are ? I can't find them.

Two concerns here:

Ryen is an old friend of mine, I didn't know he was a teen. He was moved to the teen grid. If I contact him for any reason I get banned.

If he contacts me, I get banned?

OR IMO WORSE; We could contact each other secretly which IMO would make me feel dirty, as I know now he’s a kid. Ewww not even gonna open that can of worms.

Regardless as someone who has not been entirely happy about the teen grid. I am even less enthused with the TG now.

It would be very easy for me to blame Ryen or LL for this situation right now. Since I did nothing wrong,

Yet as the adult in this situation, I would be the one held accountable. = Bottom line; I lost a friend.

and

Can the TG buy items from places such as second server?

Cat

Huh, I hope they changed Ryen's key when they transfered him over, or I'll have already broken this rule by passing him an invite to a party before realizing he had been transfered.

-Flip

Just because someone is over 18 and legally accountable for the actions of their offspring, that doesn't mean they are a responsible adult.

Don't worry, most adults your teenager meets on the teen grid will be the parent of a teenager .

Or Michael Jackson wannabes

Do I understand correctly that the concern here is:
If parents follow LLs instructions for creating an account for their teen, those parents will be expelled because they are also adults?


Do I understand this concern correctly as:
Beyond the formal rules in the TOS and the statement in Information For Parents that adults may not access the teen grid (and thus have "contact" with teens), further innocent contact with teenage family members unrelated to accessing the teen grid -- e.g. sending an email to your daughter at school -- will subject parents to expulsion?

I agree with this. If a minor was on the main grid in violation of the rules they should not be able to transfer any of their assets to the TG. They get an unfair advantage over legit TG members as a reward for breaking the rules of the MG? That makes no sense.

I got a PM a few days ago from a TG member asking if there was any way I could give them a skin to use there. I got the impression they weren't aware that it was against the rules to do that sort of transfer and politely explained that to the best of my knowledge that would be a no-no. Even if it wasn't the only way it would be possible would be to give them raw textures. Not gonna happen

Well right there isn't that person violating the TOS by contacting you? Or does the rulle only apply to adults to teens not teens to adult and if so would you replying back have been a violation? Not targeting you chip just seems kinda odd they didn't ban the kid.

I really have no idea, Foulcault. I'd really hate to get the poor kid in trouble. I think that would be a bit extreme. It's not a crime if a minor asks you to give them beer. It's only a crime if you do it, and then the burden is on the adult, not the minor.

This is where I point out that I was jumped on for posting this thread:
/120/e6/53251/1.html

Yannow, posts like this one are evidence that teens are coming to MG.

Does that mean we all are guilty of associating with the teens?

One of the renters at the aerodrome vanished recently, leaving all of his stuff behind in his hangar. I contacted him by IM to ask where he went (accessing his profile through the Edit window). He told me he'd been sent to the Teen Grid, so I wished him luck and returned his stuff. Technically, I've unwittingly broken the no-communication rule, so I guess I should be banned from SL.

Seriously, if it's a bannable offense to send an IM to someone on the teen grid, then LL should block all IMs between grids rather than threatening everyone with a permanent ban. The problem is Linden Lab's not ours.

Waiting to be banned,
Cubey.

I agree with Cubey.

coco

Wait, you're saying you IM'd him directly with no problem?

Did the objects get returned correctly as well ? Wow, gaping safety hole.

I KNEW that little bugger was a minor!

I'd like to see the Teen grid one day, but I daren't cause the penalties are so harsh.

It has nothing to do with the teens, I just love to explore a new world. You only have to say "forbidden" or "hidden" or "secret" and my curiosity goes way up

Shame I don't have a kid or then I could look over their shoulder and get to explore with them. Still I have a fiancee, so maybe I'll get a look at the place one day in the future