No kids in the real SL, EVER!

If it were an open vote i'd also be in the 'no under 18's' group.

I guess it'd push the price of mature land up however

I move that the following solution be implemented IMMEDIATELY for both the SL client software AND the website!

Both will require that the user answer a question regarding his age. If the user claims to be over 18 then he is immediately redirected to disney.com or something similiar.

After all, we know that the kids will lie about their age to get in.

Oh, and on the off chance some of them are too smart to fall for this trick, if they claim to be UNDER 18 then they get redirected to disney.com.

yeah, I remember when Leisure Suit Larry tried to do this, and asked questions like,"Where would you most likely find virgins?" (a) Virginia (b) Las Vegas (c) The Virgin Islands (d) St. Mary's Catholic School.
or "Who was Richard Nixon's Secretary of State?"...
As if the underaged kid wanting to get it wouldn't know the answer to the first question, and couldn't Google the answer to the second...

This will just be an obnoxious extra obstacle to all of us adults logging in.

Sigh, and here I thought the last line would be a dead giveaway as to its satirical nature.

As for Leisure Suit Larry, the only part I can clearly remember is the drunk telling me to 'watch the pointy shoes'

Think I was in high school at the time or just graduated.

Heh!

Nah, I took it seriously because (a) Much sillier things have been suggested in this forum. (b) I've heard the Disney.com thing before.

Adding my 2 cents worth - like the majority here, I absoultely do not want to play in the same environment as the under 18 crowd. If LL wants the headache of monitoring and babysitting them on a seperate grid, that's up to them.
Even if they weren't all troublemakers, at best they would be a distraction. Their lack of maturity would simply make coexistence unpleasant for everyone.
And yes, I'm a mom , and like kids (well, my own anyway - hehehe).

Not going to sit here and list all the reasons, since they've all been covered. But just to add my voice to say that the day minors are officially allowed onto the main grid is the day I leave for good.

Fortunately, I have faith that Linden Lab really aren't actually that stupid as to try that.

I would like to ask just one question. All of you people out there complaining that you dont want minors... do you realize that a large portion of SL is as of this very moment composed of them? Do you also realize that these evil minors all around you have been here for a long time, and some are even fairly popular and successful?
A lot of people look at the sheer amount of "PG" sims and think it is just like the movie rating, "minors above 13 are welcome here". A certain lady friend of mine claimed the other day that she knows at least 20 or 30 minors, and that she knew their parents, and that's how they saw things. People want to bring their children into SL. People have threatened to sue LL when their kids were banned for being minors!
Minors are already in SL, and they're a dime a dozen. Most people who deal with them dont notice much difference. In fact, they are probably anti-minor just like the lot of you.
While I do like being left alone, and hate immature people, I have found that the bulk of SL is composed of people so shallow that there is virtually no distinction between them and an average high-schooler. The good thing is, today the world is so large that no one forces me to put up with annoying people!
I dont care who or what joins SL. The world is too big for me to care. Not many people even know where I live, and if push comes to shove, I can set my land to allow only a few selected people to access it.

Yes. I know a few myself. And any one of them that has caused grief or behaved like a child has been abuse reported for same. Though I have to confess I know a couple of other minors that I have not reported because, frankly, they are perfectly nice, perfectly mature people who you can interact with on an adult level. Of course, you are always mindful of what you say to them, show them, or what you're doing at the time...and that's part of the problem. I shouldnt feel I have to hold my tongue or kerb my behaviour on my own mature island (or anywhere else) because of kids. But I do. Though in these cases its my choice to put up with them because I guess I could just report them. But it's a valid reason for not wanting the grid officially opened up to them.



Then they are wrong. Firstly PG means Parental Guidance. That means the minors - in this case deemed by Linden Lab to be under 18 - should be accompanied by an adult *shrug*. Which would be kinda funny, I guess.



Wow, Eggy. And you call me a troll?



Your opinion, and fine. But I think you're being uber naive if you really think it wont affect your SL experience. They WILL find you, because they will be everywhere, getting into everything, doing stuff you won't like. And you think the userbase is shallow and immature now? Wait til you let the minors in.

Yes Eggy I've run into a few of them myself and frankly, I have no real objection to the minors themselves - I object the their parents.

As things stand presently, if a parent finds out that their kid is in SL, ultimately the PARENT is responsible for anything that happens to the child because the TOS specifically states 18+. So while they could try to force a content change by suing LL, it's not likely that they would win.

If LL opened the grid to kids then they open themselves to a responsibility - then they can be sued and forced to change content. The minuite they dummy down SL "for the children" it's ruined.

This hadn't springed to my mind at first within the frame of this topic, but now that I read it, it quite tugs at a string too. Maybe generally speaking, should I say, not only related to SL...

