Anti-Intellectual Lobbying
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-21-2005 12:47
From: Kendra Bancroft
also --the above post was itself anti-intellectual, as it continues to come from an emotional place and not a reasoned response.
Kendra, This is nonsense, and you know it. 'Anti-intellectual' doesn't mean 'emotional'. It means 'opposing rational thought' and there is no way it can be considered anything other than an insult. PS: And having read some of the previous postings, let me add that 'irrationality' is not anti-intellectual. It can be, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. The surrealists are a good example of irrationality coupled with respect for the intellect. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-21-2005 12:47
I take it as a compliment  But then again I also consider 'asshat' and 'dork' to be compliments too.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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09-21-2005 12:48
From: Snowcrash Hoffman I would love to know that too, and to help you Ulrika here is the accepted scientific process:
1. Start with your hypothesis: eg. Everyone who opposes my ideas are anti-intellectuals
2. Plan your experiment to test the hypothesis: eg. List everyone in the the forums who opposed your ideas, then investigate who they are, what they do, what are their general opinions and posts.
3. Analyze and present us with your data: eg. You have found that x% of the individuals who opposed your ideals were of lower education than ..., they believed in things like astrology, intelligent design, etc. compared to y% of the individuals who agreed with you. Of course upon further multi-parameter statistical analysis of age and sex matched subjects, you have concluded that those who oppose your ideas are of lesser intellectuals than those who support them.
Can we please see the results?? Be careful what you wish for. She's no doubt formatting the data right now into a 50 page report. Don't say you weren't warned  |
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Angel Coral
Otherworldly
Join date: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 224
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09-21-2005 12:48
Here, Here Barrister. You worded many of my thoughts wonderfully. I've been thinking over the whole concept of a Players Bill of Rights and an SL government for a while. I simply don't see the need for them, nor do I agree that Linden Labs, as a private company, has the moral responsibility to endow us, its customers, with rights beyond which they have already provided. I wouldn't mind at all seeing some rules explained a bit better and I believe LL is trying to be fair in their dealings with SLers. However, I don't want to see SL become as politically antagonistic and devisive as RL.
Practicing one's political views in private or cooperative sims is a wonderful idea; but to impose one's views on all is wrong. Ridiculing people for having contrary opinions is simply in bad taste and serves no good.
angel
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Ursula Madison
Chewbacca is my co-pilot
Join date: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 713
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09-21-2005 12:49
Personally, I think anyone who believes that LL will ever bow to pressure and permit themselves to be bound by any vote of its customers (not citizens, customers!), democratic or otherwise, is the one who is being irrational. But thanks for implying that I am the one who is irrational for not blindly following you.
Just because someone doesn't agree with your position, does not make them anti-anything(except anti-[your position]) and certainly doesn't make them irrational. Just because you don't see a reason for the opposition does not mean that there isn't a perfectly rational reason for it. Demonizing the opposition is not a very classy move, IMHO... in fact, stooping to such tactics is what I would refer to as anti-intellectual, as it is more ad hominem scare tactic that rational, reasoned discussion.
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
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09-21-2005 12:50
C'mon Ulrika...I've been trying to argue that there is some merit to the SL political discussion and you go and pull this crap. Do you care about changing minds or polarizing people? This is as unnecessarily inflammatory as any of blaze's poll.
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Sextus Baphomet
-v-v- Sanguem Bibo -v-v-
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 78
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09-21-2005 12:51
A Picture Speaks a Thousand Words...
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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09-21-2005 12:51
From: Siggy Romulus You can piss up a rope and feel the pissy dribble, you can piss up a rope and I'll just sit and giggle for the last 6 months I've been packin' your bags and you can wipe my balls with a soft wet rag till my balls are shiny, and smooth as silk Coz I'm sick of your mouth and your 2 percent milk... No I can't cope, go piss up a rope Hey I can read bet ween the lines can you ??? 
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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09-21-2005 12:51
From: Selador Cellardoor Kendra,
This is nonsense, and you know it. 'Anti-intellectual' doesn't mean 'emotional'. It means 'opposing rational thought' and there is no way it can be considered anything other than an insult. Why? Do you consider the term rational to be a superlative? And though I am fond of you Selador. NEVER tell me what I know. Only I know what know. Ya know? The post I was saying did oppose rational thought and veered into emotion by taking the terms intellect and rationality and treated their objective qualities as if they only existed in the posters subjective notions of those terms. |
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
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09-21-2005 12:57
From: Kendra Bancroft Why? Do you consider the term rational to be a superlative?
