Second Accounts and Ethics
|
|
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
|
09-28-2005 17:30
From: Strawbearry Shortbread I am posting on my alt because, as I explained, I had gotten on here with it last night to make sure my First Land purchase went through.
And yes, by my logic. I have no problem with people getting five first lands as long as they plan on not deleting. It's fair just like it was fair to have more than one account in TSO and get all the perks that go along with that.
I wasn't disagreed with in world on this issue, and I didn't drag the debate from inworld to the forums as an invitation to a flaming thread. What makes you think that?
I mentioned it as an aside in another forum, in a thread about GOM, when someone was surprised to see it was me, and Eboni acted like I was hiding or something, and now this alt was outed. I then explained about buying the First Land with it last night. That is when the conversation turned to my lack of ethics.
And what makes you think it will turn into a flaming thread? We haven't read all the responses yet, have we?
coco Sorry, I guess I assumed that it was coming from an in world convo. I was told about the debate in a non LL IM, and asked for my opinion on the ethics of it, but not told where the debate was taking place. My apologies, and can you provide me with a link to the original debate? I do not agree with you however, that it's ethical, especially in light of threads like this one, in which newbies are complaining about a lack of first land. This is not TSO, and TSO had no such program. Had they, I would have said that it was unethical for people to take advantage of the system in this manner there as well. The land is for newbies. I am trying to search for official policy on this, but the search function seems to be hanging. Anyone else having this trouble?
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
|
|
Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
|
09-28-2005 17:30
This question was asked before. In fact, coco, yours was the second reply. lemme remind you of what you said in it. From: Cocoanut Koala I noticed that earlier tonight, Roberta! I, too, figured it must be people buying up first land as alts. I didn't realize it was against the rules (and I have not done it), but I suppose it is against the rules by sheer virtue of the whole principle of "First Land." I figured they were cracking down cause maybe a lot of people had gotten extra alts during the free trial and were using them to pick up extra first land.
In any case, this means there will be more First Land available for new players who are really looking for their first bit of land, which hasn't been easy to find.
coco |
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:31
From: Pendari Lorentz Without your second part of this statement. Just picture how you felt during *this* time Coco. And now at least we know why that was the case. The only reason you probably got lucky today is because the land traders are busy dealing with the GOM closing issues. At least, that would be my first thought? No! I've been looking with Strawbearry since I made here. There has always been plenty of First Land! coco |
|
Kate Hanks
AFK Queen
Join date: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 337
|
09-28-2005 17:31
I have asked a Linden for clarification for this in the past. I was told that alts may not buy First Land. Or was it should not? I doubt LL has an official policy on this, but I bet if you asked any Linden, you would get the same answer I did.
Is it unethical? I can't really say. But after reading some posts by newbies who have waited days or even weeks to find First Land available, I would hope alts would think twice about scooping up First Land.
|
|
Simple Chaos
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 84
|
09-28-2005 17:32
From the Second Life site re: First Land (emphasis mine):
First Land
Second Life's "First Land" program allows Residents to purchase their first parcel of land below the current market value. Parcels are 512 square meters and sell for L$1 per meter to those who have never owned land. Please note: First Land plots are subject to availability. A snapshot of the available land can be viewed by:
Go into SL and click on the Find button
Select the Land Sales tab
Select "First Land" from the pull-down menu and hit "Search"
When you find a plot you like, teleport to it and buy it on the spot
If this was your first plot - you are forgiven in my book... though based on your posts, I sincerely doubt this was your first plot.
|
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:33
From: Nolan Nash Sorry, I guess I assumed that it was coming from an in world convo. I was told about the debate in a non LL IM, and asked for my opinion on the ethics of it, but not told where the debate was taking place. My apologies, and can you provide me with a link to the original debate? I do not agree with you however, that it's ethical, especially in light of threads like this one, in which newbies are complaining about a lack of first land. This is not TSO, and TSO had no such program. Had they, I would have said that it was unethical for people to take advantage of the system in this manner there as well. The land is for newbies. I am trying to search for official policy on this, but the search function seems to be hanging. Anyone else having this trouble? See, I never thought of it as a sort of charity program or whatever. I thought of it as one of the things you get when you get a premium account. The original thread is in Land, and it is about GOM. I forget which one. As I said before, I was one of those newbies complaining about a lack of First Land. coco |
|
Kate Hanks
AFK Queen
Join date: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 337
|
09-28-2005 17:33
oops, double post
|
|
Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
|
09-28-2005 17:34
From: Nolan Nash I am trying to search for official policy on this, but the search function seems to be hanging. Anyone else having this trouble? Yes. Same here Nolan. You know what a search fiend I am. So I'm going nutz right now because the search is going bonkers. I'm not wanting to mention it to LL though, as I know they have their hands full with this damn GOM issue right now. 