There's more than one place nowadays where kids are really given too much importance, and this is somewhat of a disturbing trend. What's wrong with having places "for adults" only? (And by this I don't mean sexual content only!) What's wrong with activities where kids aren't allowed? Since when should children be allowed in all and everything, and what for - so that the poor little ones don't feel "ostracized"? It's like this stupid concept of "the child is king", which in the end more than often leads to spoiled brats. Children need limits, and need to be kept in their right place too. Why should we actually *care* that some kid will whine "whaa, I'm not allowed into SL, it's like you adults hate me"? Can't they simply wait until they actually *are* adults too? Yes, when we were 14-15, we all wanted into night-clubs "because it's where the grown-up people go, and thus by going I'll feel more mature", but that sure doesn't mean that these were places for us - and truly, now that I'm 10 years older, I realize that it was a wise thing to not be allowed in, because now I really wouldn't want to see kids in such places either, and know it's not theirs anyway.

I don't know... it's as if there were more and more adults who don't want to, or can't, accept that a child shouldn't be allowed everywhere (I don't mean in SL specifically, I mean generally, I can see this around me everyday where I live as well). It won't cause them horrible psychological disasters if they're kept out of a certain place for a few years, it won't ruin their future lives to an irreversible degree, it won't traumatize them if for certain things they're told to wait at the door until they're actually responsible enough/grown-up enough to enjoy them to their real value... and it's not like children lack activities adapted to their age level either... so why?

Okay, and now back to the topic a little more precisely... Really, in a way I can understand that LL consider including minors, seeing their projects and the planned evolution of SL. Allright. But it would still be much better to not mix everything, if only for the sake of keeping everyone's kind of activities to the level they pertain to. Too young minors wouldn't really feel the same level of involvement than more mature people anyway... adults would like to keep their conversations and activities on a reasonably "mature" level , without baby-sitting... these are concerns I can understand well enough, and share as well.

Everybody at their right place, and who knows - could we envision shared activities perhaps? Such as "G-rated sims" (is that the right classification? I'm not very familiar with these US/English levels, to be honest) where there would be "general activities" such as, for instance, the Building classes, some tutorials, general games, or any activity that doesn't present many risks of degenerating either into a sex contest or into a babysitting fest? I'm sure that there's this possibility somewhere. Nobody would be *forced* to attend, of course, but somewhere, not all events need to be mature-rated either, heh. This way, the adult sims/events stay at their place... the kids stay at their place... and whoever wants to go to a "shared" place, will also know that they must behave. (And I'll still use my motto here: "Keep your bottoms covered no matter what when it comes to The Law!" )

Eh well... I still I'm babbling a little too much here, so I'm going to go back to work, and put an end to my break here.

Yes, I know of a few personally as well. Well they are closer to 17 or 18 and can carry on pretty much as a funcitoning adult. As I said in my post, if you are talking to an avatar is 15 years old in RL and you can't tell by interacting with them, then more power to them. What I think most of us are refering to is the opening of the flood gates to kids...13 or 14 year old script kiddies who think lagging a sim is fun. or finding ways to crash mature events just because they think its funny to see adult words smeared across the screen.
Currently, if I can't tell your age by chatting with you then ignorance is bliss. But we don't need to invite them unless they are kept seperate so that the liability doesn't fall upon our shoulders.
Definatly not argueing with you eggy.

Secks Saito

I also just want to add my agreement to NOT allow kids in, (Under 1.

There should be adult only venues. I enjoy SL and continue my membership here because it is purported to be adult 18 +.

If they must allow children in to expand their client base, then create a separate grid.

*Wonders if raising the mandatory age to play SL to 21 would work.*






*Runs, ducks, and covers.*

I have to add I sent a private message to Robin regarding this post. She said the following in her reply:

"I believe Philip was just expressing this wish, not announcing a plan, and will ask him to confirm."

LINDENS PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE OUR COLLECTIVE VOICE!
NO KIDS! NO WAY!

I for one will be very disappointed if Philip does not reply. I really hope he is not trying to ignore this thread.

I'm pretty sure they're ignoring this thread on purpose.

As for reasons of us being shallow Eggy, we're here to protect the kids, not defy them. That's why theres such fierce resistance as to letting them in or not. I personally am not fond of children in anyshape or form, however, I was once one, as we all were. I'm pretty sure we all know what can and will happen to SL if this occurs. This is like saying, would you like to allow your minor to start viewing adult content? It's the same exact thing. Of course, a lot of it isn't really adult, but a LOT of it is. Having the Lindens have that liability is something I don't want them to have.