And though I am fond of you Selador. NEVER tell me what I know.
Only I know what know. Ya know?
The post I was saying did oppose rational thought and veered into emotion by taking the terms intellect and rationality and treated their objective qualities as if they only existed in the posters subjective notions of those terms. The prefix 'anti' means 'against' rather than 'not'. You could call the posting concerned unintellectual, and I would not disagree. Anti-intellectual implies an active opposition to an intellectual, rational approach. You KNOW it makes sense. PS: You caught me in the middle of an edit; I have added a little more to that posting. |
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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09-21-2005 12:58
From: DogSpot Boxer I UNDERSTAND that she means that people are not capable of understanding the "intellectual" approaches and if they could _only_ understand this then they'd know the "intellectual" approach is "correct".
I and others are perfectly capable of undertstanding ideas, if they are patently ridiculous. And just because someone opposes them doesn't make them "anti-intellectual".
If it makes people anything, it makes them anti-stupid-{proposals,ideas}.
Intentionally or not, you're looking like an Ulrika apologist. No offense DogSpot, but this is not the meaning of "anti-intellectual." Lots of very smart folks (geniuses even) are "anti-intellectual" in terms of the actual meaning of the word. It's not that they are not capable of understanding, but they dont use intellectualisms to do so. Kendra said as much. She is an extremely smart capabale person that has identified herself as "anti-intellectual" right here in the thread. Lots of the other folks that replied iwth one of those "yuk-yuk, guess it's me she's talking about" responses are smart too. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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09-21-2005 13:00
From: Dianne Mechanique I dont see much real world lobbying by those types of folks I just see them (attempting) to tear things down occaisionaly. The serious lobbying is done on the part of the "free market" folks (business interests in your poll), and hopefully the Lindens dont listen to that crap, but maybe they do. I figure the Lindens had BETTER listen to the business interestes, and their needs, especially since they are marketing SL as a place where you can have a business and make real money. From: someone Additionaly, some of these "anti-intellectuals" have recently been seen taking over political groups and twisting them to their own (most likely meaningless) ends, which although intended as a joke, makes them actual participants in a political process. So one could argue that *more* folks lately (even anti-intellectuals), are getting involved in the political side of SL, which is not usually a bad thing. Yes, that's the one upside of it. coco |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-21-2005 13:02
From: Lecktor Hannibal Hey I can read bet ween the lines can you ??? (holds up 3 fingers) Sure can! lol
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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09-21-2005 13:02
From: Lecktor Hannibal This still will not end well Kendra and you KNOW it too.  The recent stream of posts IMHO have been engineered to incite and agitate. Maybe we need more forum moderation. Maybe the current moderator is overwhelmed and we'll see a job posting for additional support. Or maybe they (gasp!) need to be replaced. But who could fill this role....I can't think of anyone, can you?
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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09-21-2005 13:04
From: Selador Cellardoor The prefix 'anti' means 'against' rather than 'not'. You could call the posting concerned unintellectual, and I would not disagree. Anti-intellectual implies an active opposition to an intellectual, rational approach. You KNOW it makes sense. PS: You caught me in the middle of an edit; I have added a little more to that posting. No offense here, SC --but that's MY whole freaking point. Anti-Intellectual does not mean stupid. The fact that it is being interpreted that way --even by people who actually post the definition in their own quotes PROVES that they have moved beyond reason are taking a anti-intellectual approach to the discussion. Anti-intellectual implies an opposition to intellect--correct. It doesn't imply an active or purposeful opposition. UN-intellectual as you would use would be equivalent to calling someone stupid. |
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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09-21-2005 13:05
From: Margaret Mfume But who could fill this role....I can't think of anyone, can you? I can:
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Barrister Kennedy
Registered User
Join date: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 58
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09-21-2005 13:07
From: Kendra Bancroft No offense here, SC --but that's MY whole freaking point.
Anti-Intellectual does not mean stupid. The fact that it is being interpreted that way --even by people who actually post the definition in their own quotes PROVES that they have moved beyond reason are taking a anti-intellectual approach to the discussion.
Anti-intellectual implies an opposition to intellect--correct.
It doesn't imply an active or purposeful opposition.