_____________________
*hugs everyone*
|
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:34
From: Jillian Callahan Guess you shouldn't have asked if you weren't willing to hear the answers that failed to agree with you, eh?
In response to your response: Ethics is rarely about what's written in the rules. As I mentioned, I belive nothing in the rules expressly forbids the buying of first land with an alt account. Probably to allow people living together to each get thier fair shot at first land.
However... what you did is likely outside the intent for first land. You've reduced the available first land pool, enriching yourself at the cost of someone who needs the leg up having to wait for the next round of first land releases.
But ethics is just about opinion, innit? What makes you say I'm not willing to hear the answers that fail to agree with me, eh? If it is outside the "intent" of first land, then they should make that clear. coco |
|
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
|
09-28-2005 17:34
From: Strawbearry Shortbread No! I've been looking with Strawbearry since I made here. There has always been plenty of First Land!
coco That's not what you said here, and your ethics seem to have changed with the appearance of this alt: From: Cocoanut Koala I noticed that earlier tonight, Roberta! I, too, figured it must be people buying up first land as alts. I didn't realize it was against the rules (and I have not done it), but I suppose it is against the rules by sheer virtue of the whole principle of "First Land." I figured they were cracking down cause maybe a lot of people had gotten extra alts during the free trial and were using them to pick up extra first land.
In any case, this means there will be more First Land available for new players who are really looking for their first bit of land, which hasn't been easy to find.
coco
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
|
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:35
From: Pendari Lorentz hehe.. you really don't want me to answer that.  Yes I do. coco |
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:37
From: Nolan Nash That's not what you said here, and your ethics seem to have changed with the appearance of this alt: That is correct. When I (Cocoanut) was looking for First Land, there wasn't any! People said that others were creating alts to buy it all up and then sell it at a profit to land dealers, or something like that. The way I see it (and have always seen it), is my second account is a REAL account, with a real future and purpose, and not a throwaway alt to just buy up all the second land. This is an on-going second account, which I intend to pay for on-going, in perpetuity, so she is entitled to her First Land. coco P.S. The "intent" of First Land being for real accounts, whether they are owned by one person or two people in the same household - as opposed to people just creating throwaway accounts for the purpose of buying up all the first land to resell. Do you see what I'm saying? |
|
JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
|
09-28-2005 17:39
I believe it to be unethical but I am sure it happens alot. I had to pay 4k for a 512 plot and Sincere had to pay 8k for 1024 plot because we were unable to find any first land and we didnt want to wait.
|
|
Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
|
09-28-2005 17:39
From: Strawbearry Shortbread No! I've been looking with Strawbearry since I made here. There has always been plenty of First Land!
coco You created that account on 7/13/05, then comment on 7/14/05 on First Land abuse. *snort* LMAO |
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:40
I don't know when or how you've been looking, Jack, but my Strawbearry is about the age of your account, and I have looked to see what is available every day, and every day there has been plenty available.
I do it by putting in 512 and 512 in both the boxes, then all of them come up.
coco
|
|
Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
|
09-28-2005 17:41
From: Strawbearry Shortbread Do you see what I'm saying? Ohh yes, it is crystal clear. |
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:42
From: Eboni Khan You created that account on 7/13/05, then comment on 7/14/05 on First Land abuse. *snort* LMAO I did? In any case, I wasn't referring to Strawbearry. I was talking about Coco, who didn't start out as premium, but became premium, then had a horrible time trying to find First Land for weeks. There was some available - sometimes, for a couple of hours - but it wasn't mature. I wasn't referring to any difficulty with Strawbearry. Things have been good, First Land wise, for several weeks now, I believe. At least for however long I've been looking for her. coco |
|
JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
|
09-28-2005 17:43
we needed to find them all together so we could create group land.