A separate grid is not logical either. Linden Labs would have to hire an entire new staff, if they wish to police that grid well. Also, if the kids suddenly realized they were in a kid only world, and KNEW of an adult world, they would more than likely be even more tempted to get in. So just keeping them out in the first place would cause less headaches.

I don't have anything against the under 18 crowd, Eggy...but you may start caring about them being here. It takes 1 minor exposed to pornographic material to start a lawsuit...and bring SL down for the count.

If you've ever been to a kid friendly MMORPG or online chat, you'll find there are *tight* restrictions on what can be done. On Toontown Online, you can't even chat...you can only say a limited number of phrases, unless you go through a complicated handshaking of codes. The reason? Disney doesn't want to have even one predator come abuse Young Billy, and have his parents sue for aiding and abetting the violation of their beloved child.

If there's going to be Mature themes in SL, then LL needs to be strict in its age policy...or they will be vulnerable to the overzealous. The burden of protecting children from adult material sadly lies with the provider of the material, not the guardian of the child.

Bottom Line....No Under 18 on Second Life. Sure, there might be a lot of mature 17 year olds out there. As long as we are responsible for protecting the innocence of minors, however, we have to be as least somewhat arbitrary in who gets to do what.

Kids in SL?

First, go spend a few days in 'Habbo Hotel'. Link Here

Then return here, and question your motives.

This is a good way to discover just how good/bad of an idea this is. This merely shows the social aspect, but really, this topic alone is agonizing. ;D

I won't give a clear positive or negative. This is your quest, grasshoppah!

Well just as I suspected, just ignore this thread till it dies is what happened. So people, I guess you have your answer.

Yesterday at 18:31:

Today at 12:45:


Uh, yes. A somewhat authoritative answer, with the qualification of "I'll find out for sure".

This thread reminds me of why I keep promising myself I won't get involved in any message boards. It's so rife with conspiracy theorists and people who assume the worst, people who just come looking for something to get upset about, that it is difficult to weed out the rational discussion.

Assuming the quote above actually is from Robin, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, it just seems likely that Philip is acknowledging that some day, somehow, the issue of minors in Second Life will need to be addressed. That doesn't mean that access is going to be given to minors - it was just a matter of throwing out a real issue for discussion. Of course, given the nature of message boards, it must then be extrapolated that the world as we know it is coming to an end, and it's all the fault of Linden Labs.

With tongue planted firmly in cheek,
Chris

I wouldn't let kids in here for a nickel! That being said......people have expressed more concern with their own gaming experience than with the potential negative effects upon the CHILDREN themselves. I find this to be very sad. This game is far too adult for children. I don't participate in that side of things, and kids should not be give the opportunity of being exposed to those things at all. If they want to release a PC version where the child plays a simulcrum on his own pc and NOT online, but can still learn to make outfits (make the underwear a permanent part of the avatar), build, etc., that would be cool.

While the idea of a seperate sim seems appealing, there are always hacking issues. As to a seperate version for children only, while it at first seems appealing, it will only mark the territory for predators to get in, just as they hang around playgrounds.

As a parenty myself, I have to say that letting children into SL is a VERY VERY BAD IDEA.
I come to SL to get away from the realities of RL. Why would I want to spend hours explaining everything to my children in SL.
I know what I do in here and there is no way in Hell that I would want my children exposed to that sort of stuff. Not that what I do is bad, but the areas that I tend to hang out in are definately not places I would want my children to be.
I say leave well enough alone. If it ain't broke don't fix it. (Granted there is a lot in SL that needs to be fixed but adding kids isn't one of them.)

Ok that said, back to my normal boring life till the end of the work day when I can kick back and enjoy my CHILD FREE SL.

Umm last time I checked SL is any thing but child free... yes I know it's supposed to be 18+ & everyone keeps trying to pretend it's... well I can tell you it's not! Kids are here now & there's a lot more of them than you think. What should LL do?

A. Keep letting minors sneak in with thier parents CC. Let minors be exposed to all mature content & interact with adult residents.

B. Add a seperate grid for underage children. Allow minors to atleast legally (for lack of a better word) use SL, be with users of thier own age range & provide basically the same SL tools for them to use.

If we did not live in such a litigious society we would have more options than just A or B. For some reason, there are a lot of parents out there that think it's everyone elses job to raise their kids, hence the rapidly dissappearing events and havens for adults.

I guess if A and B are my only choices, I choose A because it puts the responsibility for monitoring the child back onto the parent and it's my opinion that LL has already over extended their resources supporting SL as it presently stands, let alone, having to set up and support an entirely new game.

Perhaps they have an interested investor willing to infuse capital into the business if they extend the game to children? If so, then B really is the only other viable option without completely killing off the SL world as it is now.