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Second Accounts and Ethics

Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-29-2005 09:34
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
Which reminds me, no one has answered my question whether making a third alt to form a group is also unethical?


No, *this* is not unethical. Because you forming a group with yourself only (including your alts) does not affect anyone else. Now, there are certain things you could do with that group that could be considered wrong. But simply making a group like this is not. And, many have to do it in order to be able to buy deeded land. It used to be that you could make an unlimited number of alts on one credit card. That got abused, and they lowered it to 5. Though I've heard rumor it is now only 3 per credit card. I could understand the 3 being allowed. As 3 is the magic number to form a group.
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-29-2005 09:35
From: DogSpot Boxer
This is exactly the kind of post that keeps the bullsh*t going.

What purpose does it serve, except to satisfy whatever need to have to poke at Coco?


I call it cutting through the bullshit excuse that people have to be told explicitly what NOT to do in order to know right from wrong. I also call it pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. Don't like it? Use the Ignore button.
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Little Rebel Designs
Gallinas
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-29-2005 09:35
From: Cienna Samiam
Don't bother, Enabran. That one can't ask a question that doesn't serve as a platform for jumping into some form or argument. Just look at the follow-up to see the truth in this.


The truth I see is that some posters here get sh*t for almost anything they post. All too often posts become about the submitter instead of about the topic.

:mad:
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-29-2005 09:36
Why won't anyone tell me if Cocoanut Koala has been suspended? :(

It's a legitimate question. Particularly given this ALTercation.
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
09-29-2005 09:36
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
The TOS doesn't prohibit buying First Land with your alts, if that's what you mean, DogSpot.

coco


The TOS doesn't prohibit someone from acting like a dick either. I have managed to find a lot of people here who don't act like dicks though.

Very odd.
_____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media



"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
09-29-2005 09:36
From: Enabran Templar
Is there a reason you're not posting as Cocoanut Koala? Has that account been suspended?

Anyway, it's funny to hear you lament paranoia, as you have been a fountain of paranoia since what's-his-name left. Every last person who ever succeeds in Second Life or has some solid PR skills is being groomed and polished by the Lindens and presented at the expense of all others, so sayeth Cocoanut. None may succeed at all without the blessing of the Lindens, as they hold the keys to the gates of stardom and they're only letting in their favorite little bunnies!

But now everyone else is causing paranoia? Aye, reversals of position indeed

No matter how I try to stop participating in the forums, these stunning examples of contradictory or even hypocritical behavior always serve to lure me back into the fray.

And that doesn't even begin to get back to addressing the wild hypocrisy of this Champion of the Little Guy getting down on an alt-stravaganza First Land Buffet.

The reason I'm posting as Strawbearry is I got on as her two nights ago to make sure my First Land purchase had gone through.

I think kept posting as her the next day, not realizing I hadn't switched back. Eboni then said "One alt identified," or something like that, implying I was keeping her hidden

I explained that it was because of the First Land.

Then Eboni and Cristiano started ragging me for being unethical to do that with my alt. Pendari was also saying it shouldn't be done.

The idea of this being unethical was completely a surprise to me.

Your entire paragraph above saying what I supposedly think is not what I actually think.

The paranoia comes in where people start coming up with all kinds of other motives and plots when all I actually did was accidentally post on Strawbearry, and mention that I had got First Land right next door to Coco, which I thought was pretty terrific and STILL do.

Until I hear otherwise from the Lindens, I will consider buying first land with one's (real) second account (or third, fourth, or fifth - cause that's how many they allow you) to be not only legal, but perfectly ethical.

coco
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
09-29-2005 09:37
From: DogSpot Boxer
That's nowhere near definitive.

LL needs to specifically address the issue of alts and first land.

It doesn't say one per account, and uses the word "you".

At any rate, it's going to be like I said. It is allowed, because (hammering again) they can't determine who is really on the other end of that account. Which again, is why this boils down to ethics, which is what we were asked for our opinions on in the very first post. Why were we asked? I have no fucking clue, because Coco had already made up her mind, and now here we are again, in an unnecessary, really redundant loop (stealing that phrase from Torley) again, which I predicted on the first page. All of this could have been avoided had Coco just asked the Hotline, but no, this is apparently more fun, and now the people who she asked opinions of who disagree with her opinion will be blamed for the recursive nature of the thread.

head asplode.
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
09-29-2005 09:37
From: DogSpot Boxer
The truth I see is that some posters here get sh*t for almost anything they post. All too often posts become about the submitter instead of about the topic.

