Second Accounts and Ethics

She did eventually find First Land for Coco. She just had a hard time doing so because there was none available for a long time while she was looking.

I never actually called you unethical myself. Though I do believe it is wrong to purchase First Land with alts when your main self has already had the opportunity to participate in the First Land program.

Exactly.

I'm sorry, but this grabbed me...WTF???

So, I can go and kill my neighbor...cuz anyone else can do it...right?

I don't think buying first land with an alt is wrong at all and I would if I could.
But that statement ruffles my feathers!

So, I know you didn't really mean it like it sounded...did you?

Can't be bothered to read all of this thread.

As far as I'm concerned, if you pay the fee for the account you can do whatever you want with it that you could on a regular account. There's nothing unethical about using a service provided to you at a monthly cost to it's fullest extent.

Liz, where do you live that everyone else is allowed to kill thier neighbors? I need to live there.

Ok then since this is her second first land purchase that is different i guess. But Gabe brings up a good point that the Lindens need to clarify this first land issue. With that said I don't believe her intent is to rob the system(I could be wrong) but what do I know anyways I am just a noob. lol

And what's the policy on asshat supervisors? I might be interested...

Yes. A clarification beyond what is already listed (which states that First Land is for those who have never owned land before) would be good.

And no. I don't think Coco had ill motives when she bought this land with an alt. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on that part. Where she states she did not realize anything would be wrong with doing so.

I just think it is wrong, and the Lindens need to clarify further what the First Land program is supposed to be about. Because obviously some do not understand the intent behind the program.

First Land is not part of the features of a premium account - it is not included in the monthly cost. You can't buy a plot of land for $512L each month. It is a one time thing for a new user to help them get their first plot of land (hence the name), since new players generally have lmited resources and are new to buying land.

Why don't they just ammend the TOS to read "First land is not to be bought by Coco's alts"?

Maybe you should have titled this thread "Second Accounts and Rules" so that everyone could smile and pat you on the back.

I asked in hotline to Linden.

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Hopefully they will comment.

I have a feeling we will be told it's not against any rules. For me personally, I wouldn't do it. Even though it appears there is no hard and fast rule aginst it, it's plainly obvious to me that it's for newbies.

It used to be called Land for the Landless, and alts were not allowed to utilize it then. I would like to know why that's changed. I suspect the Linden answer will be, "We can't know for sure that they aren't different people's accounts from one household." (thereby providing the unpleasant but unavoidable loophole for alts to take advantage of it again). That still doesn't make it ethically ok in my mind, as I perceive First Land to be for newbies just starting out in SL, not established players to score cheap land to increase their estate size or resell at a hefty markup.

Correction:

I started in February.

I didn't LOOK for First Land till 3-4 months later. When Coco looked for first land, there WAS NONE. There was only some First Land late at night for a few hours twice.

When I finally did find some in Mature, I bought it so fast your head would spin, and there were others - including the girl next door to me who had just bought that First Land- who would have. She was probably busy making an alt to buy that very spot.

When I stated on the forums happily how I had finally first one, and told the story in the paragraph above, some of these VERY SAME PEOPLE on THIS thread accused me of being nasty by buying that land out from under her. As it turned out, she and I made a deal to sell to each other if we ever sold, and she sold a week later, and IM'd me so I'd get first chance to it.

What I objected to at the time was the use of MANY alts, which people had said was going on, to buy up all the First Land, to resell. I was not objecting to anybody buying it for their real second account, or third, or fourth, or fifth.

I was NOT aware that there was any sort of unspoken rule that having your actual alts get First Land was any kind of a no-no.

And FWIW, this land next to mine that Strawbearry bought is not exactly desirable or premium. It's all out in the middle of a big field. There is no other First Land near it. It was ALREADY First Land once, when the Lindens first released it. There's me on the other side of it, and a tall club behind me, and a white box in another plot next to it that goes to the very edge of the land. On the other side there used to be a giant mall, but now 16k acres are for sale by owner for some huge sum. On the final side is Linden land, a sim which appeared a few weeks ago.

I have no idea how long this little plot of land has been sitting there as First Land. It's a wonder I noticed it night before last! It would take a land scanner to notice it, I guess (if that's how land scanners work), and the person behind the land scanner would probably pass it up.

All that is beside the point, however.

The point is I see nothing unethical in buying First Land with one's alt.

coco

Pardon me, y'all, if the discussion has moved way forward - I'm still on page 8 or something.