|
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:43
From: Eboni Khan Ohh yes, it is crystal clear. I mean, ME, my new player, my new account, looking for the First Land to which it was entitled. Not somebody creating a bunch of alts to buy it all up before anyone has a chance, then reselling it at a profit. That is what made me mad. Never did I dream it would be considered a crime for me to get First Land one time with each new account I create. coco |
|
Simple Chaos
Registered User
Join date: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 84
|
09-28-2005 17:45
From: Simple Chaos From the Second Life site re: First Land (emphasis mine):
First Land
Second Life's "First Land" program allows Residents to purchase their first parcel of land below the current market value. Parcels are 512 square meters and sell for L$1 per meter to those who have never owned land. Please note: First Land plots are subject to availability. A snapshot of the available land can be viewed by:
Go into SL and click on the Find button
Select the Land Sales tab
Select "First Land" from the pull-down menu and hit "Search"
When you find a plot you like, teleport to it and buy it on the spot
If this was your first plot - you are forgiven in my book... though based on your posts, I sincerely doubt this was your first plot. Apparently no comment on this post? Or is it best to ignore it? |
|
Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
|
09-28-2005 17:47
If your mind is already made up that it's ok - why you asking us? Villification? 
_____________________
The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
|
|
Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
|
09-28-2005 17:48
From: Strawbearry Shortbread
Not somebody creating a bunch of alts to buy it all up before anyone has a chance, then reselling it at a profit.
coco
Are you planning on keeping this land forever? If you do sell later are you planning on selling only at $1L per M2? |
|
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
|
09-28-2005 17:50
"omg alts"
"omg land"
Seriously, coco, dont let the drama queens get to you... they are so repetitive, its quite tiresome.
|
|
Strawbearry Shortbread
Registered User
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 146
|
09-28-2005 17:50
From: Simple Chaos From the Second Life site re: First Land (emphasis mine):
First Land
Second Life's "First Land" program allows Residents to purchase their first parcel of land below the current market value. Parcels are 512 square meters and sell for L$1 per meter to those who have never owned land. Please note: First Land plots are subject to availability. A snapshot of the available land can be viewed by:
Go into SL and click on the Find button
Select the Land Sales tab
Select "First Land" from the pull-down menu and hit "Search"
When you find a plot you like, teleport to it and buy it on the spot
If this was your first plot - you are forgiven in my book... though based on your posts, I sincerely doubt this was your first plot. Sorry, Simple, this was on the bottom of it's page and I didn't see it. I assumed that means what it says! But the difference is, I'm assuming it means for each account that you get. Just like in all other games! No, it is not my first plot. I bought my first 512 with Cocoanut. Then, when the girl next door moved, she offered me hers, which she had bought as first land, and I bought it from her. Then, when the First Land next to me turned into Garnet's property for sale, I bought a large plot with that 1012 or something, with Lindens, from her. Which kinds of brings up - how did she get it? So - I guess you will not forgive me. coco |
|
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
|
09-28-2005 17:50
From: Strawbearry Shortbread That is correct. When I (Cocoanut) was looking for First Land, there wasn't any! People said that others were creating alts to buy it all up and then sell it at a profit to land dealers, or something like that.
The way I see it (and have always seen it), is my second account is a REAL account, with a real future and purpose, and not a throwaway alt to just buy up all the second land. This is an on-going second account, which I intend to pay for on-going, in perpetuity, so she is entitled to her First Land.
coco
P.S. The "intent" of First Land being for real accounts, whether they are owned by one person or two people in the same household - as opposed to people just creating throwaway accounts for the purpose of buying up all the first land to resell.
Do you see what I'm saying? The thread I link is only about 8 weeks old, in which newbies are complaining of a lack of First Land. Gee, I wonder why these shortages crop up now and then? I am just going to say that I agree with the Linden who told Kate that we shouldn't, and point out again, that you said on 7/14/05, that it was against the principle of First Land to use alts to get extra first land, and leave it at that.
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
|