:mad:

For god sake do you really mean this ?
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From: Khamon Fate
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Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
09-29-2005 09:38
From: Pendari Lorentz
Bah. I seriously wish you would read posts directed to you. It is only respectful considering I take the time to read your posts.

Let me repost what I stated a few posts back:



Though in all fairness. I did mention in the other thread (before the others) that I saw what you stated and I said I thought it was against First Land Policies.

Pendari, I am behind in my reading, and responding as I go along. Which goes along faster than I can respond anyway. I have since ammended how I refer to your input in that other thread.

coco
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-29-2005 09:38
From: Jonquille Noir
I call it cutting through the bullshit excuse that people have to be told explicitly what NOT to do in order to know right from wrong. I also call it pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. Don't like it? Use the Ignore button.


Spin it as you like.

But the motives are transparent.

Don't like it? Perhaps you can make a grand public gesture of putting me on ignore.
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Our Motto:

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Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-29-2005 09:38
From: Jonquille Noir
I call it cutting through the bullshit excuse that people have to be told explicitly what NOT to do in order to know right from wrong. I also call it pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. Don't like it? Use the Ignore button.


Heh. Well said. She won't of course. Mistaking shitty for witty, she seems intent upon riding the coat-tails of others to the spotlight.

It is amusing how much people reveal about themselves simply by who and what they stick up for, isn't it?
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Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
09-29-2005 09:39
From: Pendari Lorentz
As 3 is the magic number


(Sorry, couldn't resist :cool: )

This informative Forum discussion is brought to you by the Number 3 and Schoolhouse Rock...

Three is a magic number,
Yes it is, it's a magic number.
Somewhere in the ancient, mystic trinity
You get three as a magic number.

The past and the present and the future.
Faith and Hope and Charity,
The heart and the brain and the body
Give you three as a magic number.

It takes three legs to make a tri-pod
Or to make a table stand.
It takes three wheels to make a ve-hicle
Called a tricycle.

Every triangle has three corners,
Every triangle has three sides,
No more, no less.
You don't have to guess.
When it's three you can see
It's a magic number.

A man and a woman had a little baby,
Yes, they did.
They had three in the family,
And that's a magic number.

3-6-9, 12-15-18, 21-24-27, 30.
3-6-9, 12-15-18, 21-24-27, 30.
Multiply backwards from three times ten:

Three time ten is (30), three times nine is (27),
Three times eight is (24), three times seven is (21),
Three times six is (18), three times five is (15),
Three times four is twelve,
And three times three is nine, and three times two is six,
And three times one is three of course.

Now take the pattern once more:
Three! . . .3-6-9
Twelve! . . .12-15-18
Twenty-one!. . .21-24-27. . .30

Now multiply from 10 backwards:
Three time ten is (30 - Keep going), three times nine is (27),
Three times eight is (24), three times seven is (21),
Three times six is (18), three times five is (15),
Three times four is twelve,
And three times three is nine, and three times two is six,
And three times one...
What is it?!
Three!
Yeah, That's a magic number.

A man and a woman had a little baby.
Yes, they did.
They had three in the family.
That's a magic number.
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go to Nocturnal Threads :mad:
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
09-29-2005 09:39
From: pandastrong Fairplay
Hey Coco, how many residents are you? I know you have at least two accounts. But how many residents are you of Second Life?

I consider myself one resident, with two parts, that I refer to as "her". LL considers me two residents, for the purposes of reporting subscription numbers. I am two of those 55k people you see mentioned on the first page of this web site.

coco
Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-29-2005 09:40
From: Nolan Nash
At any rate, it's going to be like I said. It is allowed, because (hammering again) they can't determine who is really on the other end of that account. Which again, is why this boils down to ethics

And ethics aren't going to stop the guy in line ahead of you to get his extra popcorn twice, and if that happened in real life any reasonable individual would want their extra popcorn twice as well.

Ethics can't solve this problem, because the Lindens keep giving everyone extra helpings of popcorn wether they like it or not, and if you don't like it and don't eat the extra popcorn, then you've effectively paid more money for less, which in real life would make people boggle.