UN-intellectual as you would use would be equivalent to calling someone stupid. Fun with Connotation and Denotation! Abuse of post modernism makes baby Derrida cry. |
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Jauani Wu
pancake rabbit
Join date: 7 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,835
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09-21-2005 13:07
From: Kendra Bancroft Anti-Intellectual does not mean stupid. The fact that it is being interpreted that way --even by people who actually post the definition in their own quotes PROVES that they have moved beyond reason are taking a anti-intellectual approach to the discussion. actually i think the misinterpretation of a dictionary definition only proves a reading comprehension deficiency.
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Jauani Wu
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
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09-21-2005 13:09
From: Ulrika Zugzwang YES! In a thread that will soon be filled with folks upset about the use of the word "anti-intellectual", you truly have demonstrated understanding. I'm just so tickled and impressed.  I also agree that MJW was overtaken and disarmed by this same group through the strategic removal of officers. It is proof that there is an irrational counter-political movement (this seems less offensive than "anti-intellectual" that seeks to dismantle political debate and organizations. ~Ulrika~ 1. There was no strategic removal of officers. Anshe quit to start her own group. I've written on this at length. She has written also to confirm that she was in no way "pushed out." You should know what happened to MJW, since you are now an officer in it yourself, doubtless invited in by the person most interested in doing that dismantling. Which would make you part and parcel of the dismanteling process, existing merely to counter the existing group and its original focus. That would also make you part of an "irrational counter-political movement." Actually, I don't think it makes you irrational at all. I think it makes you wanting MJW to promote your own goals, rather than its original intended goals. In any case, the only thing I've read from you so far in that group is the desire to hold meetings on your own land. 2. I think we're discussing the wrong thing in this thread when we discuss "anti-intellectualism." How about we discuss pseudointellectuals? That word has been on my mind for quite some time now. coco |
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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09-21-2005 13:09
From: DogSpot Boxer And just because someone opposes them[intellectual ideas] doesn't make them "anti-intellectual". By defintion that is EXACTLY what it makes them. From: DogSpot Boxer Intentionally or not, you're looking like an Ulrika apologist. Hmmmm. I would never apologize for Ulrika. That would be presumptive of me. |
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
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09-21-2005 13:10
From: Siggy Romulus I can: It's futile for anyone to go up against a dog, they are such scene stealers, but you should start a poll anyway.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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09-21-2005 13:10
From: Jauani Wu actually i think the misinterpretation of a dictionary definition it only proves a reading comprehension deficiency. shhhhhhhhhh. I'm on a roll |
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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09-21-2005 13:11
From: Cocoanut Koala 1. There was no strategic removal of officers.... I thought the officer corps already decided you were not to speak for MJW in public. Did I miss another memo?
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
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09-21-2005 13:15
From: Cocoanut Koala 1. There was no strategic removal of officers. Anshe quit to start her own group. I've written on this at length. She has written also to confirm that she was in no way "pushed out."
You should know what happened to MJW, since you are now an officer in it yourself, doubtless invited in by the person most interested in doing that dismantling. Which would make you part and parcel of the dismanteling process, existing merely to counter the existing group and its original focus. That would also make you part of an "irrational counter-political movement."
Actually, I don't think it makes you irrational at all. I think it makes you wanting MJW to promote your own goals, rather than its original intended goals. In any case, the only thing I've read from you so far in that group is the desire to hold meetings on your own land.
2. I think we're discussing the wrong thing in this thread when we discuss "anti-intellectualism." How about we discuss pseudointellectuals? That word has been on my mind for quite some time now.
coco Exhibit A |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
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09-21-2005 13:18
From: Jauani Wu but there is also a corrective measure to this. while the MJW is being dragged down by anti-intellectuals such as porkofy and cocoa since prokofy pushed anshe out of the group, it is resurging with activity. the group recently passed a proposal for elecetions and soon it will be decided whether MJW represents anti-intellectual paranoia of aimee's panties, misguided pseudo-intellectual civil rights lobbying, or intellectual, justice-loving privacy and new features lobbying or something else entirely. Again, that is a lie. As I just got done saying above, Anshe herself has corrected you that she was not pushed out of the group. She quit. I was there. I worked with her. I witnessed it all. You were not there. Yet you keep repeating the lie. Just as you lied about me, actually using a group proposal to do it and broadcast the lie to 110 people. Why do you keep doing this? coco |