Anyway, framing all this as "those of us who care about SL and therefore don't buy First Land with our second account" versus "those who do and obviously don't care about SL" is a ridiculous tactic.

Moreover, I ain't no tourist. Jauani has seen for himself the things I build, but he will be saying with his dying breath that I have never done a thing.

As for "devaluing the Linden" - now that IS a stretch.

coco

Maybe they need to add a don't ask, don't tell section.

You keep leaving out an important part. It is not simply buying First Land with one's alt. It is buy an additional plot of First Land with one's alt. Had you never bought one on your main account, there would be no issue. I am not quite sure why you cannot see how a program set up to help new players get a piece of land for the first time should not be used by an establish player who has already gotten that benefit. For someone who is constantly beating the drum of fairness, that you cannot see how double dipping is unfair is beyond me.

Nothing you just said changes my opinion or any of the points I made.

You asked for our opinions.

I think it's unethical no matter what the reasoning or intended use is, resale, increased land holdings, or llama herding, because I think it's for bonafide newbies. You are only able to do it due to a side effect of LL having to err in favor of the possibilty of actual multiple people from one household playing SL. I really, really doubt that they are thrilled at this prospect, but it's a necessary evil. Which is why this whole thing really boils down to ethics.

Jack - I was unable to buy First Land with Coco for a number of weeks, due to the shortage then.

I then bought First Land with her.

When I created Strawbearry, I looked for First Land for her. (Actually, I wasn't looking, so much as looking at the Linden land next to Coco's to become First Land.)

Two night's ago I happened to notice that the person next to me must have abandoned their land, because it was now labeled First Land. I got Strawbearry on and bought it as her First Land.

So I have bought First Land twice.

With my two accounts.

coco

But its not an alt! It's a second account!

correction:
the point is you are participating in the devaluation of the L$ and the game economy (as is your right as provided to you by LL).

All right Nolan. I should have said, "I did not ORIGINALLY frame this as an ethical discussion."

And the reason I didn't, Nolan, was I didn't have any idea it was unethical whatsoever to buy First Land with EVERY actual new account you get and intend to use as accounts are intended to be used.

coco

Good. I'd like LL to give us a definitive statement on this.

As far as the ethical question is concerned, that's best left to a personal choice as to what's right.

I would say this, however.

While it is true that SL is a larger community, some people are not interested in that aspect. They pay their money and want to enjoy it as _they_ see fit (within the rules). They don't have to hew to someone else's idea of what SL is or isn't. I don't see anyone saying that in this thread, FWIW.

Coco, you know I love you, but for the love of <deity> don't give people ammunition by posting a thread like this.

LL cannot identify if two accounts on one credit card belong to the same person. There are households that play SL, and each individual person deserves the First Land opportunity.

Due to this fact, LL cannot create or enforce any "rule" about alts picking up First Land for the second, third, fourth, or fifth time.

You are smart enough to understand this.

You are gaming the system.

This sounds like a job for the MJW.

First Land is a feature of premium accounts, a one time feature of ANY premium account to get a plot of small land cheap. That's the facts as it is, it's a feature of ANY premium account to get that one shot, one off deal, as part of their premium account package, regardless of it being an alt or not. That's the pure, hard, cold reality until the Lindens decide to change this.

If someone pays the $10 a month, for god knows how long, for a premium alt account, I certainly wouldn't expect them not to pick up a plot of First Land on that account. They paid for the account, First Land is part of the package deal (wether people feel it should be or not is irrelevant until it factually gets changed) and I don't expect them to get less bang for their buck than someone else gets for their $10 a month, regardless of wether that tenner is the only tenner they pay, or an additional one.

Now, when it gets unethical is if people start making short lived premium accounts that are basically one off deals, to buy First Land, then pass the land to the landshark main account, cancel the "premium account" (which really is only a basic account if you only pay $10 once) only to resell the First Land that was meant for newbies and people who use alt accounts responsibly and provide Linden Lab with steady income with their premium accounts.

But if I make a second premium account, and stand to have it active for two years for $240 revenue to LL, everyone can go to hell, I will buy that plot of First Land, because my tenner isn't inferior to anyone else's tenner.

EDIT: And yes I will merrily flip off anyone who implies that my 10 bucks a month should get less bang than anyone else's. Not that I have an alt account, but in such a case, yes. People would get flipped off.

I didn't have a referral bonus, if you mean did I refer myself to myself, no. But I'm sure lots of people do.

coco