I really like this popcorn analogy, can ya tell?
pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
09-29-2005 09:40
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
I consider myself one resident, with two parts, that I refer to as "her". LL considers me two residents, for the purposes of reporting subscription numbers. I am two of those 55k people you see mentioned on the first page of this web site.

coco


Wait, can you define what "is" is?
_____________________
"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media



"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-29-2005 09:41
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
Until I hear otherwise from the Lindens, I will consider buying first land with one's (real) second account (or third, fourth, or fifth - cause that's how many they allow you) to be not only legal, but perfectly ethical.


You absolutely will. I would expect nothing less from you. :)
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
09-29-2005 09:41
From: DogSpot Boxer
Spin it as you like.

But the motives are transparent.

Don't like it? Perhaps you can make a grand public gesture of putting me on ignore.


Right, because I've done that so many times before. I'm sure you won't have trouble finding one instance of it.
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Gallinas
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
09-29-2005 09:41
From: Enabran Templar
Hey, man. Get this.

I just took all the pens from the supply closet.

ALL of them.

The pens are for the use of everyone here. And that includes me.

And I need to use all of them.

Hey. There's no rule that says I can't!

There is a rule that says you can't. Usually it is in writing. Where it is not, it is well understood by everybody.

In this case, neither of those is true - no rule, and no rule well understood by everybody.

coco
Cienna Samiam
Bah.
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,316
09-29-2005 09:43
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
The idea of this being unethical was completely a surprise to me.


Unsurprisingly, you do seem to think things ok for yourself that you condemn others for doing. It can't have been that much of a surprise, since you were railing against others doing it shortly before you decided to do it yourself, hypocrite.

From: Strawbearry Shortbread
Until I hear otherwise from the Lindens, I will consider buying first land with one's (real) second account (or third, fourth, or fifth - cause that's how many they allow you) to be not only legal, but perfectly ethical.


No worries. It isn't like I didn't think you a shifty, lying, hypocritical, unethical, self-aggrandizing moron before you did this.

Thanks for id'ing the alt. I'll save myself the yawns and ignore you now.
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Just remember, they only care about you when you're buying sims.
Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
09-29-2005 09:43
From: Emma Soyinka

Ethics can't solve this problem, because the Lindens keep giving everyone extra helpings of popcorn wether they like it or not, and if you don't like it and don't eat the extra popcorn, then you've effectively paid more money for less,[IMG]which in real life would make people boggle.

I really like this popcorn analogy, can ya tell?

MMM not really Emma. You have to pay another 9.95 a month to get the second account to buy the First land. So you are paying more. i.e.$20.00 a month.
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '

From: Khamon Fate
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible.

Bikers have more fun than people !
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
09-29-2005 09:43
From: Emma Soyinka
But apparantly I'm the only one who doesn't like paying more for less.


Two premium accounts, each holding 512m of land=$19.90/month (cheaper if paid quarterly/yearly)

One premium account, holding 1024m of land=$14.95/month (again, cheaper if paid quarterly/yearly).

Apparently, some people do like paying more.
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Cristiano


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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
09-29-2005 09:44
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
There is a rule that says you can't. Usually it is in writing. Where it is not, it is well understood by everybody.

In this case, neither of those is true - no rule, and no rule well understood by everybody.


Ahh. I see. So if something is understood by a group of people, that's what counts, then? Is that what it is now? Implicit rules are okay, as long as "everyone" understands them. Yes, I see.

Everyone but the chronic contrarians and Prokofy's hedonists seems to understand this rule.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-29-2005 09:44
From: Lecktor Hannibal
For god sake do you really mean this ?


What I mean is that it _seems_ to me, that some posters get more than their fair share of sh*t here.

Earned or not, it's pretty ugly.

FWIW, I'm not immune to it either.
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Our Motto:

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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
09-29-2005 09:45
I will applaud you though strawberryflavoredcocoanuts for killing the GOM panic. Brava!!
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '

From: Khamon Fate
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible.

Bikers have more fun than people !
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-29-2005 09:46
From: Jonquille Noir
Right, because I've done that so many times before. I'm sure you won't have trouble finding one instance of it.


Ok, I retract the "transparent" comment.

But there is no good purpose served by piling on.
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