Abortion: Putting A Face On The Issue

I offered a compromise I wouldn't accept, just to show there are many who will not even be happy with such basic requirements of informing the mother.

Probably a good call. Ok i'll go make out outrageous lies about myself in other threads, and will check in later. Have a super day!

I think everyone should get to see this sort of thing. Not just pregnant mothers, but both girls and boys alike. Starting before puberty and at least yearly after that throughout their school years.


Actually, drinking beer is often a cause of the need for an abortion. Although I think you mean "drink beer legally". Under 18, I do think it would be a good idea for the pregnant woman to find someone over 18 that they choose, who can talk things over with and who will go with them; a friend, a relative or a councilor.

As I said above, I'd like to see this happen years before that.

If the decision is for an abortion, there won't be any requirements to pay child support.

Does it make you feel better thinking he didn't know about ALICE, the program?

okay. I shouldn't be too long, sweetie --I'll come see some of your handiwork soon

I'm talking about seeing the fetus she is carrying, inside her body. Although I agree it should be included in basic biology classes as well.

When I say drinking age, I mean 21, not 18. I would think the parents of that mother would make the decision after seeing the sonogram and waiting a week to consider the ramifications. As it stands now, that would reduce abortion majorly.

As for the father's input, he would have to agree to an abortion before it could be preformed, if he didn't agree, he could seek damages, as it was his fetus as much as it was her's. If you believe the father has no right to damages, then you must feel he isn't responsible for support payments. If it's not his fetus, then he has no responsibility.

data?

there isn't any, but I have a feeling it might increase child abuse majorly. (Kevn, that's a feeling, i.e. an opinion)

Just as there are many who will not even be happy with trusting that a woman's choice and decision is based on soul searching, contemplation, and the support system of her choosing.

It's interesting how you expect everyone to bend to your opinions... but then again, in your mind, your opinions are the only ones that count...

I'm happy to say that these threads have served to strengthen my resolve that a woman has a right to choose and I'll be sending some money to NARAL, CARAL and PLANNED PARENTHOOD today.

I agree --all this would make great sense...































ON GOR!!!!!!!

I have not said only my opinion counts.

Didn't say you said it... said you thunk it...

You read minds? lol

My cat doesn't tell me when he's hungry either.

pssst, you have to spell out very clearly that it seems that he thinks that way, otherwise...

Only those rendered transparant by the use of an alpha channel

/me hangs head in shame! I'm still honing my Kevn-speak skills...

Um, no.

Laws are rooted in cultural norms to be sure, and in some past societies it has been the case that laws were intended to dcodify morality. some very bad laws have done so even in the US-like prohibition. But in general the purpose of law is to maintain order. The law does not say killing is wrong, it says murder is illegal. The law preserves, for example the right of the goverenment to take the lives of citizens (the death penalty). Crimes are not violations agaist a person, but are violations against the state's concept of order (which is why it is the People of California v. Michael Jackson...).

Yes some laws tie into over-arching national interests that seem to reflect social morality, but in closer reveiw one finds that the law does not make moral judgements, it just imposes and certain order on society.

The notion that a foetus does, at some point prior to birth, have basic rights attach to it is not a moral statement about when life begins, but rather is reasoned determination when the legal rights afforded to a person attach. Thus the law does not make a moral judgemetn about when life begins, but rather a legal one when rights attach.

If I assume you only value your own opinion over mine, would that be fair, based on the fact you show no respect for my opinion? Probably, but I do show respect for others opinions, unlike those who claim to be pro-choice. I never seek to ridicule others for their opinions. Look at many of the posts directed at me, not exactly what one would consider respectful disagreement. But I don't complain, unless it's a vicious personal attack. Then I just report it.

I have even said in past threads that even though I disagree with an opinion, I will fight to the death to support your right to believe and say it.

Perhaps this is a difference in opinion about what a moral is? Among my morals, I don't just include ones specific to a religious view, such as avoiding promiscuity. I also include supporting democracy, human rights, and equality under the law.

The problem with things like prohibition is that the law passed didn't conform with a widely held moral. It became unenforceable because people didn't hold it as their own value. Contrast this with the freedom of speech. Most people don't even think of this as a moral value, but it is. It's simply so widely agreed with that its "morality" is hardly ever discussed. This also gives you an indicator of how likely we are to lose it, because it would be lost first as a value people hold to be important.

Laws are a barometer to the shifting morals of the population. They can certainly influence our values, but by the same token any law that doesn't reflect a widely held moral will not be a tool for anything but oppression and defiance. Where this applies to abortion, as demonstrated around the world women are willing to risk becoming criminals rather than face a child with a life they can't provide for properly. In other words these laws are not moral, according to their own sense of values.

I wish I could have an abortion.

Scramble some eggs.

I've tried that, but I want the full saline skin burning effect.

ewww, just ewwww!