Second Accounts and Ethics

Hiya, this here
<-----------
is my alt.

I got this alt so I could test buying things that I have made and packaged for sale.

I mentioned that I was on this alt on account of I had her on the forums last night to make sure her purchase of First Land, right next to my land, went through. This First Land showed up next to my own land, probably because whoever had had that plot must have abandoned it or something, so I got my alt on and bought it.

Then I was told I was unethical for doing this, by Cristiano and Eboni. That I was gaming the system. That it was "beneath me" to do this. That it was against the rules, and against the spirit of First Land.

I figured that if I purchase a second account, which I intend to keep, and buy First Land with it that I intend the second account to stay on, that I have done nothing wrong and nothing against the rules.

With a basic account, you get only $50 a week and no land. With a premium account, you get $500, plus 512 without having to pay tier, plus the opportunity to buy First Land.

Since I am paying for both accounts every month, I saw nothing wrong with getting First Land with my second account. My alt account bought it with her own money.

Is this is unethical? I don't think it is.

Is this against the rules? I can't find where it says so.

I assumed it was like every other game, where each account you purchase comes with all the privileges of that account.

Now, if a person creates a whole passel of alts, for the sheer purpose of buying up all the first land and selling at a profit to a land dealer, then deleting those alts, I would see a problem with it. But not with actual accounts you intend to keep forever.

Opinions?

coco

So if I have 20 credit cards, I can make 20 accounts?

Let's see... and for each, it costs $72 per year for 500 L$ a week * 52 weeks = 26000 L$ sold at $3.50 = $91 ie a profit of $19 each.

PLUS I'll get to buy First Land -- 512 m2 for each account at $L1 per meter and sell it for lets say $4 per meter.


No wonder there's an assload of Lindens floating around wrecking the economy!

And yes... I say unethical.

Two different questions, indeed.

Is it against the rules - you know, I don't think it is.

Is it unethical? You bet. First land is about giving newbies a shot - and a leg up. You need neither- you're well established.

Frankly I can't see a problem with creating an alt to do just what you did, and since you're paying for it in real money why not make some lindens with it as well?

Well, Simple, you can't very well refuse the $500 that you get with a second account, so I don't see how that plays into any question of ethics. Unless you're saying it's unethical to have more than one account.

coco

Do you use it to post comments or videos that you don't want to have associated your bad self?

By your logic, Coco (why are you using an alt to post?), you should have no problem with people getting five first lands as long as they plan on keeping (not deleting - as per your definition) five alt accounts. How is that fair?

By the way - why didn't you put this in Hotline? I think that you must realize, given that you are being disagreed with in world on this issue, that dragging the debate from in world to the forums is pretty much an invitation for a flaming thread?

Well, first off, it never SAYS that anywhere. It never says, "Please don't buy first land with your second account."

Second off, I would have bought it from the person whose land it had been if they had wanted to sell it to me. Apparently they just gave it back to the game, or failed to pay tier on it or something.

In fact, I did buy a large plot from Garnet on the other side of me.

But all that is really beside the point.

If people are going to make people feel bad for buying First Land with their second account - if it is some sort of unspoken rule or something - then it should SAY so somewhere. Something to the effect that: "Of course, we expect you to buy First Land only with your first account, and never with a subsequent account." Even if it is sitting there right next to yours and you have an alt with the right to buy it.

Or better yet - make it IMPOSSIBLE for a person to buy First Land with their second account.

coco

It is unethical to get 2 discounted plots of land. First land is intended for new users, you are not a new user but someone who is clearly just taking advantage of the system to benefit yourself.


If a real new member posted a thread today saying, "There is no first land, what am I to do?!?!" What will your response be? "Let them eat cake?"


Just beause something is not against the rules, does not mean that it is not unethical. You have broken the spirit in which First Land is intended to be used, and that is to provide a leg up to new members. Since you are always making yourself out to be an advocate for new members, this reflects upon you poorly.

I am posting on my alt because, as I explained, I had gotten on here with it last night to make sure my First Land purchase went through.

And yes, by my logic. I have no problem with people getting five first lands as long as they plan on not deleting. It's fair just like it was fair to have more than one account in TSO and get all the perks that go along with that.

I wasn't disagreed with in world on this issue, and I didn't drag the debate from inworld to the forums as an invitation to a flaming thread. What makes you think that?

I mentioned it as an aside in another forum, in a thread about GOM, when someone was surprised to see it was me, and Eboni acted like I was hiding or something, and now this alt was outed. I then explained about buying the First Land with it last night. That is when the conversation turned to my lack of ethics.

And what makes you think it will turn into a flaming thread? We haven't read all the responses yet, have we?

coco

I always thought it was against the first land policies myself. I'm planning to try and get this clarified.

If it is *not* a policy, I will argue to make it so. Because, as others have stated already, this land is supposed to be for people who are brand new to SL to have a way to buy cheap land and get a start up piece of property.

I had to create an alt (even though I hated doing so) in order to make a group for my land to be deeded in Neualt. It is unfortunatly the only way to do land deeds these days.

I would personally feel like a heel if I went and used that alt to buy first land (and I'm *NOT* a rich oldbie). I would never even *think* of doing so. That land should be for our up and coming. How dare I even entertain the idea of taking that chance from them.

Of course, all this stated. I do not fault those who just do not know the implications of this. But it does make me now understand why so very many new people are constantly in the forums asking why there is no "first land" available.

Yes. This is an issue I'll be bringing up again soon.

No, lol. Never would.

coco

Money trees only give money to new players. However, you can use an alt to go in and get money from a money tree as well. Nowhere does it say "don't do this", you just can clearly see that is not the right thing to do. Well, I would hope you could see that. A program that is intended to provide discounted land for new players with a limited income who have never owned land should not in any way be used by established players who can easily afford to buy land at market prices, and have already purchased first land in the past. Whether there is one plot available or 1,000 doesn't change the ethics of it. That you have to explicitly be told why this is wrong to do is beyond me.

I was one of those, griping about first land, when Cocoanut became a premium member and was looking for some. There wasn't any for WEEKS, then it would be only for a few hours before it was gone.

With Strawbearry, though, there has been plenty of first land, but she has been choosy. So when that one popped up next to me, I had her buy it.

coco

A few days ago you said you were leaving forums and now you are posting under and alt, it just seems odd.

Yes, I guess that would seem that way, Eboni. What I meant was I was leaving the forums. Lol. As in General forum. But in about five minutes, I decided I was just leaving that particular type of discussion.

coco

If everyone makes alts and takes first land, there won't be plenty. This excuse is invalid.

Without your second part of this statement. Just picture how you felt during *this* time Coco. And now at least we know why that was the case. The only reason you probably got lucky today is because the land traders are busy dealing with the GOM closing issues. At least, that would be my first thought?

and you spelled "strawberry" wrong too!

It's not an EXCUSE. It's the way I view it.

I'm thinking that maybe there was something going on when the game was new that made this "common knowledge" that if you used your second account to avail yourself of the second account privileges you were pond scum.

So if this is something we are all supposed to know, LL better make it clear now.

But I doubt if this is their intention. What do they want? More accounts! How can they provide first land for them? By releasing it! How DO they provide first land for them? By releasing it!

If a person wants to buy a second account, he will think, hmmm....$500 a week, plus I can own land, plus I can get First Land. And I think a sign-on bonus. Well, okay!

If it's not that way, they should say so.

coco

P.S. haha yeah - it was supposed to be Strawbeary, with one R. But I goofed up in the process somewhere and quit, but the program still counted that name as taken forever and I had to put in the extra R. (They should fix that. Who knows how many good names have been ruined forever that way?) But in this case - unlike Cocoanut - I was intending the mispelling. I had a bear in TSO named Strawbeary, and I'm looking for a free avatar somewhere to make Strawbearry a bear.

And when I made Strawbeary in TSO, she also got all the perks of being a new, paying account, despite the fact that she was actually me.

If this isn't the case, where do I turn in my $500 a week that Strawbearry gets? And how much was that sign-on bonus, and who should I send it to?

Actually, I had always assumed that this is how all the land barons got their start in the land business many moons ago. Baron A gets a bunch of alts, calls themself "Group A" gets a bunch of First land and then off they go into their first step into the real estate business.

Im sure that must be a bad assumption on my part. Apologies to all the land barons out there for thinking that.

I agree! And in about a week, when the GOM issue has died at least a tad.. hehe.. I'll be bringing this issue up to the Lindens. I don't want this issue clouded though. It deserves its own space.

Then won't you have to take it the whole way?

Why should their second account get the sign-on bonus?

Why should their second account get $500 a week?

Why should their second account get 512 tier-free?

coco

Guess you shouldn't have asked if you weren't willing to hear the answers that failed to agree with you, eh?

In response to your response: Ethics is rarely about what's written in the rules. As I mentioned, I belive nothing in the rules expressly forbids the buying of first land with an alt account. Probably to allow people living together to each get thier fair shot at first land.

However... what you did is likely outside the intent for first land. You've reduced the available first land pool, enriching yourself at the cost of someone who needs the leg up having to wait for the next round of first land releases.

But ethics is just about opinion, innit?

hehe.. you really don't want me to answer that.